MANCHESTER 1
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(MAN-DUB-USA on EI is usually significantly cheaper than pretty much any other alternative).
Another airline that could be affected is Icelandair, who I gather also have very competitive fares from MAN to the US.
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Thomas Cook SIX Based A330-200's
Outstanding news from Thomas Cook. Whilst the headlines will understandably focus on Los Angeles and Boston, we should not overlook the increases on TCX's other MAN-USA routes. At peak we are looking at 25 departures per week to the USA alone (and TCX are big players to the Caribbean as well). I am taking "daily to Orlando" as meaning 7 departures per week, but do they actually plan two flights on certain days? So the base-case would be MCO 7, LAS 6, JFK 6, MIA 2, BOS 2, LAX 2. Each operated by one of SIX 322-seat A330-200's based at MAN. 25 departures per week implies 8050 return seats weekly to the USA by TCX. Obviously, this programme will reduce markedly in low-season ... but these days that is also true of AAL / UAL and the rest.
For perspective, let's recall that the on-again / off-again service to Beijing proposed by Hainan Airlines is for 4 departures per week by lower-capacity A332's. Yes, Beijing is a prestige destination which features highly on many wishlists ... but isn't that also true of Los Angeles? Those other five US cities aren't bad either!
American Airlines' Summer 2015 programme features 21 departures per week from MAN [14 x B763, 7 x A332]. This may change by Summer 2016 - we don't know yet - but if not, the Thomas Cook MAN-USA programme will significantly exceed that offered by AAL. United Airlines [14 x B752] is trailing way behind. Only the Virgin / Delta partnership is in the same ballpark as Thomas Cook.
I note j636's comment that BOS needs to be at least 4x weekly to work. That reflects the needs of the business traveller. But Thomas Cook is a leisure-focused operation. They know their core-market - vacationers - and set out their wares to suit. I'm sure that TCX will be delighted if business travellers choose to book seats with them, but leisure travellers will make or break the route. Boston actually offers great short-break potential as well as being a great base for New England fly-drives and the VFR market. Those customers can work around two departure choices per week in a way the business traveller cannot.
Thomas Cook and Thomson Airways are the only two MAN-USA carriers which don't have at least some vested interest in filling surplus Y-capacity dumped at LHR as a by-product of offering high frequency departures aimed at business travellers in London. This TCX move will make a noticeable dent in the easy pickings hoovered up from the North to this end. AAL/BAW and UAL may be uninterested in making a real effort to retain leisure market-share originating in this region (including the LHR feed), but if they do want to hang in they're going to have to compete. The Virgin / Delta partnership already addresses MAN's leisure-heavy market very well, so they are well-placed to compete with Thomas Cook's programme. Thomson appears content to maintain it's Florida niche which should not present a problem.
The plans for increased interlining onto TCX's long-haul programme is also notable with SAS and DLH specified in the MEN report. We have FlyBe in the mix too. This ties in nicely with Thomas Cook's proposed long-haul hub concept which we first read about two to three years ago but which had gone very quiet. I wonder if this also means that connecting eastbound flows to destinations in the Indian Ocean etc. will be similarly encouraged over Frankfurt?
Whilst some of us have waited patiently for a 'saviour' such as Norwegian or Ryanair long-haul to deliver us from the "fill-the-back-end-ex-LHR" cartel, Thomas Cook has quietly stepped forward and delivered. Congratulations TCX/MAG and good luck with the new services.
EDIT: I note that LAX_LHR has confirmed TCX's MAN-MCO frequency as 8 departures per week. Based on this, TCX will be offering 26 departures weekly on MAN-USA routes representing 8372 return seats. As our American friends would say: "AWESOME!!!"
For perspective, let's recall that the on-again / off-again service to Beijing proposed by Hainan Airlines is for 4 departures per week by lower-capacity A332's. Yes, Beijing is a prestige destination which features highly on many wishlists ... but isn't that also true of Los Angeles? Those other five US cities aren't bad either!
American Airlines' Summer 2015 programme features 21 departures per week from MAN [14 x B763, 7 x A332]. This may change by Summer 2016 - we don't know yet - but if not, the Thomas Cook MAN-USA programme will significantly exceed that offered by AAL. United Airlines [14 x B752] is trailing way behind. Only the Virgin / Delta partnership is in the same ballpark as Thomas Cook.
I note j636's comment that BOS needs to be at least 4x weekly to work. That reflects the needs of the business traveller. But Thomas Cook is a leisure-focused operation. They know their core-market - vacationers - and set out their wares to suit. I'm sure that TCX will be delighted if business travellers choose to book seats with them, but leisure travellers will make or break the route. Boston actually offers great short-break potential as well as being a great base for New England fly-drives and the VFR market. Those customers can work around two departure choices per week in a way the business traveller cannot.
Thomas Cook and Thomson Airways are the only two MAN-USA carriers which don't have at least some vested interest in filling surplus Y-capacity dumped at LHR as a by-product of offering high frequency departures aimed at business travellers in London. This TCX move will make a noticeable dent in the easy pickings hoovered up from the North to this end. AAL/BAW and UAL may be uninterested in making a real effort to retain leisure market-share originating in this region (including the LHR feed), but if they do want to hang in they're going to have to compete. The Virgin / Delta partnership already addresses MAN's leisure-heavy market very well, so they are well-placed to compete with Thomas Cook's programme. Thomson appears content to maintain it's Florida niche which should not present a problem.
The plans for increased interlining onto TCX's long-haul programme is also notable with SAS and DLH specified in the MEN report. We have FlyBe in the mix too. This ties in nicely with Thomas Cook's proposed long-haul hub concept which we first read about two to three years ago but which had gone very quiet. I wonder if this also means that connecting eastbound flows to destinations in the Indian Ocean etc. will be similarly encouraged over Frankfurt?
Whilst some of us have waited patiently for a 'saviour' such as Norwegian or Ryanair long-haul to deliver us from the "fill-the-back-end-ex-LHR" cartel, Thomas Cook has quietly stepped forward and delivered. Congratulations TCX/MAG and good luck with the new services.
EDIT: I note that LAX_LHR has confirmed TCX's MAN-MCO frequency as 8 departures per week. Based on this, TCX will be offering 26 departures weekly on MAN-USA routes representing 8372 return seats. As our American friends would say: "AWESOME!!!"
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 5th May 2015 at 14:15. Reason: MCO frequency updated.
Thanks for that LAX, I never knew EI hoovered up a big chunk of MAN pax, I always just assumed it was the smaller UK regions with no or limited trans Atlantic connectivity that they targeted. As long as APD remains, they'll still have an advantage in pricing here. Same with Icelandair
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TCX
Brilliant AND more importantly the link to FlyBe AND LH which I "think" we can all thank LAX for flagging up at its embryonic stage 12+ months back !
Can I just clarify my criticism was aimed purely at our MPs in the context of the election............they are actually paid to influence government in support of jobs, and investment on behalf of the local electorate at a local level as well as represent our opinion at a national issues.
Now would seem the one and only opportunity to pin them down on certain issues which they can influence at Westminster Eg APD / Scotland !
That was 100% clear so no need for any respondees to skew my comments and suggest it was anything other than that !
Brilliant AND more importantly the link to FlyBe AND LH which I "think" we can all thank LAX for flagging up at its embryonic stage 12+ months back !
Can I just clarify my criticism was aimed purely at our MPs in the context of the election............they are actually paid to influence government in support of jobs, and investment on behalf of the local electorate at a local level as well as represent our opinion at a national issues.
Now would seem the one and only opportunity to pin them down on certain issues which they can influence at Westminster Eg APD / Scotland !
That was 100% clear so no need for any respondees to skew my comments and suggest it was anything other than that !
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but EI and its connections will (in fact I would not be at all surprised to see a price fightback, and, if it does happen backs this up).
It's the likes of AA/UA/DL who are under cutting TCX, those will suffer a lot more. Eg - United offer return MCO for under 500 in July while TCX average at 650.
Is that based on through ticketing LAX, or separate tickets to save APD on the L/H sector from DUB?
Another airline that could be affected is Icelandair, who I gather also have very competitive fares from MAN to the US.
Another airline that could be affected is Icelandair, who I gather also have very competitive fares from MAN to the US.
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TXX long haul
Great news for Manchester and for the North. If TCX are to base 6 A330 next year, will they pretty much own the old Pier C for much of each morning?
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Memo to MAG:
In the light of today's announcement by Thomas Cook Airlines, and further to rumours regarding major expansion of the T2 facility, any chance of including plans for a US pre-clearance immigration set-up within the extended complex? Maybe THIS is something that our region's MP's could really help with as there would be regulatory hurdles to be overcome. But the opportunity is there ... if MAG has the foresight and drive to plan ahead and negotiate the necessary approvals before construction work begins.
In the light of today's announcement by Thomas Cook Airlines, and further to rumours regarding major expansion of the T2 facility, any chance of including plans for a US pre-clearance immigration set-up within the extended complex? Maybe THIS is something that our region's MP's could really help with as there would be regulatory hurdles to be overcome. But the opportunity is there ... if MAG has the foresight and drive to plan ahead and negotiate the necessary approvals before construction work begins.
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EI-A330-300,
If you had taken a few more seconds to read my post rather than prematurely hit the 'defend Aer Lingus' button, you will see that I was talking about EI at MAN in isolation, not that TCX at MAN would affect Aer Lingus in its entirity.
In terms of TCX and its now confirmed schedule:
JFK 6 weekly
MIA 2 weekly
BOS 2 weekly
LAX 2 weekly
MCO 8 weekly
LAS 6 weekly
CCC 1 weekly
PUJ 2 weekly
HOG 2 weekly
VRA 1 weekly
CUN 4 weekly
thats 36 weekly flights to 11 destinations.
GOI/BGI/ANU/UVF winter only
If you had taken a few more seconds to read my post rather than prematurely hit the 'defend Aer Lingus' button, you will see that I was talking about EI at MAN in isolation, not that TCX at MAN would affect Aer Lingus in its entirity.
In terms of TCX and its now confirmed schedule:
JFK 6 weekly
MIA 2 weekly
BOS 2 weekly
LAX 2 weekly
MCO 8 weekly
LAS 6 weekly
CCC 1 weekly
PUJ 2 weekly
HOG 2 weekly
VRA 1 weekly
CUN 4 weekly
thats 36 weekly flights to 11 destinations.
GOI/BGI/ANU/UVF winter only
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Google Flights is possibly now the best search engine as you can actually choose "Best Price" OR "Non Stop" much more obvious than most sites.
Plus i'm not sure pax would necessarily go straight to price, maybe they would compare ?
I'm sure Thomas Cook have a large gravitational following in terms of punters who might not even look elsewhere other than the Thomas Cook website a known well understood brand !
Ps Shed, perish the thought your not recycling issues like me based on new and continually "changing" information !
Plus i'm not sure pax would necessarily go straight to price, maybe they would compare ?
I'm sure Thomas Cook have a large gravitational following in terms of punters who might not even look elsewhere other than the Thomas Cook website a known well understood brand !
Ps Shed, perish the thought your not recycling issues like me based on new and continually "changing" information !
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Yes, Bagso. I'm keen on recycling!
Just picking up on the whole internet fare comparisons issue ... one of Thomas Cook's major advantages (alongside Thomson) is the company's retained ability to market its products face-to-face via its chain of traditional high-street travel agencies. For the likes of us who regularly haunt PPRuNe, it is easy to forget that there remains a loyal (often well-off / older) clientele who like to book their holidays in the traditional way. I suspect that the high-street agents will redouble their efforts to spread the word amongst their regulars and help make this programme successful.
Just picking up on the whole internet fare comparisons issue ... one of Thomas Cook's major advantages (alongside Thomson) is the company's retained ability to market its products face-to-face via its chain of traditional high-street travel agencies. For the likes of us who regularly haunt PPRuNe, it is easy to forget that there remains a loyal (often well-off / older) clientele who like to book their holidays in the traditional way. I suspect that the high-street agents will redouble their efforts to spread the word amongst their regulars and help make this programme successful.
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Thomson Comparison
Inspired by LAX_LHR's summary of TCX's Summer 2016 Transatlantic programme, I decided to scan Thomson's parallel offerings to see how they compare.
Thomson offers just three weekly departures from MAN to the USA using Sanford FL (SFB). There are five weekly departures to Mexico: Cancun 4, Puerto Vallarta 1. The Caribbean sees four weekly flights: Puerto Plata 1, Punta Cana 2, Aruba 1. This total of 12 departures weekly is similar to Summer 2015, although Cancun appears to drop one weekly frequency in favour of the new once weekly Aruba operation.
Thomson's programme of 12 Transatlantic departures per week is quite respectable in its own right ... some eye-watering fares for Summer 2015 too, so it must be selling well. But I hadn't realised quite how much they had fallen behind Thomas Cook for long-haul from Manchester.
Thomson offers just three weekly departures from MAN to the USA using Sanford FL (SFB). There are five weekly departures to Mexico: Cancun 4, Puerto Vallarta 1. The Caribbean sees four weekly flights: Puerto Plata 1, Punta Cana 2, Aruba 1. This total of 12 departures weekly is similar to Summer 2015, although Cancun appears to drop one weekly frequency in favour of the new once weekly Aruba operation.
Thomson's programme of 12 Transatlantic departures per week is quite respectable in its own right ... some eye-watering fares for Summer 2015 too, so it must be selling well. But I hadn't realised quite how much they had fallen behind Thomas Cook for long-haul from Manchester.
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Homo Simpson
You asked for evidence !
I have held back waiting for the TCX excitement to die down but if you want evidence that change can be made thru sites such as this do have a look at Visit britain !
I ranted ad nauseum on here and harvested various PMs from punters who agreed, this went TO them.......
"they acknowledged this helpful information"
and suprise, suprise have a look today !
Home page banner now changes daily , not fixed to London, today it featured The Lake District !
Other spots Eg Chatsworth House "up North" are now much more prominent
All UK airports including Manchester now acknowledged.
Twitter feed now covers much more of the UK AND shock, horror included Manchester last month !
The whole feel of the site feels more inclusive and most importantly there is an acknowledgment that you can use MAN over LHR to get nearer to the sites they now promote.
That in my book is a major result, pure coincidence ...but of course, but hey ho Manchester Airport simply has to benefit
from such changes !
Ps ......not sure we will get hordes of punters from LA on the TCX but what the hell you never know !
You asked for evidence !
I have held back waiting for the TCX excitement to die down but if you want evidence that change can be made thru sites such as this do have a look at Visit britain !
- 12 months ago it had a wholly London bias, imagery, channelling almost ALL inward tourist who viewed thru THRU Heathrow The "main UK airport"
- LHR had its own dedicated page, in my view this was at the expense of
other airports but specifically my patch Manchester. - The twitter feed featured London, London and er London
- There was little coverage of tourist hot spots around Manchester !
I ranted ad nauseum on here and harvested various PMs from punters who agreed, this went TO them.......
"they acknowledged this helpful information"
and suprise, suprise have a look today !
Home page banner now changes daily , not fixed to London, today it featured The Lake District !
Other spots Eg Chatsworth House "up North" are now much more prominent
All UK airports including Manchester now acknowledged.
Twitter feed now covers much more of the UK AND shock, horror included Manchester last month !
The whole feel of the site feels more inclusive and most importantly there is an acknowledgment that you can use MAN over LHR to get nearer to the sites they now promote.
That in my book is a major result, pure coincidence ...but of course, but hey ho Manchester Airport simply has to benefit
from such changes !
Ps ......not sure we will get hordes of punters from LA on the TCX but what the hell you never know !
Last edited by Bagso; 5th May 2015 at 20:08.
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Memo to MAG:
In the light of today's announcement by Thomas Cook Airlines, and further to rumours regarding major expansion of the T2 facility, any chance of including plans for a US pre-clearance immigration set-up within the extended complex? Maybe THIS is something that our region's MP's could really help with as there would be regulatory hurdles to be overcome. But the opportunity is there ... if MAG has the foresight and drive to plan ahead and negotiate the necessary approvals before construction work begins.
In the light of today's announcement by Thomas Cook Airlines, and further to rumours regarding major expansion of the T2 facility, any chance of including plans for a US pre-clearance immigration set-up within the extended complex? Maybe THIS is something that our region's MP's could really help with as there would be regulatory hurdles to be overcome. But the opportunity is there ... if MAG has the foresight and drive to plan ahead and negotiate the necessary approvals before construction work begins.
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If TCX are to base 6 A330 next year, will they pretty much own the old Pier C for much of each morning?
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March / April stats
Although the increase in terminal pax for April of 1.62% compared to March's 9.58% may on the surface seem disappointing, I'm sure the fact that Easter fell 2 weeks earlier this year (with many pax starting their holidays in March) has made a significant impact. However, freight was up 8.62% in March and a healthy 10.31% in April.
Actually, with the cessation of Little Red flights and some new services not starting until later in the summer - easyjet's new routes with 9th based a/c, Vueling, Iberia Express and DL to JFK for example - combined with the ACL report indicating a modest 1.3% increase in seat capacity for the summer, I wouldn't have been surprised had April been negative. Over the 2 months growth averaged about 5.4% which I reckon is pretty good.
Although the increase in terminal pax for April of 1.62% compared to March's 9.58% may on the surface seem disappointing, I'm sure the fact that Easter fell 2 weeks earlier this year (with many pax starting their holidays in March) has made a significant impact. However, freight was up 8.62% in March and a healthy 10.31% in April.
Actually, with the cessation of Little Red flights and some new services not starting until later in the summer - easyjet's new routes with 9th based a/c, Vueling, Iberia Express and DL to JFK for example - combined with the ACL report indicating a modest 1.3% increase in seat capacity for the summer, I wouldn't have been surprised had April been negative. Over the 2 months growth averaged about 5.4% which I reckon is pretty good.