Southampton-2

[RW20]

Didn't the airport plateau in about 2007?before the financial crisis. Development plans should have been made many years ago,if it survives then surely the proposed improvements are not enough to secure a long term future.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by shamrock7seal

Does everyone agree that both BOH and SOU are our regional airports for this region? I regularly use both depending upon what i need to do whether its a connection on from CDG/AMS/MAN or BOH for a low cost flight to Europe.

If we do agree, then surely it's better (for example) if Rigby were to buy SOU and sell it to housing development (for what I imagine would be a massive return on investment) and consolidate everything at one large and flexible airport with improved transport links and bus services across the south much in the way BRS current does it. They don't have a train line nor do they appear to need one.

I fear if something is not done in this regard then SOU will plateau and BOH will not become better for all of us in the south. We need an airport to rival that of BRS for both Southampton/south east and Bournemouth/south west.

I am eager to hear other opinions. Apparently many years ago it was suggested that both BOH and SOU be closed and a new airport in Totton be opened. I would think that is worse for the environment.

The men in white coats will be along shortly. That or you are a troll. Here is a newsflash for you, no one wants to fly from BOH and history proves that. The only reason it remains open is because of all the accrued rent from the occupiers keeps it afloat. It’s basically an industrial estate that happens to have a runway attached. The minuscule commercial traffic it enjoys (3 departures on a good day?) is ancillary, and let’s not forget all the passengers are only paying a few quid (google the word yield). SOU actually requires an airport, it is one of the fastest growing cities in the country, the fact it is the cruise ship capital of Northern Europe for a start blows wee little BOH out of thewater. Easy Jet will be opening a base in 2020 and the airport will go from strength to strength. Flybe’s position is irrelevant, the routes they fly are all tried and tested and have been flown for years and years. There will be plenty of other operators rubbing their hands together at the prospect of swooping in. I think what sums up BOH is the first post you see on the BOH thread which says “a small increase, but an increase!” I wonder who posted that.....

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by RW20

The recent TCAS FAN explanation on the airport open hours drawn up with EBC when the airport was developed is very prohibited,unless this changes and it must be a big if! then I can't see any LCC operator being interested.

Is there any chance you can stop dragging this thread down to the histerical BOH thread level? It has become a magnate for trolls. You have been posting the same few messages for nearly a year now. The works proposed by the airport are happening, they have ran numerous roadshows with residents, the majority of which were in favour (although that’s irrelevant as the airport within reason can do whatever they want with their own land), and the MD has confirmed the planning is going in this year. In fact he has gone as far to say that SOU will have its longer runway in 2020. Have you noticed the 4 airbus sized stands that are being created at a significant cost? SOU has always been very cautious with any meaningful investment, in fact it has been a running joke on this thread. I think it is safe to say that they have done a deal with a low cost airline, and one that has an airbus fleet. Who could that be I wonder? SOU fits Easy Jet’s business model like a glove. It clearly just took a while for Easy Jet to max out their London airports. Southend is proof that once investment is made, airlines will start queuing up. People need to stop worrying about silly little details like opening hours, even Heathrow has a curfew!

[bad bear]

The minuscule commercial traffic it enjoys (3 departures on a good day?)

your correct, I was surprised to see only 5 or 6 departures per day. I wonder how so much controlled airspace can be justified?

[TCAS FAN]

Originally Posted by bad bear

your correct, I was surprised to see only 5 or 6 departures per day. I wonder how so much controlled airspace can be justified?

Simply put "it cannot".

The current CTR/CTA configuration came into being late 80's/early 90's. At this time there used to be a set of criteria specified by the CAA which you had to meet in order to qualify for controlled airspace. This included a minimum number of Air Transport Movements and passengers carried. BOH never came anywhere near the minimums required. Consequently a massive fudge was dreamt up by the CAA, namely that BOH was "an important testing centre", the testing being Instrument Rating Tests carried out by the resident CAAFU Examiners. From memory this was an absolute maximum of about 3-4 per day, Monday to Friday!

[Knife-Edge]

I use both SOU and BOH and value both as local airports, both have their strengths and weaknesses and they only both exist due to the others weaknesses. The subject has been done to death.
The best outcome over the next couple of years would be EasyJet at SOU and Jet2 at BOH, playing to their respective strengths and maximising choice for locals.

If SOU had the space/runway both would be at SOU. If BOH had the road/rail connections both would be at BOH.

As it is both should and hopefully will survive and prosper.

[FrequentlyFlying]

100% with last post. Both have strengths and weaknessses and balance each other out. It’s good to have them BOTH.
Can the child that through all his/her toys out of the pram just get on with enjoying the plans for a positive future for his/her airport in this thread and not wind themselves up by the good news down the road recently.
the rest of us will continue to use both Sou and Boh and enjoy the fact we are lucky to have both options including a small FR base and potentially a EZ one too!

[RW20]

River Joint,
I have endured your liquid fueled replies for some time,it's about time you realised that SOU has been lacking in progressive management and development for some time.There is no certainly that any LCC operators will come to the airport even after any runway developments. Notams show there is no stand developments contrary to your post. Planning permission and any adjustments in airport opening times have yet to be discussed. BOU and SOU can exist perfectly in future operations,but especialy with the Brexit loming things might change that effect operations.
​​​​​​Certainly without runway extensions SOU future is in no way certain. BOU operations could serge upwards given better transport connections,they do have two essential asserts over SOU ,and that is a 7000ft runway,and plenty of space for stand development,oh and can stay open for sustainable operations.
So take stock of realistic possibilities for both airport's and take note of the silly little details that could have signigfcant reprocusions on the airport's development.

[Rivet Joint]

Originally Posted by RW20

River Joint,
I have endured your liquid fueled replies for some time,it's about time you realised that SOU has been lacking in progressive management and development for some time.There is no certainly that any LCC operators will come to the airport even after any runway developments. Notams show there is no stand developments contrary to your post. Planning permission and any adjustments in airport opening times have yet to be discussed. BOU and SOU can exist perfectly in future operations,but especialy with the Brexit loming things might change that effect operations.
​​​​​​Certainly without runway extensions SOU future is in no way certain. BOU operations could serge upwards given better transport connections,they do have two essential asserts over SOU ,and that is a 7000ft runway,and plenty of space for stand development,oh and can stay open for sustainable operations.
So take stock of realistic possibilities for both airport's and take note of the silly little details that could have signigfcant reprocusions on the airport's development.

Are you suggesting that the management are putting in planning and spending the owners money without first doing proper due diligence? I am confused as to what you are you trying to achieve with these continuous rhetorical questions you seem to like to post? SOU is restricted, we all know that, let’s move the conversation past that and speculate on what could be a much more positive future for SOU. This thread never use to mention BOH, but their thread was full of jealous posters. It seems roles have reveresed even though SOU is very much still the dominant airport. BOH will never have better transport links. Investment in roads, railways etc is paid for by the tax payer, and I think it’s safe to stay BOH will find it hard to justify many many millions of public money being spent to benefit an airport that only has 3 flights a day. As mentioned in my previous post, Easy Jet have maxed out Gatwick and Stanstead and are having to wait for Heathrow to build it’s 3rd runway before it can move in there. The logical next step was Southend, and after that Southampton. It’s happening so let’s speculate on what sort of routes they may serve here and start being a bit more positive. I have been one of the biggest critics of the management (although the main perpetrator has left), but we are going to see the first bit of meaningful investment since the airport opened, and they have broken through the 2million barrier 2 years in a row now.

[RW20]

River Joint nothing is certain,nothing has been confirmed airline wise,the stands take little to reconfigure money wise,there is nothing in Notams to suggest that this is happening soon.
Get real!,no LCC including Easy are going to put up with constant diversions to BOU due to after 23-00 SOU closure.You need to pull your head out of the clouds and accept that Unless there is changes in the agreement for operational hours at SOU ,airlines are going to be hesitant at best in investing in future operations.Meanwhile BOU has begun under progressive management to increase,be it slowly in destinations.I'm sure as capacity reaches maximum at London's group airport's BOU will benefit.Southend is one of the London airport group and with significant investment has begun developing a good route network,but crucially is open ( with some night restrictions,) 24hr.
This point brings us back to SOU sticking point,that is operational hours,any variation on these will kick up a almighty storm from Southampton and Eastleigh residents.

[LTNman]

Restricted hours has not stopped Easyjet at Southend so I would not get too bogged down on that one. Costs become a major issue if Southampton opened with longer hours. As well as ATC, fire cover would have to be provided plus many other labour costs to keep the airport open.

Also don’t dismiss the rights of locals to have a good nights sleep. They might have bought homes close to an airport but they bought their homes in the knowledge that the airport was closed each night.

[Dropoffcharge]

A lot of imagination and personal opinion on here lately, most without any fact to back it up, statements like "A deal has been done with a LCC" are somewhat premature and possibly even fantasy.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge

A lot of imagination and personal opinion on here lately, most without any fact to back it up, statements like "A deal has been done with a LCC" are somewhat premature and possibly even fantasy.

I'd have thought that it was more of a case of asking Easyjet what they would need in place to have a chance of a base and then getting that done before any negotiations over a base could begin.

[The Nutts Mutts]

The airport held a public meeting/drop in session yesterday about tree management works in Marhill Copse. Is that the patch of trees south of the runway which affect the obstacle clearance for 20 departures?
Maybe they've been reading this thread and have been spurred into action by it...?
What effect is there on runway 20 departure performance if the trees are reduced in height to below the obstacle slope?

[Reversethrustset]

Do you really think they've been "spurred into action" due to something they've read on pprune, seriously?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Originally Posted by Reversethrustset

Do you really think they've been "spurred into action" due to something they've read on pprune, seriously?

LOL no, of course not. I just find the rantings on here and other threads quite funny, lots of armchair airline CEOs and airport MDs, and like the idea of the SOU management team scouring pprune for ideas on what they need to do to improve the airport. It was gentle humour.

[Reversethrustset]

I couldn't agree more, spot on.

[stewyb]

Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts

The airport held a public meeting/drop in session yesterday about tree management works in Marhill Copse. Is that the patch of trees south of the runway which affect the obstacle clearance for 20 departures?
Maybe they've been reading this thread and have been spurred into action by it...?
What effect is there on runway 20 departure performance if the trees are reduced in height to below the obstacle slope?

Marhill Copse is not directly on the flight path is it? Is it not the trees around the Swan pub?

[TCAS FAN]

Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts

The airport held a public meeting/drop in session yesterday about tree management works in Marhill Copse. Is that the patch of trees south of the runway which affect the obstacle clearance for 20 departures?
Maybe they've been reading this thread and have been spurred into action by it...?
What effect is there on runway 20 departure performance if the trees are reduced in height to below the obstacle slope?

Any significant work to reduce tree height in Marhill Copse will have a very positive impact on take-off weights for RWY 20, which be the proverbial icing on the cake when the starter strip is completed.

Maybe there is now finally a structured runway development plan in place to attract new business? It's 19 years since I first attempted to do it.

​​​

[The Nutts Mutts]

For anyone who is interested, I've found some information about tree management on the airport's website.
It looks like they've been actively reducing tree heights and felling on lots of areas south of the runway, with Marlhill Copse next on the list. According to the website the airport bought the land there last year.
This seems like a very positive development for the airport, with a runway 20 starter extension and a climbout cleared of many of today's obstacles it would appear that much of the existing performance limitations at SOU would disappear.

https://www.southamptonairport.com/a...-safeguarding/