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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 25th May 2020, 13:26
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Originally Posted by harbour cotter
I have been waiting to book my holiday abroad until everything eased, but I have just booked 3 return trips from Liverpool prior to Christmas. Its viable because now I don't need to self-isolate on return because:

A/ I'm not travelling to the USA or Brazil
B/ Other than the above, its safer abroad
C/ Apparently self isolation is not a 'law' to be broken, merely an 'instruction'.
D/ If its good enough for the Government, even if infected, its good enough for me when i'm not (touch wood)..
A - the USA has lower rates of infection and death than the UK so why would you not want to go there?
B - see above
C - all laws have exceptions
D - Hey why not, If Stephen Kinnock can drive 150 miles to meet up with his dad for his birthday then whats the issue with everyone doing it.
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Old 25th May 2020, 14:38
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I'm just not booking anything until I know more. Still way too many crossed signals and inconsistent advice even from the scientists and medical experts. It's a complete shambles! One thing's for sure, this virus is still flowing fast enough for my age group to be concerned about it.
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Old 25th May 2020, 15:31
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The infection rate in the USA is 30% higher than the UK. And that difference is steadily increasing. The death rate is still catching up, and I suspect that political imperatives will cause underreporting I'm many states.
I see that the hospital in Weston SM has had to close its doors because of a major outbreak of COVID in the area.
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Old 25th May 2020, 17:57
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in Oban
FFMAN's post is a clear example of confirmation bias - believing only those conclusions which support your prior belief.
The death rate is still catching up, and I suspect that political imperatives will cause underreporting I'm many states.
Pot Kettle Black?

You don't know anything about me or my beliefs but if it helps you, I'm still sticking with the current rules because I believe in obeying the law even though I don't agree with it. But I have a right to question it and the policies that have led to its creation. Just as one set of scientific beliefs can be right or wrong, so can others. We are being fed a lie by the government that only their scientists are correct. I'm am merely posting alternative viewpoints from equally viable scientists who have different views, to provide balance and, with a bit of luck, to help people be less terrified of their fellow man.

One thing from the quote that sticks out is that someone who advises the government has said publicly that the 2m rule was conjured up out of nowhere and has no scientific basis. The basis for the subsequent decision to take this as a 'rule' and pretend it was based on science should be scrutinized in any free and open democracy. The government should be held to account for imposing a policy that will destroy the british airline industry as well as the hospitality sector for years to come; possible permanent damage has been done. Hundreds of thousands of young people's futures will have been trashed. The social and economic consequences of this are almost unimaginable. Most people over 30 will not live to see the day that the debt to pay for this is finally paid off.


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Old 25th May 2020, 18:16
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FFMAN

Right or wrong the UK Government did, what they thought at the time might work ! They like many other countries got things badly wrong, regarding PPE, Care homes. Maybe they did not think it would affect care homes, the next guniea pigs will be school children ?

All these so called scientists advising them, what do we know, all the figures and percentages we just have to believe, they could be fiddling the figures to suit themselves just like Mr Cummings bending the rules ?

Anyway I agree Aviation sector is really shafted, and may take many years to bounce back if ever. The real culprits who need to be held accountable for all of the deaths and economies around the world is CHINA, is it me or are they hiding something ?
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Old 25th May 2020, 18:43
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One thing from the quote that sticks out is that someone who advises the government has said publicly that the 2m rule was conjured up out of nowhere and has no scientific basis.
Heaven forbid that the government adopt a cautious approach to an unknownn pandemic and apply a margin of error....
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Old 25th May 2020, 19:05
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So what I want to know before arranging any new overseas travel is:

- When can I insure myself against travel disruption relating to C-19? Purchasing this as an optional extra (like cruise cover, winter sports cover, etc.) would be fine, but travelling completely uninsured against C-19 risk is not.

- When can I be sure that either my destination country or the UK itself won't order me into quarantine for 14 days by default, even if in perfect health?

- When will the FCO rescind advice against all but essential travel to other countries?

- When can I be sure that my destination will offer a welcoming experience? Will there be any visitor attractions / restaurants / bars / pools / activities open? Excursions operating, anything to do?

- Will the locals at destination resent me as a pariah / leper importing the plague from a 'high-risk' country to kill off their grannies?

- Will I be required to dress up as an astronaut every time I venture out from my resort accommodation?

- Will I be obligated to sit so far apart from everyone that it will be impossible to meet new friends or hold a conversation without shouting? (Though everyone generally moves a safe distance away from me anyway!)

- Will I be denied boarding at the departure gate and despatched into lockdown if one of those handheld temperature measurement devices detects an element of perspiration on my forehead whilst negotiating a hot and sweaty airport environment with luggage?

- Given all these newly-introduced measures, how much extra time will I need to allow for interlining at an enroute hub airport?

I'm quite at ease with the flight element of the trip. But all the above remain concerns until proven otherwise.
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Old 25th May 2020, 19:36
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All these so called scientists advising them, what do we know, all the figures and percentages we just have to believe, they could be fiddling the figures to suit themselves just like Mr Cummings bending the rules ?

so-called scientists? What cheek. Why on earth would they, unlike Dominic C, have any reason to fiddle the figures? Their reputation amongst their peers depends on their understanding of the virus and their predictions of the future of the epidemic. It is career suicide for any scientist who fiddles their work. Unfortunately the same isn't true for politicians.
Scientists have been doing their best on the basis of limited knowledge. For example, ordinary flu is vigorously spread by children - which is why they now get the yearly flu jab like old people. The evidence that they don't seem to spread Covid19 in the same way is a surprise. But that's science. Honest predictions based on incomplete information.
​​​​​​

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Old 25th May 2020, 20:33
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Originally Posted by helipixman
FFMAN

Right or wrong the UK Government did, what they thought at the time might work ! They like many other countries got things badly wrong, regarding PPE, Care homes. Maybe they did not think it would affect care homes, the next guniea pigs will be school children ?

All these so called scientists advising them, what do we know, all the figures and percentages we just have to believe, they could be fiddling the figures to suit themselves just like Mr Cummings bending the rules ?

Anyway I agree Aviation sector is really shafted, and may take many years to bounce back if ever. The real culprits who need to be held accountable for all of the deaths and economies around the world is CHINA, is it me or are they hiding something ?
That final question is interesting. It seems to have been carefully avoided in this forum. I have no wish to be political and am expressing neither criticism nor support for the President of the USA by saying this - but evidently he knows things we don't. Think back to an outdoor Press conference a couple of weeks ago when he was asked a question to which he replied, "ASK CHINA."
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Old 26th May 2020, 15:38
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When can I be sure that either my destination country or the UK itself won't order me into quarantine for 14 days by default, even if in perfect health?
That is the whole point of the quarantine. You can be in perfect health and still be infected so be spreading the virus.

If a second wave does come it will be because of pressure from business, airlines and the travel industry in general to relax the rules and take a chance. If it all goes wrong they will then blame the government for relaxing the rules to early.
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Old 26th May 2020, 16:02
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Countries like Germany, Austria & Denmark have relaxed the rules without any second spike. Even Spain with its high mortality rate early in the epidemic has not seen a second wave despite the rules being relaxed. The economy can't wait forever LTNMan to be restarted or their will be no economy, airlines, hotels or travel industry left to start.
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Old 26th May 2020, 19:10
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Looks like lockdown might be over in England, well the general public seem to be following what other politians have done.

Beaches crowded, traffic jams and well Aviation !!!

Bank holiday monday saw swarms of Microlights buzzing around their home bases, light aircraft flying everywhere, over 100 helicopters and a handful of Gyrocopters, all in England, virtually nothing in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So if the Government are worried about a second spike I bet it happens in England ?
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Old 26th May 2020, 19:26
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Originally Posted by helipixman
Looks like lockdown might be over in England, well the general public seem to be following what other politians have done.

Beaches crowded, traffic jams and well Aviation !!!

Bank holiday monday saw swarms of Microlights buzzing around their home bases, light aircraft flying everywhere, over 100 helicopters and a handful of Gyrocopters, all in England, virtually nothing in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So if the Government are worried about a second spike I bet it happens in England ?
General aviation is allowed in England isnít it now? As long as with someone from your own household or solo.
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Old 26th May 2020, 19:51
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Yes it is allowed in England but its a very rapid way of transmitting it to other areas if you are in the incubation period and do not know you have it ? Many flights I have seen are not local and a landing away from its home base ? What I am saying is, it did not take long for the skies to be swarming, does not seem to be a cautious approach ? Just look at the pictures of the beaches this weekend, have people given up social distancing in England ????
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Old 26th May 2020, 20:05
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Originally Posted by helipixman
Yes it is allowed in England but its a very rapid way of transmitting it to other areas if you are in the incubation period and do not know you have it ? Many flights I have seen are not local and a landing away from its home base ? What I am saying is, it did not take long for the skies to be swarming, does not seem to be a cautious approach ? Just look at the pictures of the beaches this weekend, have people given up social distancing in England ????
The risk is likely to be miniscule. Going to the supermarket would be far more dangerous in that respect. What is quite clear, is that the country is now becoming very fractous along the lines of 'Lets accept the risk and get on with life' and those who are 'scared witless and wish for everybody to remain in their cave until the world death rate becomes zero'. Personally, I'd prefer to get on with life. The option of going hungry doesn't really appeal to me.
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Old 26th May 2020, 20:17
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Originally Posted by The96er
The risk is likely to be miniscule. Going to the supermarket would be far more dangerous in that respect. What is quite clear, is that the country is now becoming very fractous along the lines of 'Lets accept the risk and get on with life' and those who are 'scared witless and wish for everybody to remain in their cave until the world death rate becomes zero'. Personally, I'd prefer to get on with life. The option of going hungry doesn't really appeal to me.
I totally agree I too want to get on with life but everything we want to do we are being told stay alert - cautious. It's rammed down our throats to the point I think we are all fed up with it and many people are relaxing their own social distancing. Where I live on Scotland we are still way behind England and almost still in total lockdown, no GA Flying and basically still only allowed out for shopping, medicine and exercise twice daily ? and I think maybe play golf or go fishing, well that's a lot of use to most of the population. I just hope that all of the activity down south does not come back to bite them and cuase a second peak.

If I were in England I would be out and flying with some caution
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Old 26th May 2020, 20:19
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One thing from the quote that sticks out is that someone who advises the government has said publicly that the 2m rule was conjured up out of nowhere and has no scientific basis.
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Heaven forbid that the government adopt a cautious approach to an unknownn pandemic and apply a margin of error....
The WHO suggest 1m. Japan and other countries have 1.8m (6 feet) the 2m rule is not unreasonable and not thought up on the spur.

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Old 26th May 2020, 21:59
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1.5m in The Netherlands. All this confirms what I previously said which is that even the so-called experts can't agree on a simple international standard for just one aspect of the restrictions being imposed!

Incidentally, Playamar2 said that several countries have relaxed the rules without a second spike. It's much too early to say. Let's wait a few weeks and see if that's indeed the case.
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Old 26th May 2020, 22:55
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Originally Posted by helipixman
Yes it is allowed in England but its a very rapid way of transmitting it to other areas if you are in the incubation period and do not know you have it ? Many flights I have seen are not local and a landing away from its home base ? What I am saying is, it did not take long for the skies to be swarming, does not seem to be a cautious approach ? Just look at the pictures of the beaches this weekend, have people given up social distancing in England ????
The beach pictures are not always as they seem, went Hunstanton yesterday fairly busy but people were all being cautious and bathing two metres or more apart, and as long as you do that there should be little risk. Some of the photos look bad but are usually taken at a low angle making it look less distanced than it actually is, if you GA fly but keep a distance there should be no issue really. Viruses donít tend to be a big deal outdoors on hot sunny days, itís the indoor issues you need to watch out for.

No sign of any second waves yet anywhere, including ones whoíve eased lockdowns earlier than England/U.K. and deaths and hospital admissions are down so plenty to be positive about but still need to guard against complacency.

In terms of air travel the EU/U.K./Iceland/Swiss/Norway need to come together and see how best to open up whilst protecting against countries well behind Europe such as Russia and Brazil and hopefully if the majority now more educated in what this pandemic involves use common sense hopefully we never see the second spike. If it does I donít expect it will be until November time so hopefully will buy some
time if it does rear up to get vaccines/treatments.
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Old 27th May 2020, 07:38
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In terms of air travel the EU/U.K./Iceland/Swiss/Norway need to come together and see how best to open up whilst protecting against countries well behind Europe such as Russia and Brazil and hopefully if the majority now more educated in what this pandemic involves use common sense hopefully we never see the second spike. If it does I don’t expect it will be until November time so hopefully will buy some
time if it does rear up to get vaccines/treatments.
The problem with that is the inclusion of the UK! The rest of the nations you have mentioned (and before any bright spark pipes up, I know the EU is not a nation!) are at roughly the same point in the progress of the disease, the UK is weeks behind. Almost all the countries except the UK have daily new infections in the 100s, some in the 10s; one at least (Slovenia) is now declared virus free.

The UK has a way to go before the European mainland (and if it weren't politically sensitive, the Irish Republic) should be looking at treating the UK the same.
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