Southampton-3
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Many thanks for all of your comments and suggestions - I have now done a complete swerve in getting from SOU to NCL LOL !
Two Night Mini-Cruise to Newcastle from Southampton
28 Feb 2024 (2 nights on the ship) Fred. Olsen Cruises - MV Balmoral
How much --- £99 for a nice outside cabin, 2 nights on the ship, and all food.
The ship
Booked!
Coming back to LHR on my BA Avios.
Two Night Mini-Cruise to Newcastle from Southampton
28 Feb 2024 (2 nights on the ship) Fred. Olsen Cruises - MV Balmoral
How much --- £99 for a nice outside cabin, 2 nights on the ship, and all food.
The ship
Booked!
Coming back to LHR on my BA Avios.
Join Date: Aug 2020
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I'm intrigued by the suggestion this will attract onboard worldwide connections.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM.
Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections?
Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM.
Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections?
Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG.
Join Date: Apr 2018
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I'm intrigued by the suggestion this will attract onboard worldwide connections.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM.
Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections?
Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG.
I've just had a look at several worldwide routes on several dates after the 31st March and the best option, each and everytime in terms of cost and time, is to go via Amsterdam with KLM.
Unless Air France start operating it with their own equipment, and / or put it on their website and price accordingly, with decent connections, I can't see this route attracting much in terms of worldwide connections?
Certainly most would either drive to Heathrow or go via Amsterdam rather than buying a separate Eastern ticket and then onward travel from CDG.
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Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially cannibalise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially cannibalise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
Last edited by cavokblues; 14th Feb 2024 at 22:08.
Join Date: May 2009
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Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
That being said, the route needs to operate reliably, else it won't work for anyone.
Then hopefully they get it in their booking system pronto.
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
Weird one though, as considering they're effectively the same airline, why would Air France / KLM potential look to potentially canabolise the Amsterdam connection and dilute those yields and returns from connecting traffic?
Air France via CDG could offer another hub connection from SOU plus destinations that are unserved by KLM via AMS.
Although SOU-CDG will have a certain amount of point to point traffic I'm certain that there's some demand for connecting with Air France at CDG.
On a plus side it would be great for SOU to have service from both Air France and KLM, just like in the past.
I totally agree with you on all counts but regarding your last paragraph.
Air France via CDG could offer another hub connection from SOU plus destinations that are unserved by KLM via AMS.
Although SOU-CDG will have a certain amount of point to point traffic I'm certain that there's some demand for connecting with Air France at CDG.
On a plus side it would be great for SOU to have service from both Air France and KLM, just like in the past.
Air France via CDG could offer another hub connection from SOU plus destinations that are unserved by KLM via AMS.
Although SOU-CDG will have a certain amount of point to point traffic I'm certain that there's some demand for connecting with Air France at CDG.
On a plus side it would be great for SOU to have service from both Air France and KLM, just like in the past.
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Think you have answered your own question. AF will not go up against EZY at BRS but may well try SOU without competition, big catchment on the south coast
In December 2023, CAA data says:
Bristol - Orly - 11,250 pax
Bristol - CDG - 27,159 pax
Southampton - Orly - 1,871 pax
Yes, Easyjet is a strong competitor... but there's a very big market for AF to tap in Bristol. Cardiff-Paris seems to be ending in late March and Lufthansa recently dropped Bristol, making Bristol a lot more appealing for AF-KL
Bristol - Orly - 11,250 pax
Bristol - CDG - 27,159 pax
Southampton - Orly - 1,871 pax
Yes, Easyjet is a strong competitor... but there's a very big market for AF to tap in Bristol. Cardiff-Paris seems to be ending in late March and Lufthansa recently dropped Bristol, making Bristol a lot more appealing for AF-KL
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 14th Feb 2024 at 23:29.
Well, KLM service, as you know has now got up to 3 daily flights from SOU to AMS, and I just saw your post on our Bristol thread too re the ''No AF to CDG'' still.
I too am surprised that AF are not picking up again from flying the UK Regionals to CDG, so are the Alliance concentrating on the AMS Interline traffic rather than via Paris?
I do not know the answer to the one sorry.
I do use the SOU-AMS KLM connection as my ''go to'' choice if I can get a good connection (I have done NBO ATH and VCE this way in the recent past)
Plus, I can use, or earn Virgin Atlantic Flying Club Miles on both KLM and AF.
I too am surprised that AF are not picking up again from flying the UK Regionals to CDG, so are the Alliance concentrating on the AMS Interline traffic rather than via Paris?
I do not know the answer to the one sorry.
I do use the SOU-AMS KLM connection as my ''go to'' choice if I can get a good connection (I have done NBO ATH and VCE this way in the recent past)
Plus, I can use, or earn Virgin Atlantic Flying Club Miles on both KLM and AF.
Pax Comparisons
Now that December 2023 data is available from the CAA it's interesting to compare Southampton passenger numbers to similar sized airports
Total pax. Note Sept 2017 is missing from CAA data
Pre-pandemic we see the summer peak was trending down for Southampton but up for Cardiff. Southampton has the most passengers during the winter. Bournemouth is doing better now than it was pre-pandemic, leading the pack for 2023:
Total pax
Filtering to just charter traffic shows how Southampton & Inverness differ from Cardiff & Bournemouth
Charter pax
Which is illustrated better here:
Pax by type - Southampton and Inverness are mostly scheduled UK with little or no charter flights
2024 will be very interesting...
Total pax. Note Sept 2017 is missing from CAA data
Pre-pandemic we see the summer peak was trending down for Southampton but up for Cardiff. Southampton has the most passengers during the winter. Bournemouth is doing better now than it was pre-pandemic, leading the pack for 2023:
Total pax
Filtering to just charter traffic shows how Southampton & Inverness differ from Cardiff & Bournemouth
Charter pax
Which is illustrated better here:
Pax by type - Southampton and Inverness are mostly scheduled UK with little or no charter flights
2024 will be very interesting...
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Remember that AF/KL do their planning in conjunction and would be loathe to dilute connecting traffic through AMS in favour of CDG unless there was a good reason to do so that would benefit the group.
Airport Consultative Committee Minutes
Minutes from the February Eastleigh Airport Consultative Committee are available.
The Head of Planning and Development for AGS Airports Ltd gave his report (appended to minutes), and reported that:
· There had been no safety issues or incidents reported in the past four months.
· Passenger numbers were forecast to be 1,026k for 2024.
· EasyJet commenced Glasgow and Belfast routes, in addition to continuing Geneva (up to 24 flights per week).
· BA operated a limited service to Bergerac over the Christmas period.
· EasyJet announced Palma, Alicante, and Faro for summer 2024.
· KLM would introduce a third daily rotation to Amsterdam at the end of March 2024.
John Lauwerys asked if, as per the evidence submitted through the planning stage for the runway extension, the airport would continue to run at a loss until passenger numbers reached 1.2 million.
The Head of Planning and Development for AGS Airports Ltd confirmed this continued to be the case.
· There had been no safety issues or incidents reported in the past four months.
· Passenger numbers were forecast to be 1,026k for 2024.
· EasyJet commenced Glasgow and Belfast routes, in addition to continuing Geneva (up to 24 flights per week).
· BA operated a limited service to Bergerac over the Christmas period.
· EasyJet announced Palma, Alicante, and Faro for summer 2024.
· KLM would introduce a third daily rotation to Amsterdam at the end of March 2024.
John Lauwerys asked if, as per the evidence submitted through the planning stage for the runway extension, the airport would continue to run at a loss until passenger numbers reached 1.2 million.
The Head of Planning and Development for AGS Airports Ltd confirmed this continued to be the case.
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Minutes from the February Eastleigh Airport Consultative Committee are available.
Last edited by SouthernAlliance; 17th Feb 2024 at 00:52.
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Fascinating work - thanks!
The charter traffic dichotomy is really interesting, as is the difference in seasonality . Superficially it's surprising that neither has attracted inbound charters for highlands tourism / cruises.
I started to look up Southampton cruise numbers thinking that they must be lower than I was expecting. In fact 2022 was a very respectable 1.76m, which is amost very almost immediate pre covid levels (2019 was a small fall on 2018 anyway) and the third highest in the last 20 years. It appears to be confirmed that either cruise traffic is a very insignificant contributor to SOU numbers generally (or that everything else has fallen off a cliff, which is less likely).
The charter traffic dichotomy is really interesting, as is the difference in seasonality . Superficially it's surprising that neither has attracted inbound charters for highlands tourism / cruises.
I started to look up Southampton cruise numbers thinking that they must be lower than I was expecting. In fact 2022 was a very respectable 1.76m, which is amost very almost immediate pre covid levels (2019 was a small fall on 2018 anyway) and the third highest in the last 20 years. It appears to be confirmed that either cruise traffic is a very insignificant contributor to SOU numbers generally (or that everything else has fallen off a cliff, which is less likely).
Some more comparisons
Air passenger flights - Southampton has more flights:
Air Pax flights. Note Sept 2017 is missing from CAA data
Dividing Air Pax (Table 8 CAA data) by Air Pax Movements (Table 6):
(Note: excludes Sept 2017 data).
Air Pax flights. Note Sept 2017 is missing from CAA data
Dividing Air Pax (Table 8 CAA data) by Air Pax Movements (Table 6):
(Note: excludes Sept 2017 data).