Southampton-3
While we are all here as we support aviation and Southampton maybe I am the only person here that has real concerns that the world has hit record temperatures last year while England floods this year, Yet Southampton Airport and everyone here wants to increase routes and more than double pollution by burying their collective heads in the sand.
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: La Manche
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whether in a planning application, a trademark/patent application or a points deduction - any company, team, organisation (or other) at times is going to seek to slow down, obstruct or inflict a blow to a rival. BOH’s actions aren’t personal or overly dramatic; it's simply how business operates.
Many understand that a central southern England airport with a runway like Bournemouth’s, equally accessible to both the BCP Conurbation and the Soton/Portsmouth areas, would do very well. It may not match Bristol's traffic or reach, but it could mirror Newcastle's success. Unfortunately, this scenario is not our reality. Instead, we have two airports, BOH and SOU, located reasonably close to each other, serving overlapping areas. Both can continue to offer complementary services and enhance customer choice through healthy competition, akin to the relationship between Belfast International and City airports.
It's also not unrealistic to recognise that Southampton won’t achieve the status of Bristol or Liverpool, given its operational time constraints, runway length, and development limitations. Similarly, Bournemouth might face challenges due to a slightly smaller catchment area, lesser historic/regional significance, and lack of direct rail connections. Yet, I remain optimistic about the future of both airports, hoping they can each grow to handle over 1.5 to 2 million passengers annually in the next decade.
Consider this: if BOH were to close suddenly, Southampton might be able to capture more of the market, but it still wouldn’t be able to serve route lengths beyond say southern Spain. Also, while Southampton is a key southern hub, it's not as if airlines are eagerly lining up to connect Bournemouth with major European cities like Milan, Berlin, or Istanbul.
Returning to my initial point, BOH isn't operating from a place of fear. They have a significant leisure market west of the M27, a growing cargo operation, and capabilities for longer flights — advantages that Southampton doesn't have. It seems BOH's actions are more about gaining an edge over SOU when possible.
Reflecting on Skipness One Foxtrot's recent remarks towards you, there's no need to adopt a mindset where SOU's success means BOH must fail. While everyone has their own opinion, it appears that BOH's right to exist and flourish bothers you somewhat.
But when all is said and done, SOU have built it (runway) so they must come (routes)…
Last edited by rustythumb; 11th Jan 2024 at 14:36.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: .
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The inspector essentially spells out what they need to do to stand more of a chance. But that doesn't mean it will necessarily be allowed.
The airport isn't currently unsafe so they need to demonstrate clearly how the trees limit commercial viability and specifically point out which trees they feel infringe the airspace.
Last time the airport couldnt be bothered to provide any evidence to back up either point.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Between the flower pots
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest that Rivet Joint is incredibly scared of BOH spoiling the party. The airports will coexist, SOU has some advantages while BOH has other advantages. SOU longer runway will not have much effect on the big picture.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: London
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOU and BOH serve one large central southern England community - we should all be proud of the two airports. They both offer a considerable choice for local people. We must be grateful for this since other airports, e.g NWI, EXT, BLK (closed), NQY, PLY (closed), HUY, MME, DSA (closed), CWL, PIK & SEN, are all wishing they had what these two airports have between them. SOU & BOH are nowhere near their potential either. Lots to look forward to in terms of development for both.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOU has the best transport links, and great location,it does however need management to promote and advertise its existing routes and to become more proactive in developing much needed new routes.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 44
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RivetJoint…
Whether in a planning application, a trademark/patent application or a points deduction - any company, team, organisation (or other) at times is going to seek to slow down, obstruct or inflict a blow to a rival. BOH’s actions aren’t personal or overly dramatic; it's simply how business operates.
Many understand that a central southern England airport with a runway like Bournemouth’s, equally accessible to both the BCP Conurbation and the Soton/Portsmouth areas, would do very well. It may not match Bristol's traffic or reach, but it could mirror Newcastle's success. Unfortunately, this scenario is not our reality. Instead, we have two airports, BOH and SOU, located reasonably close to each other, serving overlapping areas. Both can continue to offer complementary services and enhance customer choice through healthy competition, akin to the relationship between Belfast International and City airports.
It's also not unrealistic to recognise that Southampton won’t achieve the status of Bristol or Liverpool, given its operational time constraints, runway length, and development limitations. Similarly, Bournemouth might face challenges due to a slightly smaller catchment area, lesser historic/regional significance, and lack of direct rail connections. Yet, I remain optimistic about the future of both airports, hoping they can each grow to handle over 1.5 to 2 million passengers annually in the next decade.
Consider this: if BOH were to close suddenly, Southampton might be able to capture more of the market, but it still wouldn’t be able to serve route lengths beyond say southern Spain. Also, while Southampton is a key southern hub, it's not as if airlines are eagerly lining up to connect Bournemouth with major European cities like Milan, Berlin, or Istanbul.
Returning to my initial point, BOH isn't operating from a place of fear. They have a significant leisure market west of the M27, a growing cargo operation, and capabilities for longer flights — advantages that Southampton doesn't have. It seems BOH's actions are more about gaining an edge over SOU when possible.
Reflecting on Skipness One Foxtrot's recent remarks towards you, there's no need to adopt a mindset where SOU's success means BOH must fail. While everyone has their own opinion, it appears that BOH's right to exist and flourish bothers you somewhat.
But when all is said and done, SOU have built it (runway) so they must come (routes)…
Whether in a planning application, a trademark/patent application or a points deduction - any company, team, organisation (or other) at times is going to seek to slow down, obstruct or inflict a blow to a rival. BOH’s actions aren’t personal or overly dramatic; it's simply how business operates.
Many understand that a central southern England airport with a runway like Bournemouth’s, equally accessible to both the BCP Conurbation and the Soton/Portsmouth areas, would do very well. It may not match Bristol's traffic or reach, but it could mirror Newcastle's success. Unfortunately, this scenario is not our reality. Instead, we have two airports, BOH and SOU, located reasonably close to each other, serving overlapping areas. Both can continue to offer complementary services and enhance customer choice through healthy competition, akin to the relationship between Belfast International and City airports.
It's also not unrealistic to recognise that Southampton won’t achieve the status of Bristol or Liverpool, given its operational time constraints, runway length, and development limitations. Similarly, Bournemouth might face challenges due to a slightly smaller catchment area, lesser historic/regional significance, and lack of direct rail connections. Yet, I remain optimistic about the future of both airports, hoping they can each grow to handle over 1.5 to 2 million passengers annually in the next decade.
Consider this: if BOH were to close suddenly, Southampton might be able to capture more of the market, but it still wouldn’t be able to serve route lengths beyond say southern Spain. Also, while Southampton is a key southern hub, it's not as if airlines are eagerly lining up to connect Bournemouth with major European cities like Milan, Berlin, or Istanbul.
Returning to my initial point, BOH isn't operating from a place of fear. They have a significant leisure market west of the M27, a growing cargo operation, and capabilities for longer flights — advantages that Southampton doesn't have. It seems BOH's actions are more about gaining an edge over SOU when possible.
Reflecting on Skipness One Foxtrot's recent remarks towards you, there's no need to adopt a mindset where SOU's success means BOH must fail. While everyone has their own opinion, it appears that BOH's right to exist and flourish bothers you somewhat.
But when all is said and done, SOU have built it (runway) so they must come (routes)…
Getting back to the context, I was making the point that BOHs recent growth which was becoming another stick to beat SOU on this thread with is nothing to write home about as it’s from existing operators and an educated guess suggests it could be generated out of BOH giving big incentives at a time when the local airport is on the rise. I never said I blamed them for doing it if true but of course its a different story to routes being created out of pure demand from new airlines begging to operate at BOH that some liked to portray on here.
As to the planning letters, I have much experience with such things and I can assure you I have never seen letters of that nature submitted by a business. In reality, there is nothing one business can do to stop a rival investing its own money in its own business. Such letters are merely submitted to highlight their interest in the overall consideration and are low on detail. I am not sure why you are bringing things up like trademarks as that usually has a litigation element to it. You can’t sue a rival business for investing its own money.
there is no reason cannot be a decent base for easyJet. A post recently highlighted a whole list of airports they currently fly from with similar operating hours. You certainly cannot have an airport of the size of Newcastle that isn’t served by a motorway or a train station with a large chunk of its catchment being the sea or on the other side of a national park with single track roads.
You certainly cannot have an airport of the size of Newcastle that isn’t served by a motorway or a train station with a large chunk of its catchment being the sea or on the other side of a national park with single track roads.
Although as your aware unlike very similar UK airports Newcastle Airport does at least have a Metro Station linking the airport to central Newcastle including the cities main railway station as well as to the wider region. In that respect Newcastle Airport does however have excellent local links via the cities Metro system. Although it's not ideal at least the major trunk road the A1 is only 3 miles distance from Newcastle Airport.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe not moorland and single track roads, but decent swathes of Southern England are pleasantly unspoiled (and coastal). And while not a motorway, getting from the A1 to Newcastle airport's a doddle.
Let's put a positive spin on SOU for 2024 -It is what it is for now...
We do have a selection of new Easyjet routes, both Domestic, International Leisure, and of the course the GVA SKI flights (Fancy the Slopes anyone?)
Very attractive fares, as I have found out myself, so get them whilst you can as they say.
We do have plenty of DUBLIN flights - >
These flights can give you plenty of Interline connections on Aer Lingus, AA, DL, UA, and B6 to the USA (usually with the rather handy USCBP/TSA pre-screening)
and to Canada with EI, AC, WS, and TS.
(many are Seasonal of course)
Twice daily KLM to Amsterdam, where again the World is your oyster with Interline connections.
We have Belfast (to Both Airports) where you can get good connections going via there, to LPL, MAN etc (All still quicker and cheaper than taking the 'slow' Train, or Driving)
Plus, Loganair has a handful of Domestics to Scotland and NCL.
As for BACF, we do still have some Seasonal Destinations left,
plus TUI Holidays charters them twice weekly for summer Package Holidays to Majorca on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
We may see more places added by Easyjet in time, as they have cautiously done at Southend...
Use it or lose it, as they often say,
but as we know and have discussed it here often, the 'Word' on the streets about new flights has to be put out there, and that is the job of the Airport, the Airlines, local Travel Agents and the Media.
And for one last time, we will not see the Boeing 737-800NG, nor the 737-MAX at SOU where it will be severely Payload restricted.
(Which depletes most places we would want it to go to).
SOU's runway is not Southend's runway, so can we leave it there please LOL.
We do have a selection of new Easyjet routes, both Domestic, International Leisure, and of the course the GVA SKI flights (Fancy the Slopes anyone?)
Very attractive fares, as I have found out myself, so get them whilst you can as they say.
We do have plenty of DUBLIN flights - >
These flights can give you plenty of Interline connections on Aer Lingus, AA, DL, UA, and B6 to the USA (usually with the rather handy USCBP/TSA pre-screening)
and to Canada with EI, AC, WS, and TS.
(many are Seasonal of course)
Twice daily KLM to Amsterdam, where again the World is your oyster with Interline connections.
We have Belfast (to Both Airports) where you can get good connections going via there, to LPL, MAN etc (All still quicker and cheaper than taking the 'slow' Train, or Driving)
Plus, Loganair has a handful of Domestics to Scotland and NCL.
As for BACF, we do still have some Seasonal Destinations left,
plus TUI Holidays charters them twice weekly for summer Package Holidays to Majorca on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
We may see more places added by Easyjet in time, as they have cautiously done at Southend...
Use it or lose it, as they often say,
but as we know and have discussed it here often, the 'Word' on the streets about new flights has to be put out there, and that is the job of the Airport, the Airlines, local Travel Agents and the Media.
And for one last time, we will not see the Boeing 737-800NG, nor the 737-MAX at SOU where it will be severely Payload restricted.
(Which depletes most places we would want it to go to).
SOU's runway is not Southend's runway, so can we leave it there please LOL.
Last edited by rog747; 13th Jan 2024 at 06:38.
Although as your aware unlike very similar UK airports Newcastle Airport does at least have a Metro Station linking the airport to central Newcastle including the cities main railway station as well as to the wider region. In that respect Newcastle Airport does however have excellent local links via the cities Metro system. Although it's not ideal at least the major trunk road the A1 is only 3 miles distance from Newcastle Airport.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: .
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to put it simply, if you have some 737-800 Pilot mates then just ask them if they can crunch the numbers for you on a SOU-AGP flight with 189 pax on, plus bags, and they will give you the answer.
Also ask them if they could do an immediate return to land with one engine out, or say a fire on board.
The Computer will say No.
It's too heavy and too fast and doesn't stop too well.
I trust that clarifies why.
Plus to confirm, Mr O'Leary said a few years back to the SOU Airport Management''We cannot go to SOU'' even with the Runway Extension.
I see that TCAS_FAN has already answered to you recently but I was going to quote his sage knowledge.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: .
Posts: 463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The obstacles are covered under TODA, are they not?
So a 737NG can do SEN - AGP on a shorter TODA but not from SOU? How does that work?
Ryanair operate from a much shorter runway at Skiathos to the likes of Rome. Whilst that isn't as far as the likes of Southern Spain, it doesn't rule out several French destinations and the balearics
So a 737NG can do SEN - AGP on a shorter TODA but not from SOU? How does that work?
Ryanair operate from a much shorter runway at Skiathos to the likes of Rome. Whilst that isn't as far as the likes of Southern Spain, it doesn't rule out several French destinations and the balearics
"Yes - we agree, not served by a train station or motorway"
But a 4 lane highway that's nowhere near as busy as the M3 AND A Metro - - better than Southampton, Bournemouth, Leeds, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Bristol , Cardiff.....................................
But a 4 lane highway that's nowhere near as busy as the M3 AND A Metro - - better than Southampton, Bournemouth, Leeds, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Bristol , Cardiff.....................................
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You should be a politician
It's literally 3 minutes on a delay-free dual carriageway from the A1 (which, but for the absence of a hard shoulder, is a motorway), which is about as close as Heathrow is to the M4. And the Metro is a train.
EDIT: Apols, my Asturian (or possibly Ferrarese) friend has already pointed that out
It's literally 3 minutes on a delay-free dual carriageway from the A1 (which, but for the absence of a hard shoulder, is a motorway), which is about as close as Heathrow is to the M4. And the Metro is a train.
EDIT: Apols, my Asturian (or possibly Ferrarese) friend has already pointed that out