Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Edinburgh-4

Old 12th May 2023, 22:51
  #1221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some incredibly negative and dismissive comments about the Hainan Edinburgh-Beijing route resumption. Let’s just see how the route performs. Surely the marketing team at EDI deserve credit for securing this and other new routes. In the bigger picture, the airport is recovering really strongly after the pandemic and having to battle against a really hostile anti aviation SNP/Green coalition Gov. Lots to be positive about in my opinion.
Planeraz is online now  
Old 13th May 2023, 05:43
  #1222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,679
Received 116 Likes on 78 Posts
having to battle against a really hostile anti aviation SNP/Green coalition Gov
What gov actions are impacting the airport?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 13th May 2023, 05:49
  #1223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Any actual numbers? A 51% increase might just move you from very dire to dire!
Shouldn't you be challenging the Original poster who made claims of dire loads.as to their source or info?

​​​​​​

tictack67 is offline  
Old 13th May 2023, 05:56
  #1224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,679
Received 116 Likes on 78 Posts
Both statements are meaningless without context.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 13th May 2023, 06:00
  #1225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CabinCrewe
LOL!
Suspect the historical complex triangle split load routing with DUB makes the extent of ‘dire’ loads might be tricky to tease out.
Seems its essentially a tour operator supported service over a shortish season rather than anything more substantial. Would be interested to hear in due course who would choose to use the service as a scheduled outbound ex EDI. Maybe with dirt cheap give-ways and an empty cabin might be right up frugal backpackers street! Presume therefore minimal impact on the two often cheapest eastbound services with QR and TK.
Going to ask for clarification.

You seem very upset that an Iata/Iaco airline is offering a schedule service with a fare structure bookable by anyone. There's no deep state conspiracy about it (let us know when you find those "dirt cheap giveaways" 🤣

Many routes only operate for some seasons like Majorca or Ski routes.

This should be making Glasgow Airport management very uncomfortable, and they should be explaining why they can't get more routes, perhaps the exclusivity deal they signed with EK has tied them down sadly.

For clarity what would you define as "substantial" if a 5 month, twice weekly service to the Orient, on the longest flight from Edinburgh isn't?

By the way Dublin now has a similar two weekly direct service so they've don't away with the "complex" (?) triangle.
tictack67 is offline  
Old 13th May 2023, 06:18
  #1226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Both statements are meaningless without context.


From CAA
Table 12.1
International Air Passenger Traffic
To and From Reporting Airports for 2019
Comparison with
tictack67 is offline  
Old 13th May 2023, 07:51
  #1227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
What gov actions are impacting the airport?
Two examples for you. Sturgeon refused to engage with the airport/sector about a safe return to travel. Had she got her way, all travel would have been banned and the border shut during the pandemic. The airport/sector would not have recovered. Purely political game playing, to be doing something different from the UK Gov. Current hostility - the anti aviation Greens advocating and demanding many short haul flights are banned.
Planeraz is online now  
Old 15th May 2023, 09:29
  #1228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
UA S23

United updating aircraft type on EDI-IAD route. Previously announced 764 on certain dates in May/June also now showing into July. 764 operating Saturday and Sunday from EDI for all of July. 752 currently showing for August onwards.
Planeraz is online now  
Old 15th May 2023, 23:50
  #1229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tartan 201
Nor from a security one as you'd be mixing passengers screened to two different standards (US and UK).
I note that, according to the post linked to below, there's now a trial underway at DUB where some US-bound passengers are screened only once (at the main security screening point separating landside from airside) rather than the previous situation where US-bound passengers were screened there and again at the USPC facility (connecting passengers still need to be screened at the latter).

Assuming the post to be accurate, presumably this means that the screening at DUB is done to a standard acceptable to both the Irish and US authorities. Should that trial be successful, it may offer a template for EDI's plans to implement a USPC facility that allows US-bound passengers access to the entire terminal.

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopic...ir_Travel.html

tartan 201 is offline  
Old 16th May 2023, 00:00
  #1230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 43
Posts: 1,604
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
US bound passengers already do have access to the whole terminal. It just means once you pass CBP and "enter the USA", you can't mix freely with the rest of the public. I think we're missing something here if this idea is a serious one, it will still require a sterile area that's "US soil" before boarding that you can't leave.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 16th May 2023, 00:52
  #1231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
US bound passengers already do have access to the whole terminal. It just means once you pass CBP and "enter the USA", you can't mix freely with the rest of the public. I think we're missing something here if this idea is a serious one, it will still require a sterile area that's "US soil" before boarding that you can't leave.
Re "US bound passengers already do have access to the whole terminal": yes they do at EDI presently (because there's no USPC) but don't at DUB once they've passed USPC.

EDI's plan, according to the article linked to below, is "to allow passengers to continue to access the whole terminal once they have completed the US checks". So the aim of that is to avoid "a sterile area that's "US soil" before boarding that you can't leave" and allow US-bound passengers to "mix freely with the rest of the public" (i.e. non-US-bound passengers).

https://archive.is/Cq4b3

There's two elements I can see that would make that difficult. The first is that US-bound passengers would be mixing with all other passengers and so to make EDI's plan work, all passengers (irrespective of destination) would presumably need to be security screened to a standard acceptable to the US and UK authorities.

At DUB, that's done by initially screening all departing passengers to Irish standards at the main security screening area, then screening all US-bound passengers to US standards at the USPC facility (after which those passengers can't mix with non-US-bound passengers).

The trial I mentioned seems to allow some US-bound passengers to be screened only once and to a standard acceptable to both authorities. So that trial, should it be successful, would seem to offer a template to meet the aim of EDI's plan.

The second difficulty would be with customs and the potential that, for example, a US-bound passenger satisfactorily completes the USPC checks and then mixes with a non-US-bound passenger who gives the US-bound passenger some additional duty free goods to take with them such that they exceed their personal allowance. I'm not sure how that would be prevented under EDI's plan.

I note, however, that EDI have partnered with Pangiam to develop these plans. Their CEO "served as Acting Secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) where he managed over 240,000 employees and components of multiple security agencies including the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the Coast Guard, and more. His past experiences include implementing innovations to the U.S. international arrival and departure process" and their COO
"held roles at U.S. Customs & Border Protection (CBP), the U.S. Navy, the National Security Staff, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). His most recent experience was at CBP where he oversaw the strategy and expansion of its Preclearance program". So presumably the EDI team are getting some well-founded advice that what they want to do is achievable.

https://pangiam.com/leadership-team/

Last edited by tartan 201; 16th May 2023 at 03:02.
tartan 201 is offline  
Old 16th May 2023, 11:08
  #1232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tartan 201
EDI team are getting some well-founded advice
The same was said about Liz Truss’s consultancy advice… Still, nice publicity to fatten the goose.
CabinCrewe is offline  
Old 16th May 2023, 12:57
  #1233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CabinCrewe
The same was said about Liz Truss’s consultancy advice… Still, nice publicity to fatten the goose.
Wow, Edinburgh really is becoming the Megan Markle of airports, all that bitter jealousy just because, oh I don't know, Airlines want to fly there lol.

Absolutely triggered and I'm loving it


Last edited by tictack67; 16th May 2023 at 13:24.
tictack67 is offline  
Old 16th May 2023, 23:27
  #1234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 43
Posts: 1,604
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Guys, the point has always been that post US CBP you are considered to be on US soil and free to enter the US domestically. There's no major country on Earth that does customs any other way. You're actually conflating two issues here :
1) Security - easy fix if the US "trusts" the DfT level of security, which given they do daily for flights to the US shouldn't be an issue IMHO. Not even sure why the second security check is even needed in DUB. Anyone know?
2) Entering the US and clearing customs before leaving Scotland. Facial recognition doesn't get you round that one.You can't do this then go to Weatherspooons (is there even one? I don't drink and fly!) for a pint with Shug and his new bird. Really.

Sounds like a lot of nice PR fluff and dollars for the lads. Happy to be wrong if someone can explain what we're all missing here.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 17th May 2023, 02:45
  #1235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
Security - easy fix if the US "trusts" the DfT level of security, which given they do daily for flights to the US shouldn't be an issue IMHO. Not even sure why the second security check is even needed in DUB. Anyone know?


It's needed in DUB because when you arrive in the US having used USPC in DUB you come off the airbridge into the airside departure lounge and are free to go direct to the gate of your departing flight (or leave the airport as a domestic passenger if that's your destination). It follows therefore that you have to be security screened in DUB to the same standard as the other passengers you'll be mixing with in the airside lounge of the airport you arrive at in the US. That standard requires that screening is carried out by a Federal Government employee or by personnel of a qualified private screening company subcontracted to the TSA and is currently slightly different to the standard in the UK (e.g. I'm regularly required to take my shoes off going through US security screening but not in the UK).

(Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/44901)


However, if you arrive in the US from the UK (or anywhere without USPC) and are catching a connecting flight then you have to go through TSA security screening on arrival in the US before entering the airside departure lounge. This ensures that you've been screened to the same standard as the other passengers you'll be mixing with (as described above).

A similar situation applies in reverse. If I travel (say) PHL>LHR>EDI I have to clear security at PHL then again at LHR as the DfT require all passengers boarding a flight departing the UK to be screened to their standards.

Note that passing through the USPC facility in DUB doesn't mean that you've legally entered the US, it just means that you're cleared to enter the US. The Irish Government website makes that clear where it says:

The preclearance facility is within Irish jurisdiction and the laws of Ireland apply at all times. US preclearance officers are not considered law enforcement officers. The only law enforcement officers at Irish Airports are An Garda Síochána and Customs Officers.

Eligibility for admission to the US is determined by CBP officials. Ineligibility may be determined on a number of grounds. Travellers avail of the facility of preclearance on a consensual basis. Until their flight departs, passengers remain in Irish legal jurisdiction and have the right to withdraw from the preclearance process at any time.

(Source: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cb...-preclearance/)

So where you say "the point has always been that post US CBP you are considered to be on US soil" I'm not sure that's correct. My understanding from the above would be that once you've passed the USPC then legally you're still on Irish soil but are cleared to enter the US with no further checks when you reach US soil.

Anyway, let's leave it at that and see what, if any, progress is made with this proposal over the next few months.

Last edited by tartan 201; 17th May 2023 at 03:22.
tartan 201 is offline  
Old 17th May 2023, 13:08
  #1236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
March 2023

Some stats and approx load factors for certain routes.

The million pax total exceeded for first time since last October. 1,009,599. Compared to 1,105,751 in March 2019. Total is around approx 92% of last comparable monthly stats.

QR - Doha 19,318 or 95%
TK - Istanbul 8,971 or 90%
UA - Newark 9,539 or 95%
DL - JFK 8,250 or 93%

Qatar continue to perform strongly. The US routes bouncing back nicely following a dip in February. TK also up.

Some stats for other European routes.

Copenhagen - 14,474. Little wonder Norwegian is going double daily 3 x times per week.
Helsinki - 3,027. Finnair up 108% on this time last year.
Paris CDG - AF and EZY - 32,476 up 77% on last year.
Irish Republic routes have performed very strongly.
Dublin - 58,535 up 33%
Cork - 14,246. Up 209%
Stockholm - 4,133 up 664% Scandinavian increasing to daily should boost this further.
Amsterdam - 42,155 up 31% despite KLM reductions.
Oslo - 9,032 up 97%

Last edited by Planeraz; 17th May 2023 at 13:56.
Planeraz is online now  
Old 17th May 2023, 19:25
  #1237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
United S24

According to aero routes and a few other articles, American, Delta and United are already starting to announce aircraft changes for S24. Delta on certain premium European routes swapping out A330’s for the A359. United expect to receive a number of 737 max 10 in 2nd Q of 2024, which will be used on domestic and certain transatlantic routes. I wonder if this will be the way ahead for the EDI routes, given the intention is to retire the 757 fleet?
Planeraz is online now  
Old 17th May 2023, 19:45
  #1238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: GB
Posts: 253
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Planeraz
United S24

According to aero routes and a few other articles, American, Delta and United are already starting to announce aircraft changes for S24. Delta on certain premium European routes swapping out A330’s for the A359. United expect to receive a number of 737 max 10 in 2nd Q of 2024, which will be used on domestic and certain transatlantic routes. I wonder if this will be the way ahead for the EDI routes, given the intention is to retire the 757 fleet?
Believe United will prioritise replacing 757 with MAX 10 domestically for now. They have that giant order of Dreamliners too. I think EDI will move to the 787-8/9 in the coming years rather than MAX10
laviation is offline  
Old 18th May 2023, 14:03
  #1239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Numerous delays today at EDI. Terminal overwhelmed at times. United 978 to Washington pushed back from gate 11. Then didn’t move for 95 mins. Incoming Qatar 788 landed then sat for 45 mins. Presumably he would have been assigned gate 11. A Lufthansa 321 at gate 4 then pushed back as the Qatar was heading in. Further delays. The United 752 then started to move. Lined up to take off. Started to roll then aborted. Flight cancelled. All the other widebody stands were occupied by a Westjet 789, another delayed UA 752 bound for Chicago and a delayed delta 763 to Boston. Just shows what can happen when one wide-body gate is blocked by another aircraft. All of this before the real summer rush starts. Surely a terminal extension of some kind is required to cope with the ever increasing number of arrivals and departures?
Planeraz is online now  
Old 18th May 2023, 14:37
  #1240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 43
Posts: 1,604
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Planeraz
Surely a terminal extension of some kind is required to cope with the ever increasing number of arrivals and departures?
Or just contingency bussing, it's surprisingly common at airports with huge seasonality. Parking can be remote on the 100 stands I think? Engines running on a taxiway isn't ideal. You might find that the crew who handled the outbound were off handling someone else and the pushed aircraft would be neglected until someone made a call.
I suspect that they're reaching a natural limit of what that 1977 terminal can realistically process, and the next big step is something that a venture capitalist owner would be reluctant to take without public funding.
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.