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Southampton-2

Old 7th Dec 2018, 20:17
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Bristol has night restrictions based on both numbers of flights and a points system regarding types of aircraft. It also has a short runway, is over 600 feet AMSL and suffers from hill fog and mist. This hasn't stopped it becoming easyJet's largest UK base outside London although it might be about to be eclipsed by Manchester next year.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 21:01
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What are the earliest take offs that SOU can undertake? and what is the latest time for arrivals?
Am I right in saying that they are allowed a certain number of out of normal times arrivals per month?
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 09:13
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Wonder if they are getting the runway ready in time for the rumoured Jet2 base expansion in 2020. There are rumours that BRS/CWL/SOU or even BOH could be used by Jet2 in 2020.

Could envisage a pretty good base for Jet2 at SOU given they don't serve LGW or LTN and have no intention to fly from LHR when the 3rd runway is open (unlike easyJet mentioned publicly).

If SEN can support Ryanair 737-800 operations to Corfu and Malaga then you can be sure that SOU will be on their radar also. I could imagine Ryanair wanting to serve Dublin & Belfast for a start at much higher frequencies than would be possible from BOH.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 09:45
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Originally Posted by RW20
TCAS FAN
With what you have quoted on the possible TODA and LDA with the extension,are they sustainable distances for 320 neo etc,for med operations.
Unfortunately I do not have 320neo take-off performance data but would suggest you look at what is happening at SEN to get a flavour of what could be acheivable from SOU. Similar to SOU they have a restrictive LDA, which during times when the runway state is "wet" could be problematical, as was the case with past Air Europa 738 ops at SOU, with some diverting because of it.

It would appear that SEN recognise the LDA problem, resulting in grooving their runway to assist with drainage. Many rants ago I mentioned the situation at SOU, grooved runway but the grooving isn't doing what it is meant to do due to not having a cambered runway and water collecting in a drainage channel on the east side of the runway. This results in water not fully draining from the grooves and the runway state continuing to be reported "wet/wet/wet" well after the time it should become dry, almost totally negating the whole reason for the grooves.

Consequently the restrictive LDA on 20 (which will not change with the extension) could be a constraint, unless the drainage problem is resolved.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:05
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Becoming clearer to me now - based on other rumours - that Jet2 is most likely pitching BOH & SOU against each other to see who can do the best deal and likewise with CWL & BRS for their next phase of expansion from 2020 onwards. Good business sense I suppose.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:20
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Originally Posted by RW20
What are the earliest take offs that SOU can undertake? and what is the latest time for arrivals?
Am I right in saying that they are allowed a certain number of out of normal times arrivals per month?
From memory I believe movements (ie take-off or landing) Mon-Sat 0630-2300 & Sun 0730-2300 with 10 per month out of hours movements. I'm in Eastleigh next week so will pop in to the EBC Planning Department to have a look at the Section 106 Agreement.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 8th Dec 2018 at 10:21. Reason: speeling correction
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:40
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TCAS FAN, the published operational hours are advertised as 06:30 to 22:00. But given Flybe schedule most of their return to base arrivals at between 21:30 and 22:30 there must be some flexibility? It would be great to get confirmation once you have a look at Section 106.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 11:47
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The current published closing time is 2230. PPR is available until 2300 if requested by operators. Airfield extensions until 2330 can be requested but are voluntary for the fire service, ATC etc. From what I've seen extensions tend to be granted.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 12:39
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Thanks The Nutts Mutts.

Those extensions are are not free, costs between £470 & £560 depending on early or late notice.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 15:07
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Many thanks to TCAS FAN, Shamrock7Seal,The Nutts Mutts for your informative posts,I guess it's wait and see with planning permission to be given,before we speculate
on any airline developments for SOU.It seems that if it is given then there are improvements to be made on the runway even with an extension.If SOU is to continue and develop then there is only one course of action and that is significant airside investment. We wait and see!
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 15:23
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If SOU is to continue and develop then there is only one course of action and that is significant airside investment.
An oft repeated mantra on this thread - maybe have a look at MerchantVenturers post. If the markets there, airlines tend to find a way.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 17:34
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Sort out airside: Runway length, stands , operational hours and given the transport links airlines will commit!
It's down to owners and management
We wait and see!
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:27
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Originally Posted by RW20
Sort out airside: Runway length, stands , operational hours and given the transport links airlines will commit!
It's down to owners and management
We wait and see!
Direct, accurate and obvious.

SOU has done nothing for years to improve it's product...hence it's recent heavy reliance one operator. An operator that is struggling in today's financial environment.

An airport is like any other business, offer pax and airlines something attractive and they will come. If the airport management fails to provide that infrastructure then why should anybody knock on it's door?
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:38
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Airports like BRS, LTN and LBA have their physical challenges but their development has been driven by demand from airlines (and at times it hasn't been pretty). There doesn't seem to be the evidence of this sort of demand at SOU but previous posters think that the airlines will flood in once the infrastructure is in place. That looks like hope over experience.

A runway extension and extended opening hours - that seems to be a stretch.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:53
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Originally Posted by shamrock7seal
TCAS FAN, the published operational hours are advertised as 06:30 to 22:00. But given Flybe schedule most of their return to base arrivals at between 21:30 and 22:30 there must be some flexibility? It would be great to get confirmation once you have a look at Section 106.
We are talking about different things. I am talking about the legally binding Section 106 Agreement that the airport has with Local Planning Authorities. Within this is the earliest/latest times that the airport may operate, and a provision for flights outside these times.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 16:03
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Does anyone know if the Transun Santa charter went ahead today to Enontekio ?
Cant see anything on the flight departure boards or anything else for that matter

Its the usual one a year departure that often sees a different type / airline in at the airport

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Old 9th Dec 2018, 18:34
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No Lapland's this year!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 09:29
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Expect growth to be unleashed at SOU once the runway take-off length is addressed by Summer 2020. Ryanair services to Dublin and Europe, easyJet (domestics), Jet2 (holidays), Wizz air (Romania, Bulgaria, Poland), Wow (Iceland) & Norwegian (to Scandinavia) are all contenders for new services and based aircraft and believe me from what i've heard the airport is doing all it can to secure them. The days of kowtowing to Flybe are well and truly over.

BOH will most likely lose most if not all of its LCC 'status' after this but to be honest it is important for the region to have at least one airport that excels. We don't need two that are not going anywhere.

Last edited by billygoatgruff; 10th Dec 2018 at 10:46.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 10:19
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Originally Posted by billygoatgruff
Expect growth to be unleashed at SOU once the runway take-off length is addressed by Summer 2020. Ryanair services to Dublin and Europe, easyJet (domestics), Jet2 (holidays), Wizz air (Romania, Bulgaria, Poland), Wow (Iceland) & Norwegian (to Scandinavia) are all contenders for new services and based aircraft and believe me from what i've heard the airport is doing all it can to secure them. The days of kowtowing to Flybe are well and truly over.

BOH will most likely lose most if not all of its LCC 'status' after this but to be honest it is important for the region to have at
Canít wait for responses on this one!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 10:36
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Well, take out the hyperbole and you'd be amazed if the airport isn't talking to all of the airlines listed - not much point in spending the money otherwise.

Couple of points, though - the runway needs to be approved and built first, and what rate of return will these airlines give you?
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