Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southampton-2

Old 17th Dec 2018, 21:07
  #1181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What seems strange and limiting is the suggestion that operations by Boeing types like 738/Max will not be viable after the runway extension!.This surely severely limits who might operate and more to the point who would want to operate from SOU?
RW20 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 07:42
  #1182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 758
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20
What seems strange and limiting is the suggestion that operations by Boeing types like 738/Max will not be viable after the runway extension!.This surely severely limits who might operate and more to the point who would want to operate from SOU?
Some could/will operate - but, the type is a slippery beast with high approach speeds and not the most chunky set of brakes - (not my words - but a pal who flies them both)

The routes to/from SOU therefore for the 738 & MAX will be limited - We have already seen Air Europa a while back flying for Thomson Hols with the 738 and the type did not last long.
I think that was only flights to PMI IBZ and MAH, someone here will know for sure and correct this - very short routes, but still faced tech stops and diversions on occasions. When (AE) they used the 734 all was pretty fine....

Correction to my post above but KM/air malta does now fly non-stop from SEN to MLA 3 days a week in S19 and other days via sicily and sardinia - not sure if this is due to the new 320Neo being used for those flights and/or any payload limits.
Loads must have been good for KM to try another year of ops from SEN...even with EZY also flying the MLA route.
But just announced WIZZ are also doing sicily next year from SEN so competition is STIFF...
rog747 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 07:58
  #1183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,240
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by stewyb
Drainage works happening on the far side of the airfield going by yesterday's You Tube clip of the returning EZY service, maybe linked?
Wish it was, looks to me to be the snow clearing equipment which is stored on the east side.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 08:05
  #1184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,344
Received 55 Likes on 37 Posts
But just announced WIZZ are also doing sicily next year from SEN so competition is STIFF...
Think this is Luton not SEN?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 08:45
  #1185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 758
Received 20 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Think this is Luton not SEN?
Yes indeed - my mistake apology - sleepy eyes lol
rog747 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 14:16
  #1186 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Wish it was, looks to me to be the snow clearing equipment which is stored on the east side.
Understand itís fibre optic cable being laid for new radar!
stewyb is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 15:38
  #1187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What category ILS does SOU have? Is it only Cat 1, as I'm guessing any future LCC base operation would insist on Cat 3? What does SEN have there?
Dropoffcharge is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 15:53
  #1188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,240
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge
What category ILS does SOU have? Is it only Cat 1, as I'm guessing any future LCC base operation would insist on Cat 3? What does SEN have there?
Both SEN & SOU CAT 1 ILS, SOU has no chance of ever becoming CAT 3 due to obstacles. Best bet long term is IR HUD fit in aircraft.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 16:11
  #1189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stewby and TCAS FAN
I would be very interested to know what radar is this fibre optic cable for?,there's been no info on any Watchman replacement!.
On the ILS point,there are many cat 1 airport's that operate with extensive operations i.e Cardiff,and with RNAV developing (02 on LPAV) Cat2/3 operations become less relevant ,so I would say that SOU could fulfill the requirements for LCC operations on the approach aids,but may be TCAS FAN can give his valid opinion on this.
RW20 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 16:35
  #1190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,240
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20
Stewby and TCAS FAN
I would be very interested to know what radar is this fibre optic cable for?,there's been no info on any Watchman replacement!.
On the ILS point,there are many cat 1 airport's that operate with extensive operations i.e Cardiff,and with RNAV developing (02 on LPAV) Cat2/3 operations become less relevant ,so I would say that SOU could fulfill the requirements for LCC operations on the approach aids,but may be TCAS FAN can give his valid opinion on this.
RW20, I'm flattered by your invitation. At the end of the day LCC would like CAT 3, suspect that the only reason that BOH have it was that they were desperate to attract RYR, who made them an offer that they couldn't refuse? EZY are expanding at SEN and RYR about to move in with only CAT 1 (same as SOU, on only one runway), time will tell whether SEN will be able to offer them something better.

Is IR HUD the way forward for lower vis ops on CAT 1 runways? Note that AUR are getting it on their new ATR 72s.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 16:58
  #1191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are Cardiff and SEN more or less prone to Fog/LVP conditions than SOU is my next question??
Dropoffcharge is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 17:21
  #1192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 50+ north
Posts: 1,240
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge
Are Cardiff and SEN more or less prone to Fog/LVP conditions than SOU is my next question??
Sorry don't have the MET data to answer that one.

The advantage that Cardiff has is that they have ILS on both runways and while not having full CAT 1 approach lighting systems they are very close to it and therefore should have an approach minima at or close to the lowest possible 550 metres. SOU and SEN have considerably less approach lighting which I would speculate will give them a minima around 7-800 metres.
TCAS FAN is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:05
  #1193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks TCAS FAN for the wealth of knowledge, I was simply wondering why there was no mention of Nav improvements in the draft master plan (or if it would actually be required to attract a LCC) I also haven't seen any indication of plans to carry out a full runway resurface like some have mentioned in previous posts.

thanks,
D.o.C
Dropoffcharge is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:17
  #1194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TCAS FAN
Forgive me if I'm wrong,but isn't the absolute cat 1 minima even with full approach lighting for any airport including Cardiff :650 RVR,with the 200 ft cloud base?. Southampton will be well above this as you say,but again ILS is old and RNAV approachs will surely be on 20 soon?
RW20 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 19:13
  #1195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nope, it's 550m. Cloud base is not a function of an ILS minima but rather the decision altitude (height) itself.
Both of Cardiff's ILS' have a minima of 550m.
Reversethrustset is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 19:38
  #1196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok,but the decision height is still at 200feet in cat 1?so a100 ft cloud base could still present a problem if the RVR was greater then 550mtr ?
RW20 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 19:56
  #1197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Correct, but it depends on whether the cloud is BKN, OVC, SCT etc as to whether it could cause a problem, I've approached many airports where the cloud base has been 100ft and still got visual at decision altitude. At night it's alot easier to "see the lights".
The forward visibility is irrelevant provided you have the requisite 550m, again I've had 10k visibility with the cloud base at 100ft and gone around and as above I've had 550m with a cloud base of 100ft and got in.
Reversethrustset is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2018, 22:05
  #1198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 43
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RW20
Ok,but the decision height is still at 200feet in cat 1?so a100 ft cloud base could still present a problem if the RVR was greater then 550mtr ?
Maybe itís time to take a week off? Canít fault your enthusiasm but this topic has been discussed to death now. Easy will open a base at SOU once they have created the 4 parking stands they need and extended the runway. The current 737 is essentially the same plane that Boeing introduced back in the 60s. Itís a pretty awful airplane by all accounts. SOU will really come into its own once the A220 is ordered in numbers by the low cost operators. This is the next frontier of aviation, watch this space.
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 16:48
  #1199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 712
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why does everyone think the Boeing 737-800 can't use SOU? Isn't Ryanair basing THREE of them at SEN???

When the A320 currently uses SOU it takes up TWO apron stands. This would be repeated for a 738.
shamrock7seal is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2018, 17:34
  #1200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shamrock7seal
Why does everyone think the Boeing 737-800 can't use SOU? Isn't Ryanair basing THREE of them at SEN???

When the A320 currently uses SOU it takes up TWO apron stands. This would be repeated for a 738.
Its been answered by several posters already, the (landing) field performance of the 737-800 is challenging - Google 'B737-800 runway excursion' for some of the incidents, then try for the A320 - a different story.

The SEN base has not opened yet, it remains to be seen whether it proves operationally viable through a winter. I doubt it will last . Ryanair have history with this. Several years ago they opened a base at Belfast City (which has a longer runway and better declared distances than SOU has now or plans in future). The base did not last because of payload restrictions related to the short runway, the airline moved to the larger Aldergrove.

Belfast City data here: http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2018-12-06.pdf

FF
Flitefone is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.