MANCHESTER 1
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And June even better with the DL to JFK added in too.
And just think forward 12 months, when we will see Boston, New York JFK, Newark, Philidelphia, Washington, Atlanta, Sanford, Orlando Int, Miami, Las Vegas, Chicago and Los Angeles on the boards.
Thats 12 USA destinations so far on 7 different airlines, with possibly more to come.
Whats also more interesting is that we only have 3 flights using the B757 this year, with all others using the larger A330, A340-600, B767, B747, B777 and B787. Its the first time in a long time that there are more widebodies to the USA than narrowbodies. It bodes well for us that in a time when airlines are looking at life after the B757, we stand to loose very little, if anything at all.
If we still bemoan our USA offering in times like this, then its time to give up quite frankly.
And just think forward 12 months, when we will see Boston, New York JFK, Newark, Philidelphia, Washington, Atlanta, Sanford, Orlando Int, Miami, Las Vegas, Chicago and Los Angeles on the boards.
Thats 12 USA destinations so far on 7 different airlines, with possibly more to come.
Whats also more interesting is that we only have 3 flights using the B757 this year, with all others using the larger A330, A340-600, B767, B747, B777 and B787. Its the first time in a long time that there are more widebodies to the USA than narrowbodies. It bodes well for us that in a time when airlines are looking at life after the B757, we stand to loose very little, if anything at all.
If we still bemoan our USA offering in times like this, then its time to give up quite frankly.
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-23833 Chicago
-9429 Washington
-9095 Orlando
-3411 Philadelphia
-3042 Las Vegas
-2427 JFK
-274 New York - Newark
+609 Sanford
+4087 Atlanta
-9429 Washington
-9095 Orlando
-3411 Philadelphia
-3042 Las Vegas
-2427 JFK
-274 New York - Newark
+609 Sanford
+4087 Atlanta
Anyone explain MCO drop, did VS pull capacity?
I'd put it down to the strong dollar. I'm guessing the majority of people using these flights are British citizens? I.E. less US tourists than say London or Dublin? Hence it's more expensive for people to holiday in the U.S. this year than last? That'll change, plus TCX lowering fares next year will lower prices by forcing the competition to match their prices. That's my opinion anyway. Happy to be challenged.
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The Manchester-Dublin Route
Following the dramatic announcements concerning the MAN-DUB route over recent days I have been doing some further research.
When I did my original survey of Ryanair's MAN flight programme for Winter 2015-16 (with numbers based on a typical week in February), RYR was showing a planned 30 departures weekly on the route. This has now risen to 42 departures per week ... a straight 6x Daily schedule ... a healthy increase of 12 departures per week. RYR will be offering an impressive 7938 round-trip seats per week on the route with many fares available at just £19.98 return all-in. Worth considering some daytrips?
Meanwhile, Aer Lingus, whose announcement hit the headlines first, is still showing a completely unchanged schedule on the MAN-DUB route (based on availability searches on their website). Have they got cold feet and quietly shelved their plans for additional capacity on the route, or are they just remarkably slow loading the new flights onto their website? Meanwhile, their lowest price round-trip deal appears to come in at £73.98.
Basically, one can do 3.7 round-trips on Ryanair for the price of one on Aer Lingus. And Ryanair is offering a better spread of timings based on what is currently displayed on the respective websites. There is little to choose between the two carriers in terms of cabin service on such a short sector.
One has to wonder whether this battle for market-share has ended before it has really begun. Of course, in terms of yield the picture may vary. At £73.98 base return fare, EIN must be building in a good margin there (if they can shift them). RYR's £19.98 return appears very attractive ... perhaps that first tier is regarded as a loss-leader? They do seem easy to obtain though. These prices certainly put UK rail fares into perspective!
Following the Dublin changes, Ryanair's mid-winter programme now features 149 scheduled departures per week to 25 destinations from MAN. A total of 28161 round-trip seats are on offer each week, representing a potential 56322 passengers through the terminal.
Question: Is anybody able to confirm Aer Lingus intentions on MAN-DUB? Have they quietly dropped plans to increase flights on the route or are they just remarkably slow updating their online booking engine?
When I did my original survey of Ryanair's MAN flight programme for Winter 2015-16 (with numbers based on a typical week in February), RYR was showing a planned 30 departures weekly on the route. This has now risen to 42 departures per week ... a straight 6x Daily schedule ... a healthy increase of 12 departures per week. RYR will be offering an impressive 7938 round-trip seats per week on the route with many fares available at just £19.98 return all-in. Worth considering some daytrips?
Meanwhile, Aer Lingus, whose announcement hit the headlines first, is still showing a completely unchanged schedule on the MAN-DUB route (based on availability searches on their website). Have they got cold feet and quietly shelved their plans for additional capacity on the route, or are they just remarkably slow loading the new flights onto their website? Meanwhile, their lowest price round-trip deal appears to come in at £73.98.
Basically, one can do 3.7 round-trips on Ryanair for the price of one on Aer Lingus. And Ryanair is offering a better spread of timings based on what is currently displayed on the respective websites. There is little to choose between the two carriers in terms of cabin service on such a short sector.
One has to wonder whether this battle for market-share has ended before it has really begun. Of course, in terms of yield the picture may vary. At £73.98 base return fare, EIN must be building in a good margin there (if they can shift them). RYR's £19.98 return appears very attractive ... perhaps that first tier is regarded as a loss-leader? They do seem easy to obtain though. These prices certainly put UK rail fares into perspective!
Following the Dublin changes, Ryanair's mid-winter programme now features 149 scheduled departures per week to 25 destinations from MAN. A total of 28161 round-trip seats are on offer each week, representing a potential 56322 passengers through the terminal.
Question: Is anybody able to confirm Aer Lingus intentions on MAN-DUB? Have they quietly dropped plans to increase flights on the route or are they just remarkably slow updating their online booking engine?
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Question: Is anybody able to confirm Aer Lingus intentions on MAN-DUB? Have they quietly dropped plans to increase flights on the route or are they just remarkably slow updating their online booking engine?
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Do Thomas Cook offer anything to the regular business traveller or indeed offer much in the way of USA-UK traffic?
It's always good to see more direct services to the USA, but this is very "Gatwick-ey". * awaits a slaughtering from the believers
TCX are rightly going after a gap in the market but to me it remains a concern that connectivity and legacy year round US services (ORD a concern) seem to be....mature?
It's always good to see more direct services to the USA, but this is very "Gatwick-ey". * awaits a slaughtering from the believers
TCX are rightly going after a gap in the market but to me it remains a concern that connectivity and legacy year round US services (ORD a concern) seem to be....mature?
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Jamie2k9 -
What kind of a reply is that? Do you really think we believe that "up to 6 daily" means 6 departures every day??? Please show a little respect.
Now, the point I actually made is that EIN's website has not been updated to show ANY additional flights on MAN-DUB during the month of February. Sun-Fri shows 5 flights daily (3x A320, 2x AT76); Saturday shows 4 flights (1x A320, 3x AT76). In other words, UNCHANGED FROM NOW, as I said. NO day shows 6 frequencies MAN-DUB with Aer Lingus. Which is what their own press release led us to expect just afew days ago.
So my question stands. Have Aer Lingus quietly shied away from adding the additional services they recently announced? Or are they just very slow updating their booking engine? One of these two scenarios has to be correct.
What kind of a reply is that? Do you really think we believe that "up to 6 daily" means 6 departures every day??? Please show a little respect.
Now, the point I actually made is that EIN's website has not been updated to show ANY additional flights on MAN-DUB during the month of February. Sun-Fri shows 5 flights daily (3x A320, 2x AT76); Saturday shows 4 flights (1x A320, 3x AT76). In other words, UNCHANGED FROM NOW, as I said. NO day shows 6 frequencies MAN-DUB with Aer Lingus. Which is what their own press release led us to expect just afew days ago.
So my question stands. Have Aer Lingus quietly shied away from adding the additional services they recently announced? Or are they just very slow updating their booking engine? One of these two scenarios has to be correct.
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Skipness - Good to see you getting your defence in early by denigrating those who disagree with you as "believers". Rather than rational analysts who assess the hard data like yourself, no doubt? :-)
Thomas Cook Airlines is unapologetically a leisure-orientated operation. (You are aware of this, I'm sure). As such, "offering anything to the regular business traveller" is largely superfluous to them. If business travellers elect to travel with them that's icing on the cake ... very welcome additional revenue. But those TCX schedules will stand or fall based on the uptake from leisure travellers, their core market. If by being "Gatwick-ey" you mean that TCX services are designed to appeal to the leisure market then you are quite correct. But there is nothing wrong with knowing who your core customers are and designing a product which appeals primarily to them. If that means tourists so be it. It is simply good business. On the question of US-originating customers, I wouldn't have expected too many due to relatively low awareness. However, anecdotal feedback locally suggests a surprisingly enthusiastic uptake from our American cousins.
Now, on to your suggestion that MAN's legacy US services are "mature". Your recent record shows a series of postings on the Manchester thread provocatively promoting this interpretation. All neatly dovetailing with your agenda to argue the case for a third runway at LHR rather than encouraging regional gateways to expand to their full potential. Conveniently ignoring the outrageous price-tag associated with the LHR proposals, of course. Hmmm ... funny that!
Thomas Cook Airlines is unapologetically a leisure-orientated operation. (You are aware of this, I'm sure). As such, "offering anything to the regular business traveller" is largely superfluous to them. If business travellers elect to travel with them that's icing on the cake ... very welcome additional revenue. But those TCX schedules will stand or fall based on the uptake from leisure travellers, their core market. If by being "Gatwick-ey" you mean that TCX services are designed to appeal to the leisure market then you are quite correct. But there is nothing wrong with knowing who your core customers are and designing a product which appeals primarily to them. If that means tourists so be it. It is simply good business. On the question of US-originating customers, I wouldn't have expected too many due to relatively low awareness. However, anecdotal feedback locally suggests a surprisingly enthusiastic uptake from our American cousins.
Now, on to your suggestion that MAN's legacy US services are "mature". Your recent record shows a series of postings on the Manchester thread provocatively promoting this interpretation. All neatly dovetailing with your agenda to argue the case for a third runway at LHR rather than encouraging regional gateways to expand to their full potential. Conveniently ignoring the outrageous price-tag associated with the LHR proposals, of course. Hmmm ... funny that!
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Jamie2k9 -
What kind of a reply is that? Do you really think we believe that "up to 6 daily" means 6 departures every day??? Please show a little respect.
Now, the point I actually made is that EIN's website has not been updated to show ANY additional flights on MAN-DUB during the month of February. Sun-Fri shows 5 flights daily (3x A320, 2x AT76); Saturday shows 4 flights (1x A320, 3x AT76). In other words, UNCHANGED FROM NOW, as I said. NO day shows 6 frequencies MAN-DUB with Aer Lingus. Which is what their own press release led us to expect just afew days ago.
So my question stands. Have Aer Lingus quietly shied away from adding the additional services they recently announced? Or are they just very slow updating their booking engine? One of these two scenarios has to be correct.
What kind of a reply is that? Do you really think we believe that "up to 6 daily" means 6 departures every day??? Please show a little respect.
Now, the point I actually made is that EIN's website has not been updated to show ANY additional flights on MAN-DUB during the month of February. Sun-Fri shows 5 flights daily (3x A320, 2x AT76); Saturday shows 4 flights (1x A320, 3x AT76). In other words, UNCHANGED FROM NOW, as I said. NO day shows 6 frequencies MAN-DUB with Aer Lingus. Which is what their own press release led us to expect just afew days ago.
So my question stands. Have Aer Lingus quietly shied away from adding the additional services they recently announced? Or are they just very slow updating their booking engine? One of these two scenarios has to be correct.
If you look closely this coming winters hype is no more than was planned last year but disappeared quietly from both carriers, FR are only up around 4 flights and EI 1 flight.
Last edited by Jamie2k9; 25th May 2015 at 01:37.
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Jamie2k9 - Thankyou for your response.
I have just taken another look at Ryanair's website. It is currently showing six departures daily MAN-DUB for Winter with departures seven days per week at 08:00 12:00 15:15 17:20 18:00 21:40. For the early part of the winter, all six daily departures are priced up and bookable on the Ryanair website. This amounts to 42 departures per week, an increase of 12 over the previous schedule.
Aer Lingus is showing 34 departures per week (based on February) comprising 19 x A320, 15 x AT76.
A look back at the February 2015 timetable actually shows 36 departures per week with 20 x A320* and 16 x AT76. I cannot confirm whether all these flights operated as timetabled, but it appears that this coming winter season's schedule requires two additional rotations just to match last year's offering. Any 10% rise here would seem to be a mirage unless a substantial revision is forthcoming. Most disappointing.
As you indicate, the number of flights offered on MAN-DUB in the final analysis remains to be seen. But at this point Ryanair is selling 42 departures per week based on sample November dates fully priced up and bookable. True to their word - so far. The February flights were not displaying prices when I checked just now so frequency may yet change when these are loaded, but the online timetable is showing a similar schedule to November.
The exact wording taken from the Aer Lingus blog reads: "10% more seats on Dublin to Manchester with up to six flights daily". If this Aer Lingus release was just puff (and I did read the Aer Lingus statement, not an external media re-interpretation) then it has not done their situation any favours. At best it makes Aer Lingus appear disingenuous as a company. At worst they have provoked a decisive reaction from Ryanair which can only be damaging to EIN's own bottom line. Maybe they should be more careful what they put out if they intend to embellish the narrative?
*NOTE: I recall some of the morning EIN flights using A319's last Winter. However, this would not account for a 10% increase y-o-y. Using a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, 6x A319 (144 seats), 14x A320 (174 seats), 16x AT76 (72 seats) gives 4452 return seats for a Feb 2015 week. Projected Feb 2016 gives 19x A320 (174) and 15x AT72 (72) for a total of 4386 return seats. Configs are taken from Airfleets - I don't know whether they're 100% accurate but they seem about right. If this is the final version of their programme, EIN is showing a small reduction in capacity here ... not growth of 10%.
I have just taken another look at Ryanair's website. It is currently showing six departures daily MAN-DUB for Winter with departures seven days per week at 08:00 12:00 15:15 17:20 18:00 21:40. For the early part of the winter, all six daily departures are priced up and bookable on the Ryanair website. This amounts to 42 departures per week, an increase of 12 over the previous schedule.
Aer Lingus is showing 34 departures per week (based on February) comprising 19 x A320, 15 x AT76.
A look back at the February 2015 timetable actually shows 36 departures per week with 20 x A320* and 16 x AT76. I cannot confirm whether all these flights operated as timetabled, but it appears that this coming winter season's schedule requires two additional rotations just to match last year's offering. Any 10% rise here would seem to be a mirage unless a substantial revision is forthcoming. Most disappointing.
As you indicate, the number of flights offered on MAN-DUB in the final analysis remains to be seen. But at this point Ryanair is selling 42 departures per week based on sample November dates fully priced up and bookable. True to their word - so far. The February flights were not displaying prices when I checked just now so frequency may yet change when these are loaded, but the online timetable is showing a similar schedule to November.
The exact wording taken from the Aer Lingus blog reads: "10% more seats on Dublin to Manchester with up to six flights daily". If this Aer Lingus release was just puff (and I did read the Aer Lingus statement, not an external media re-interpretation) then it has not done their situation any favours. At best it makes Aer Lingus appear disingenuous as a company. At worst they have provoked a decisive reaction from Ryanair which can only be damaging to EIN's own bottom line. Maybe they should be more careful what they put out if they intend to embellish the narrative?
*NOTE: I recall some of the morning EIN flights using A319's last Winter. However, this would not account for a 10% increase y-o-y. Using a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation, 6x A319 (144 seats), 14x A320 (174 seats), 16x AT76 (72 seats) gives 4452 return seats for a Feb 2015 week. Projected Feb 2016 gives 19x A320 (174) and 15x AT72 (72) for a total of 4386 return seats. Configs are taken from Airfleets - I don't know whether they're 100% accurate but they seem about right. If this is the final version of their programme, EIN is showing a small reduction in capacity here ... not growth of 10%.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 25th May 2015 at 03:37.
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I wonder (a) what proportion of EIs traffic on the route is point to point ; (b) what proportion of the USA traffic out of MAN is UK originating. A lot of this discussion depends on the composition of the traffic.
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Tom
Going a few posts back, airline services were supposed to have the TCX contract as they were granted permission to enter the ramp contract last year and look what happened there.
I belive Swissport are currently under a 60 day improvement notice and at the end of the 60 days, they either say yes to carrying on the contract, or they give swissport 90 days notice to end the contract, to which the tender goes out to all the other handling agents and they can make their offer.
I belive Swissport are currently under a 60 day improvement notice and at the end of the 60 days, they either say yes to carrying on the contract, or they give swissport 90 days notice to end the contract, to which the tender goes out to all the other handling agents and they can make their offer.
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David Cameron ?warming? to Gatwick expansion plan | UK news | The Guardian
Could this be an opening for Manchester ?
Could this be an opening for Manchester ?
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Originally Posted by Bagso
Could this be an opening for Manchester ?
There's too much looking down at the arse of England and not enough at what's actually going on up here.
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Agree with Stoneybridge radar.
People tend to forget that George Osbourne's constituency starts at the other side of the boundary fence for 23L.
The success of the airport is massively important for his constituents.
Plus the whole Northern Powerhouse concept is quite compelling. I was asked to explain it in the States a couple of weeks ago. People are interested: investors and the like.
Frankly though the physical condition of the airport doesn't support any powerhouse, needs massive investment in its terminals and apron/taxiways.
People tend to forget that George Osbourne's constituency starts at the other side of the boundary fence for 23L.
The success of the airport is massively important for his constituents.
Plus the whole Northern Powerhouse concept is quite compelling. I was asked to explain it in the States a couple of weeks ago. People are interested: investors and the like.
Frankly though the physical condition of the airport doesn't support any powerhouse, needs massive investment in its terminals and apron/taxiways.
ANT makes a vailid point. Whilst everyone is baying for extra services, T3 certainly is not fit for purpose. In the morning peak it is at capacity.
In T2 the "Business" lounges are abysmal- tiny shoe boxes with basic fayre- It's a sad state when the terminal is actually better than the lounge.
We hear alot about plans for a revamp, but where are they? If they haven't even made publication, then they must be years away from any completion.
There needs an urgent review of T3 allocations-3 x American widebodies don't mix well with the Ryanair & Flybe fleet, too many people in too short a time span.
In T2 the "Business" lounges are abysmal- tiny shoe boxes with basic fayre- It's a sad state when the terminal is actually better than the lounge.
We hear alot about plans for a revamp, but where are they? If they haven't even made publication, then they must be years away from any completion.
There needs an urgent review of T3 allocations-3 x American widebodies don't mix well with the Ryanair & Flybe fleet, too many people in too short a time span.
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Expansion @ MAN
Whilst it is understandable that most posters on this page want to see the planned expansion starting on site, I can assure people that things are moving along at the moment. The senior and project management teams are both now in place. The basic outline of what is going to happen has been drawn up and is now moving into the planning phase. Patience is the watchword.
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I know how major infrastructure projects are conceived and planned..done it most of my career and it's what takes me through Manchester's terminals on an all too frequent basis as I plough my furrow overseas.
What amazes me therefore is that one of the classic project design must-dos appears to be missing from the process - user consultation.
I appreciate that MAN/MAG doesn't think of its passengers as customers - it considers them to be the airlines' customers rather than its own - however if the experience doesn't work for the pax then alternatives are sometimes taken - as I do (eg I avoid any options that involve T3 at MAN in the early morning as an absolute rule...AF/KL take note in particular).
As Mr ATIS says too, the T2 lounges are worse than the terminal - embarrassing really; Piers B and C on T1 - a joke......leaky roof problems in T1...the list goes on.
Plus, having 20 years of plodding through airports all over the world and seeing what works and what doesn't, provides an invaluable source of experience* from me and, I'm sure, lots of others that go through MAN on a regular basis. Arguably we would be better qualified than some desk bound airline executive sitting in an office in London.
*Same said experience proves to me that MAN has fallen way way behind in recent years.
In true MAN style I expect a storm of angst directed at me from those who believe all is well and good and that the airport can do no wrong.
What amazes me therefore is that one of the classic project design must-dos appears to be missing from the process - user consultation.
I appreciate that MAN/MAG doesn't think of its passengers as customers - it considers them to be the airlines' customers rather than its own - however if the experience doesn't work for the pax then alternatives are sometimes taken - as I do (eg I avoid any options that involve T3 at MAN in the early morning as an absolute rule...AF/KL take note in particular).
As Mr ATIS says too, the T2 lounges are worse than the terminal - embarrassing really; Piers B and C on T1 - a joke......leaky roof problems in T1...the list goes on.
Plus, having 20 years of plodding through airports all over the world and seeing what works and what doesn't, provides an invaluable source of experience* from me and, I'm sure, lots of others that go through MAN on a regular basis. Arguably we would be better qualified than some desk bound airline executive sitting in an office in London.
*Same said experience proves to me that MAN has fallen way way behind in recent years.
In true MAN style I expect a storm of angst directed at me from those who believe all is well and good and that the airport can do no wrong.