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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 27th May 2020, 08:11
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Originally Posted by PAXboy
The WHO suggest 1m. Japan and other countries have 1.8m (6 feet) the 2m rule is not unreasonable and not thought up on the spur.
The majority of countries adopted 1.5m - their outcomes have been better than the UK. What is wrong with WHO guidelines when they are based on scientific evidence?
2m is unreasonable if it makes commercial aviation unviable as well as other swathes of the economy.
You say it was not made up on the spur - I previously posted a direct quote from a man who was in the room saying it actually was made up. Were you there too? Good! Perhaps you could share with us the scientific evidence that was used that threw doubt on the WHO guidance and led to an economy wrecking doubling of that WHO guidance.

As for those posters who are afraid that people flyiing circuits in Cessnas and microlights might spread the virus - words fail me. It seems a section of the population has completely lost the plot.
Perhaps those ultra-terrified folks who are scared beyond rationality could go off and live a hermit's life on a croft on a remote island, forage off the land and drink from a stream whilst the rest of us try and fix the economy. You lock yourself away; you self-isolate. Those at little or no risk (the young / the fit) should not have to pay the price for your fears and insecurity. There is no such thing as 'no risk' in any walk of life.
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Old 27th May 2020, 08:25
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The likelihood of transmission depends not only on the distance, but also on the time spent in proximity to the source. I read that a few minutes at one metre is no more risky than an hour at 2. ( I may have got the exact numbers wrong). You could argue that there is no safe distance within a 737/320 over a three hour journey.
A lot also depends on air flow in a confined space, such as a plane.
A group of cases traced to a dining area in Gwangzhou had some cases at several metres, because the ventilation system blew air that way.
And the original spreader was symptomless.
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Old 27th May 2020, 08:53
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2m is unreasonable if it makes commercial aviation unviable as well as other swathes of the economy.
So 1m or 1.5m is viable for commercial aviation? Not on the airlines/airports I've ever used.
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Old 27th May 2020, 08:56
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Originally Posted by valefan16
General aviation is allowed in England isn’t it now? As long as with someone from your own household or solo.
Pleasant yesterday to see a close formation of three Tiger Moths growling right overhead London City in what would normally be their evening peak hour. At least they were keeping (just a bit more than) 2 metres separation
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Old 27th May 2020, 10:41
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The majority of countries adopted 1.5m - their outcomes have been better than the UK. What is wrong with WHO guidelines when they are based on scientific evidence?
In countries such as the UK where people still measure themselves in feet and inches I'm absolutely amazed that so many people appear to understand the 2 metre rule! The USA has by and large never heard of or taught the metric system, so asking an American, unless they've lived or worked abroad, or work in the technology or scientific sectors to keep 2 metres distance would have been totally pointless.

Adopting 1.5m would have been more reasonable, from a reopening standpoint. Think about it; in a space of length 6m you can fit 3 people / operatives at 2m spacing, but at 1.5 metres that increases to 5 people. All industrial sectors would be in a much better place when it comes to reopening profitably. Doesn't really apply to sitting in an aeroplane of course, but might help capacity management in terminals, bars, restaurants and other airport related retail. And with airport operators, retail = revenue.
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Old 27th May 2020, 11:05
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I'm absolutely amazed that so many people appear to understand the 2 metre rule!
Funny thing is, people seem to think 2m and act as if it means 3 or 4. Check it out next time you're in the supermarket queue. I was queuing to get in to B&Q at the weekend and couldn't help thinking that some of the people going there to buy a 2m length of timber might be coming out with more than they bargained for!

Adopting 1.5m would have been more reasonable, from a reopening standpoint. Think about it; in a space of length 6m you can fit 3 people / operatives at 2m spacing, but at 1.5 metres that increases to 5 people. All industrial sectors would be in a much better place when it comes to reopening profitably. Doesn't really apply to sitting in an aeroplane of course, but might help capacity management in terminals, bars, restaurants and other airport related retail. And with airport operators, retail = revenue.
Well you get it at least ATNotts. Bear in mind though that the 2m thing is not a linear measurement it's a radius. I haven't done the maths on reducing the distance to 1.5m (still with a 50% margin of error on WHO guidelines) but it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out that it would make airport terminals become more viable - and the hospitality sector in general.... or I could put it another way: it would bring the UK into line with competitor airports (and other businesses). 2m is economically damaging now, puts us at a competitive disadvantage in the recovery and worst of all is un-necessary.

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Old 27th May 2020, 11:08
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I know people still quote their height in feet and inches, and weigh babies in pounds and ounces, but the imperial system hasn't been taught in schools for fifty years. And anyone who works in industry uses only metric.
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Old 27th May 2020, 11:10
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
In countries such as the UK where people still measure themselves in feet and inches I'm absolutely amazed that so many people appear to understand the 2 metre rule! .
Showing your age a bit? I’m 54, and was only taught in metric (though we knew what feet and inches were). Not sure what percentage of the population are my age or under, but as you say you can add in over 54s with a scientific background, so a big chunk of the population in total.
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Old 27th May 2020, 11:13
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It seems Greece has put the UK on a blacklist of countries not allowed for tourism until Boris Johnson has the UK part of the pandemic under control. Guess not many people will be going to Greece then !!! (Me included) All international flights to resume on 1st July for the countries who have not been excluded. UK tourists make up a huge amount for the Greek economy. I love going to Greece and just hope this does not send them into another financial meltdown. My friends in Greece have told me that when I get my voucher it should be saved for next year ! They say it would not be a very relaxing holiday in 2020

With the current FCO advice we would not be allowed to go anyway ?

BTW ATNotts the 1.5m rule would be great, I have a friend who does not do much at the moment during lockdown, he is exactly 1.5m tall, if I were allowed I could take him everywhere and use him as a measuring stick
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Old 27th May 2020, 11:17
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax
Showing your age a bit? I’m 54, and was only taught in metric (though we knew what feet and inches were). Not sure what percentage of the population are my age or under, but as you say you can add in over 54s with a scientific background, so a big chunk of the population in total.
Whats going to happen to all you youngsters if we drop the European measurements etc

Go back to Yards, feet and inches and Pounds, ounces etc The country will be shopping like zombies !
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Old 27th May 2020, 11:26
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Speaking to the Health Select Committee, Sir Patrick Vallance said that spending six seconds stood one metre away from a person carries the same risk as minute spent two metres apart.
He added: “The risk at one metre is about 10 to 30 times higher than the risk at two metres, so social distancing is an important part of this.”
Coronavirus risk up to ‘30 times higher’ if two-metre rule dropped, Government’s chief scientist warns
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:14
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Originally Posted by helipixman
Whats going to happen to all you youngsters if we drop the European measurements etc

Go back to Yards, feet and inches and Pounds, ounces etc The country will be shopping like zombies !
Not to mention the rod, pole or perch, the chain and the furlong! Mr. Farage would be delighted
Oddly enough, the railway may use metric for the track gauge (1450mm rather than 4ft8 1/2) but they still use miles and chains for distance.
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Old 27th May 2020, 12:46
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Thirty times higher than what though? Eating a lot of bacon increases your chance of bowel cancer by 33%. Closer inspection of the figures reveals the risk increases from three in a thousand to four in a thousand.
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Old 27th May 2020, 13:34
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We wouldn't need to obsess about this 2m separation and associated costs (!) if we all just wore a face mask.

face masks can help prevent transmission from infected people to others. So if everyone wears them - job done.
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Old 27th May 2020, 13:36
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face masks can help prevent transmission from infected people to others. So if everyone wears them - job done.
So that's pubs, restaurants, closed...
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Old 27th May 2020, 13:40
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If you look at Hong Kong as a case study where 99% of the population wear face masks - some small bars are closed but large restaurants, cinemas, gyms and schools are open with little or no distancing.
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Old 27th May 2020, 14:38
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321
face masks can help prevent transmission from infected people to others. So if everyone wears them - job done.
The science of wearing a Facemask is not 100% within the scientific community, but no doubt there benifits in certain circumstances, however, let's be honest about this, the wearing of mask does not sit well within western cultures regardless of any percieved merits. The act of covering ones face really goes against our national psyche as the face is paramount to communication and also feeds into the debate around face coverings for religious reasons. I for one will not be comfortable in a society of face mask wearers and I know I'm not the only one. The images of the pretty young weather girl in the Czech Republic on T.V wearing a mask are quite frankly rediculous.
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Old 27th May 2020, 14:38
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax
Showing your age a bit? I’m 54, and was only taught in metric (though we knew what feet and inches were). Not sure what percentage of the population are my age or under, but as you say you can add in over 54s with a scientific background, so a big chunk of the population in total.
Actually I am one of those odd people in the UK (certainly, but not exclusively of my generation - fast approaching the scrap heap!!) who knows and measures his height in metres (1.78) and weight in kg, I don't actually know my weight in stones - but I could work convert it if I really needed to. People simply don't understand, or at least don't want to understand metric measurements in daily life. I told someone, quite honestly as it happens, that I've lost 6 kg over the last 6 months. She said "what's that?". And as for telling people the weight of newborn babies in kg, don't even go there!!
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Old 27th May 2020, 15:08
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Think about it; in a space of length 6m you can fit 3 people / operatives at 2m spacing, but at 1.5 metres that increases to 5 people.
Might be best to think about it a bit more.
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Old 27th May 2020, 18:03
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Might be best to think about it a bit more.
You're right, the gain is 1 person, not two. But, as a well known UK supermarket oft says "every little helps!"
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