MANCHESTER 1

[bar none]

e gates

Arrived into T1 at about 0230 this morning. No e gates open and a massive queue going about a hundred yards down pier C. When we eventually arrived at Border Control (Half an hour) we asked why no e gates.
Were told that they are run by MAG and close at night and open again in the morning.
Hardly an acceptable situation if MAG have aspirations of improving and becoming a world class airport

[BDLBOS]

Expansion @ Man

"Whilst it is understandable that most posters on this page want to see the planned expansion starting on site, I can assure people that things are moving along at the moment. The senior and project management teams are both now in place. The basic outline of what is going to happen has been drawn up and is now moving into the planning phase. Patience is the watchword."

So something that should have been done years ago, is at a stage where two teams are standing around a big table basically looking at a fag packet sketch. How long will these phases now take, then building work. Patience is the watchword, lack of planning is the fact.

[Bagso]

Lets hope for an announcement on Airport Commission Day !

[Bagso]

Opinion: Ken O' Toole - Manchester Evening News

I think they are upping their game !!!!

I "think" poss state aid was a mere 1bn for LGW so IF MAN announce expansion is announced "same time "

There is absolutely no reason why we can't split that investment....IS THERE .....!!!!!!

[Logohu]

Aer Lingus and IAG

So - what impact do posters think the swallowing of Aer Lingus by IAG will have on MAN and the UK regions ? Yes it's still subject to some rubber stamps but with the Irish Govt now on side it's essentially a done deal.

Is it all about the LHR slots, or is there a lot more at play here ? Apparently part of the deal to gain the Irish Government's approval is that EI (or IAG) will open another four North American routes from DUB next year. The build up of DUB capacity from MAN, BHX and other UK points next winter appears well timed.

Will we see further consolidation of IAG partner AA at MAN as transatlantic passengers are increasingly funnelled through DUB now as well as LHR ? If so how will Delta/VS and United protect their market from MAN and the UK regions ? And how will these two react to being squeezed at DUB by the EI/BA/AA monolith ?

Ken O'Toole rightly says that "customers do not have to fly through a London airport to reach their final destination". He's right, now they have an even closer hub to fly through just a short 40 minute hop west of his doorstep. Meanwhile long awaited plans for redeveloping the terminals at MAN continue to inch along. Hmmm...

[Una Due Tfc]

I would expect BA to reduce frequency between LHR and several of the UK regions to free up slots and EI to fill the gap. EI are only an alternative on the North Atlantic though, BA will still want PAX heading east. I would also expect BA to reduce or drop LHR-DUB, freeing up slots for expansion to China, which is the next big nut to crack for them.

With EI now in the group, I wouldn't be surprised to see AA backing off in the UK regions that EI serve, and EI to increase services to these airports. What do others think?

[LAX_LHR]

There will be no major repricussions for MAN at this stage.




MAN-LHR is now at a sustainable level to remain competative. Dont forget, there are a lot of passengers going east, and there are far more direct options from LHR going west too, DUB will never be a full alternative to LHR, unless EI have plans to match BA's frequency to the USA?

Also, aside from the winter months when ORD has to be rested for 2-3 months, MAN has traditionally been a strong market for AA. There is a reason they have been here since 1985. And its also worth pointing out MAN is now an all widebody station for AA, which again translates into the fact the capacity must be needed at MAN, after all, if a B757 can do the job then why bother upping to the B767.

The EI deal doesn't suddenly mean that 2 B767's, an A330 and potentially 2-3 airbus worth of pax per day suddenly disappearing to DUB. At (supposedly) 6 daily and another 6 daily from FR I doubt any more frequency will be added as the main hub banks would be covered given the main bulk of TATL goes in the morning, and just how many more people do they envisage being shoved into an A320 to meet that morning wave?

[Una Due Tfc]

Originally Posted by LAX_LHR

There will be no major repricussions for MAN at this stage.




MAN-LHR is now at a sustainable level to remain competative. Dont forget, there are a lot of passengers going east, and there are far more direct options from LHR going west too, DUB will never be a full alternative to LHR, unless EI have plans to match BA's frequency to the USA?

Also, aside from the winter months when ORD has to be rested for 2-3 months, MAN has traditionally been a strong market for AA. There is a reason they have been here since 1985. And its also worth pointing out MAN is now an all widebody station for AA, which again translates into the fact the capacity must be needed at MAN, after all, if a B757 can do the job then why bother upping to the B767.

The EI deal doesn't suddenly mean that 2 B767's, an A330 and potentially 2-3 airbus worth of pax per day suddenly disappearing to DUB. At (supposedly) 6 daily and another 6 daily from FR I doubt any more frequency will be added as the main hub banks would be covered given the main bulk of TATL goes in the morning, and just how many more people do they envisage being shoved into an A320 to meet that morning wave?

All Good points. I was thinking more airports like BHX that only really have 1 flight competing with AA. Even if AA did back off big time, it would leave a big swinging door for VS/DL, UA and TC to step through at MAN.

[GavinC]

rumours elsewhere that Air India are about to drop BHX and open at MAN. We've heard about them looking at MAN before but this is the first I've heard of it being a replacement to BHX.

Air India are in Star Alliance so could be looking for connections on United, TAP and SAS via MAN? Other connections are feasible but backwards such as on Lufthansa. I wonder if Flybe are also offering connections via their MAN hub?

[LAX_LHR]

Sorry bout that Una,


Being a MAN thread I responded from a MAN perspective. Given the competativeness of the USA market from MAN, there may be slight adjustments, but, as you say, why hand your competitors the edge?

Given BHX-JFK is a new route, down the road from LHR and MAN, as well as having a lot of focus from EI (and the fact 2 daily flights to the US never seemed to fare well, BHX seem to be good at the 'introductory rate' for airlines but less so at making them stay, and FI now wanting a piece of the US pie too, not to mention the ever looming threat of DY long haul), I feel they are the ones with the most to prove, so will be interesting to see how that pans out.

[LAX_LHR]

Also I don't think Air India will pull BHX to start MAN. It would be quite a disaster for BHX if that were to happen, and I don't think Mr Kehoe would let it happen after all the work he and his team put in to lure them back.

If there is any element of truth to the story, however, I wonder if the point I made about BHX being good at introductory fees but poor at staying power has come into play once more?

[sarah19981]

Originally Posted by LAX_LHR

Also I don't think Air India will pull BHX to start MAN. It would be quite a disaster for BHX if that were to happen, and I don't think Mr Kehoe would let it happen after all the work he and his team put in to lure them back.

If there is any element of truth to the story, however, I wonder if the point I made about BHX being good at introductory fees but poor at staying power has come into play once more?

Lax-LHR when contacting air India the sales teams don't have a clue about Manchester but the mangers do as they are saying that the ANNOUCMENT on Manchester flights will happen 3 months prior to starting operations. I think 4-5 months is safer isn't it?
Also as far as I have heard from general romours etc everything is in place and waiting for final approval.
I think things are in place and air India are set to go once all confirmations are In place from both sides such as Manchester airport and air India...

[nigel osborne]

Techair,

I would have thought they already had a detailed masterplan in place ?.

Very surprised therefore to hear they are just getting a team together,and now looking at a preliminary outline as to what might happen .

Manchester is one of the busiest, fastest expanding airports in the UK and Europe. The MAG group you would think are hardly short of money.

You would have thought that expansion work on providing new aprons etc would already be up and running.

Lets hope they get a move on so the infrastructure keeps up with the pace of the current expansion.

Very odd ?

Nigel

[Centre cities]

AI

(rumours elsewhere that Air India are about to drop BHX and open at MAN. We've heard about them looking at MAN before but this is the first I've heard of it being a replacement to BHX.)

The figures at BHX are very good. Numerous airlines co exist at MAN and BHX. When AA started JFK from BHX did that mean the loss of a MAN flight, I do not think so.

AI will have the geographic area of the passengers using the service, perhaps not many are from the MAN area. Therefore what are these passengers using, London or much more likely the Middle East carriers that offer connections i.e. EK etc.

The UK market is a good one for AI and still has plenty of VFR traffic between the countries. Additionally AI is looking to develop a hub at Delhi.

A Manchester service will I am sure come in the not to distant future but I feel as a valuable addition to the network.

Centre cities

[LAX_LHR]

Europe?s busiest airports 5% growth in long-haul capacity


So, MAN the 11th busiest long haul airport in Europe this summer, and the 5th fastest long haul growth airport (interestingly just 0.2% behind IST considering how fast that airport is growing).


Not a bad position to be in, and with some long haul growth already annouced for 2016, lets see if the momentum can continue

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

I would certainly NOT like to see Air India's BHX ops transferred to MAN. As a consequence of ethnic distribution, the West Midlands has a very strong case for offering non-stop schedules to India. If flights switched to MAN it would likely be just a matter of time until BHX lured them back. That is not helpful to either city.

What I would welcome is a standalone Air India operation from MAN in addition to the BHX scheduled service. The North-West is home to a population of ethnic Indians, albeit on a smaller scale than in the Midlands (ethnic Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are more concentrated in the North West). And it is important to facilitate trade with India, a key BRIC nation with a long history of links to the UK. Finally, but not least, India is very much on the tourist trail. The risk of terrorist incidents remains a threat to the long term health of Indian tourism. But barring this, the Delhi - Agra - Jaipur triangle is one of the classic tourist itineraries on the planet, before even considering popular beach destinations such as Goa and Kerala. Plus, India is a magnet for certain niche tourism markets such as enthusiasts of steam railways.

MAN should strive to build its own scheduled link to India. But it should not be a replacement for the larger West Midlands market.

[GavinC]

MAN long haul looking strong

double post

[LAX_LHR]

Article already posted above Gavin.....

[Fairdealfrank]

So something that should have been done years ago, is at a stage where two teams are standing around a big table basically looking at a fag packet sketch. How long will these phases now take, then building work. Patience is the watchword, lack of planning is the fact.

So well ahead of the LHR third rwy then.

Aer Lingus and IAG

So - what impact do posters think the swallowing of Aer Lingus by IAG will have on MAN and the UK regions ? Yes it's still subject to some rubber stamps but with the Irish Govt now on side it's essentially a done deal.

Is it all about the LHR slots, or is there a lot more at play here ? Apparently part of the deal to gain the Irish Government's approval is that EI (or IAG) will open another four North American routes from DUB next year. The build up of DUB capacity from MAN, BHX and other UK points next winter appears well timed.

It’s not about LHR slots, BA has more than it can handle with the takeover and closing of BD, hence the increase in its shorthaul holiday routes from there. AFAIK, this is because of a current shortage of suitable aircraft which, once resolved, should see the commencment of new longhaul routes.

Because of the shortage of rwy capacity at LHR, more UK airports are connected to AMS and DUB than to LHR, and consequently, EI and KL take a great deal of transfer pax that, given sufficient LHR rwy capacity and therefore sufficient links to smaller UK airports, could be BA’s.

Buying EI gives IAG an opportunity to grab some of this transfer traffic. Equally important, it prevents another carrier from doing so.

Meanwhile long awaited plans for redeveloping the terminals at MAN continue to inch along. Hmmm...

Can’t comment on the other terminals, but MAN-3 does need some attention, and soon.

I would expect BA to reduce frequency between LHR and several of the UK regions to free up slots and EI to fill the gap.

That actually doesn’t make sense: if EI fills the gap if BA reduces frequencies on its UK domestic routes then no (IAG) slots are freed up.

The deal with the Irish Government requires IAG to use its EI LHR slots for DUB, SNN and ORK. Only BHD could be freed up for this, but there's no need and no point.

EI are only an alternative on the North Atlantic though, BA will still want PAX heading east. I would also expect BA to reduce or drop LHR-DUB, freeing up slots for expansion to China, which is the next big nut to crack for them.

BA doesn’t need more slots at LHR (see above), so there's no need to reduce frequencies on LHR-DUB. The only consolidation may occur where BA and EI have flights leaving at the same time or within minutes of each other. Seat availibility could be maintained by the use of larger aircraft (e.g. a shorthaul BA B767 or an EI A330).

North America is a huge market for IAG and pre-clearance at DUB could be attractive to pax. Having options at LHR (BA) and at DUB (EI) has to be a good business proposition for IAG.

Expansion in China can only happen when BA has the suitable aircraft (see above).

rumours elsewhere that Air India are about to drop BHX and open at MAN. We've heard about them looking at MAN before but this is the first I've heard of it being a replacement to BHX.

That would be surprising, there’s probably more traffic between BHX and ATQ/DEL than between MAN and ATQ/DEL, and the route is doing well enough to become daily, despite being a lowish yield VFR route.

There’s no suggestion of flights between BHX or MAN and BOM (business route).

So maybe BHX and MAN, can’t see MAN instead of BHX.

Air India are in Star Alliance so could be looking for connections on United, TAP and SAS via MAN? Other connections are feasible but backwards such as on Lufthansa. I wonder if Flybe are also offering connections via their MAN hub?

For connecting pax, AI could use the Star Alliance hub at LHR-2, it's much bigger.

[nigel osborne]

Shed on a pole.

Remember some years back AI were to restart their Birmingham flights and with just weeks to go did a deal to operate from Manchester instead.

Perhaps one of the most unpredictable airlines out their, so wouldn't put it past them to do the unexpected.

Agree with you BHX service is very good and Bham has a large Sikh population wanting to travel to Amritsar.

Certainly hope that MAN also gets AI this winter and that they keep the very popular BHX flts too.


Nigel