Durham Tees Valley-7
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The talk of giving Peel more public money is sounding stranger by the minute.
News of the councillors secret meeting after the councils own scrutiny committee revealed the details of the verbal agreement where certain members wanted to give Peel millions.
Social media posts about the verbal agreement by the Labour councillors says that they were planning to give Peel £4m, and not the initial £2m.
Press news.
Council leaders criticised over £2m 'secret' deal for Durham Tees Valley Airport | The Northern Echo
Social media posts about the verbal agreement by the Labour councillors says that they were planning to give Peel £4m, and not the initial £2m.
Press news.
Council leaders criticised over £2m 'secret' deal for Durham Tees Valley Airport | The Northern Echo
You might want to go back and read the document linked at post 577 - it looks like a well written document which covers both sides without this knockabout stuff.
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Yes, the last thing the thread needed was another spammer, it's not even the conspiracy theory stuff that bothers me, it's the way they seem to be itching for the conspiracy theory to be true!
People seem to forget that the north east is a low income, low growth area, so no major investment is going to happen without public assistance.
Do you think Nissan chose Sunderland for the views?
Do you think Nissan chose Sunderland for the views?
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The airport that can most be compared to Teesside right now is Prestwick, which is also a marginal airport in a deprived area close to other airports in more prosperous areas. There the holiday flights are still running, but are effectively getting millions of pounds a year in public subsidy. Unlike Ayrshire Teesside does still have industry, so it does have regular business flights.
The next valid comparator would then be Blackpool...
This just isn't a good time to be running that kind of marginal airport.
The next valid comparator would then be Blackpool...
This just isn't a good time to be running that kind of marginal airport.
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There's an irony, there were plenty of places in Sunderland Nissan could have built their factory other than on the perfectly good airfield!
Reference the conspiracy theorist trolls, not that they'll care but people need to respect the fact it's people's jobs and livelihoods at stake
Reference the conspiracy theorist trolls, not that they'll care but people need to respect the fact it's people's jobs and livelihoods at stake
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From where I am sitting reading the different posts, there doesn't seem to be a conspiracy theory of whats been going on, its all starting to come out in documents which councillors have been agreeing to. 
Peel promised £20m investment. I have seen no proof of that investment just lots of payments to other Peel companies out of the DTVA accounts such as payments for ATC services.
Peel are worth billions of pounds, and the owner Whittaker is worth billions. No public money should be paid to either when they got the airport so cheap. They are the majority owner, let them put £4m in.
One point people seem to be skirting around and the press haven't asked during the Hough interview is what are the financial criteria which Hough said would be the deciding factor after 5 years.
Robert may have those figures, but no mention of the details?
Question, if the airport is still losing the so called £2m a year will Peel close it, or give it another 5 years when the break point is due?
Peel promised £20m investment. I have seen no proof of that investment just lots of payments to other Peel companies out of the DTVA accounts such as payments for ATC services.
Peel are worth billions of pounds, and the owner Whittaker is worth billions. No public money should be paid to either when they got the airport so cheap. They are the majority owner, let them put £4m in.
One point people seem to be skirting around and the press haven't asked during the Hough interview is what are the financial criteria which Hough said would be the deciding factor after 5 years.
Robert may have those figures, but no mention of the details?
Question, if the airport is still losing the so called £2m a year will Peel close it, or give it another 5 years when the break point is due?
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Beafer, how's about you learn to read because all of this has been covered previously, if you don't like the answer hard luck I'm afraid
Covering the losses over the years has probably meant they've spent twice £20m, now it does not matter if you do not consider that investment, it does not matter if I do not consider that investment, it does not matter if SWBKCB, N707ZS, MacGinty or whoever else does not consider that as investment, Peel does, and it seems to be recognised by the business community and Government therefore it stands.
For the third time of mentioning, if it was as straight forward and ridiculous -looking as what the press make it out to be, Peel would't ask for it, they are smarter than that. Besides, even if they are trying their luck, doesn't everyone do that during our everyday lives? We all love something for nothing if it's on the table!
As someone else said, how many other airports of our kind are guaranteeing to still be open next week? Peel are being generous, and the likelihood is they won't close at the end of the five years anyway, A) because of the 
storm it would cause and B) why close for such a weak excuse when they've had a couple of strong opportunities in the past?
One point people seem to be skirting around and the press haven't asked during the Hough interview is what are the financial criteria which Hough said would be the deciding factor after 5 years.
Robert may have those figures, but no mention of the details?
Question, if the airport is still losing the so called £2m a year will Peel close it, or give it another 5 years when the break point is due?
Robert may have those figures, but no mention of the details?
Question, if the airport is still losing the so called £2m a year will Peel close it, or give it another 5 years when the break point is due?
storm it would cause and B) why close for such a weak excuse when they've had a couple of strong opportunities in the past?
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Why is it that when Beafer points fingers at councillors, many airport supporters rush to defend Peel?
Peel is a business and will seek to optimise revenue streams, whether its from operational activities or government funding.
The big questions are about the response of the DTV shareholding councils (as keeper of the public purse - ie my money) to this business activity.
Peel is a business and will seek to optimise revenue streams, whether its from operational activities or government funding.
The big questions are about the response of the DTV shareholding councils (as keeper of the public purse - ie my money) to this business activity.
The big questions are about the response of the DTV shareholding councils (as keeper of the public purse - ie my money) to this business activity.
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Hipennine, it's not so much about suppressing Beafer and the likes, your second paragraph answers your own question to some degree. It's also that we're sick of repeating ourselves, as I am now by listing these reasons! The main one is the lack of ability to listen to reason, and the 'I'm right everyone else is wrong' attitude.
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Mr Hough comments about financial break point in 5 years.
A few facts from the Peel spokesman Robert Hough to make it clearer for the Peel supporters on here.
This announcement by Peel was made in June 2016. That is the time the clock started toward the 5 year break point where Peel will decide what they do next?
The 5 year break point will be June 2021 according to the date of the interview.
What I haven't seen from the Peel supporters on here is any publication which shows the details of what the financial criteria will be which Hough refers to ??
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/busine...rport-11522602
A short section of Mr Houghs public comments in June 2016. QUOTE:
"Secondly, there is an agreement we have entered into with the local authorities which is a framework under which we will give assurances for the future to keep open the airport for a period of 10 years with a break at five years or thereafter in the event of certain financial criteria not being met.
To do that, it is very rare for an airport operator particularly in a smaller regional airport to guarantee continuity for any period of time. These breaks provide options.
We can take certain decisions then to reduce the scale, or we could take the decision to close if those criteria were not being met.
These breaks are right. If the worst came to the worst and those financial criteria were not being met there would be options.
No one’s saying if those weren’t met in five years time, the airport would be automatically downgraded or closed but what we have to do as a sensible investor giving five or 10 year commitments is to say if the worst came to the worst we would have certain rights." End quote.
So back to my question, what is the financial criteria which Peel are talking about? Can the Peel supporters on here ask Mr Hough? Or maybe the COUNCILLORS can tell the press as those councillors want to give Peel millions of pounds from the public, which will come out of our council tax increases.
This announcement by Peel was made in June 2016. That is the time the clock started toward the 5 year break point where Peel will decide what they do next?
The 5 year break point will be June 2021 according to the date of the interview.
What I haven't seen from the Peel supporters on here is any publication which shows the details of what the financial criteria will be which Hough refers to ??
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/busine...rport-11522602
A short section of Mr Houghs public comments in June 2016. QUOTE:
"Secondly, there is an agreement we have entered into with the local authorities which is a framework under which we will give assurances for the future to keep open the airport for a period of 10 years with a break at five years or thereafter in the event of certain financial criteria not being met.
To do that, it is very rare for an airport operator particularly in a smaller regional airport to guarantee continuity for any period of time. These breaks provide options.
We can take certain decisions then to reduce the scale, or we could take the decision to close if those criteria were not being met.
These breaks are right. If the worst came to the worst and those financial criteria were not being met there would be options.
No one’s saying if those weren’t met in five years time, the airport would be automatically downgraded or closed but what we have to do as a sensible investor giving five or 10 year commitments is to say if the worst came to the worst we would have certain rights." End quote.
So back to my question, what is the financial criteria which Peel are talking about? Can the Peel supporters on here ask Mr Hough? Or maybe the COUNCILLORS can tell the press as those councillors want to give Peel millions of pounds from the public, which will come out of our council tax increases.
Last edited by Beafer; 23rd Feb 2018 at 13:56. Reason: Public money given to a billion pound private company.
So back to my question, what is the financial criteria which Peel are talking about?
Keeping it simple, making it public would be like a football club telling everybody how much their transfer budget is.
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Some people would argue that demand was there and the airport was run down to a point where the holiday flights went. How do you respond to that?
Quote from Mr Hough:-
That is categorically wrong. We would certainly always follow opportunities from an airline wishing to engage with this airport.
The demand fell and therefore the airlines felt unable to continue with those routes.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the airport turn away TUI and Balkan holidays.
Quote from Mr Hough:-
That is categorically wrong. We would certainly always follow opportunities from an airline wishing to engage with this airport.
The demand fell and therefore the airlines felt unable to continue with those routes.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the airport turn away TUI and Balkan holidays.
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Demand is there, the problem lies with how do you service that demand.
I ll take 3 routes.
Teesside - Dublin.
In the early days this service was operated by a 737-200 and was attracting enough for Ryan to go upto 10 flights a week if I remember correctly. Once though the 800 came on the route there wasn't the demand for as many flights as pax loads on the flight were in the 100 to 120 per flight not enough for a 800!
MME-LHR. It wasn't that long ago that 20000 a month used the service. Then BMI started to chop and change the route, timings, frequency and aircraft. They manufactured a situation to get to a point where they could cut the route.
MME -BRU, Eastern flew this route but it wasn't really any good for the business traveller, again timings were wrong.
What I am trying to say is actually demand is there it is a case of matching operators/aircraft/frequency/timings to routes.
Now the airport has to take some responsibility in this. As if a airline serves a route and gets it wrong them bad publicity follows.
Peel have also made a rod for their own back here or as I see it they are manufacturing a situation to get the land.
What business would get into bed with MME/Peel knowing that they may close the place after 5 years? Who comes out and says that if you a service provider?
Why would you set up routes knowing Peels track record with TUI and Balkans?
Now look at the possibility of the FRA contract being lost too as the RAF/RN are in the process of changing their training contracts and all of a sudden 5 years could be all that is left!
I ll take 3 routes.
Teesside - Dublin.
In the early days this service was operated by a 737-200 and was attracting enough for Ryan to go upto 10 flights a week if I remember correctly. Once though the 800 came on the route there wasn't the demand for as many flights as pax loads on the flight were in the 100 to 120 per flight not enough for a 800!
MME-LHR. It wasn't that long ago that 20000 a month used the service. Then BMI started to chop and change the route, timings, frequency and aircraft. They manufactured a situation to get to a point where they could cut the route.
MME -BRU, Eastern flew this route but it wasn't really any good for the business traveller, again timings were wrong.
What I am trying to say is actually demand is there it is a case of matching operators/aircraft/frequency/timings to routes.
Now the airport has to take some responsibility in this. As if a airline serves a route and gets it wrong them bad publicity follows.
Peel have also made a rod for their own back here or as I see it they are manufacturing a situation to get the land.
What business would get into bed with MME/Peel knowing that they may close the place after 5 years? Who comes out and says that if you a service provider?
Why would you set up routes knowing Peels track record with TUI and Balkans?
Now look at the possibility of the FRA contract being lost too as the RAF/RN are in the process of changing their training contracts and all of a sudden 5 years could be all that is left!
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What services do any of you see as highly desirable from MME? Airport proponents, not just here, have said the demand is there, but the question is, demand for what? And I'm not talking about charter services to holiday destinations. My question relates to services that could be seen to be essential to the local economy, and services that may have been proven in the past or that you think there is otherwise enough demand for to be feasible now. I'm not interested in scoring points one way or another, but in gaining a bit of insight.
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At the moment I'm more worried about the Stobart Air takeover of Flybe, Eastern are going to have to pull something very special out of the hat to save themselves, and under Stobart ownership would Flybe step onto our ABZ route if they fail, or would they seize the opportunity to launch it from Carlisle instead? Seems Highwide might be right afterall and we could end up with just KLM 