MANCHESTER 1

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by LAX_LHR

Christ on a bike, some people will never be pleased.

We wait years for a Beijing link, we finally get it and still people turn their nose up.

I've seen 'the schedule is poor', 'the plane isn't big enough' and more.

I'm sure Hainan have done their homework (Christ they have had long enough to check and double check), so I'm sure there will be people who will be happy with the service.

Let's give the route a chance shall we. You never know, a beloved afternoon/evening flight may materialise if the morning flight proves itself.

Couldn't agree more! But it's not a trait of the MAN thread, check just about any thread, and you'll see any one of the following whenever a new service is announced:-

Wrong days
Wrong times
Wrong type
Wrong airline
Wrong destination

If all the amateurs (of whom I am one) ran airports and airlines, then of course, everything in the garden would be wonderful!! Sadly for us, in the main, professionals run the industry so it's got no chance

[chaps1954]

ATNotts
I love it lol!
Or perhaps wrong passengers

Ian

[LAX_LHR]

Because it's a route that so clearly is in dire need of more capacity, Air Europa will operate a Thursday Palma, and Small planet will run a Saturday flight from the end of May.

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

My opinion is that in reality the only people that want the morning schedule are the spotters. There is a reason why flights from PEK to Europe leave mid afternoon and that is a relatively short flight crossing 7 or 8 time zones.

One average I do 5 Asia - Europe returns per year and always look for late evening off Europe and lunchtime off Asia, there is less of a jetlag problem, and before someone cites the 'perfect for business schedule BS' I am in business and of the firm belief that people do not perform at their best when they have just got off a plane at 6am!

[Skipness One Echo]

Sadly for us, in the main, professionals run the industry so it's got no chance

Most airlines don't make it past the six month mark of existence.
A lot of airlines are deluged by political interference (amateurs). See Malaysia and er Air China (!) However privately owned Hainan may actually be, this was still the same group that flew Gatwick-Hong Kong in summer 2012 on an all business class A332 that lasted one season. No gold mine there despite what all the planning suggested. (or it was ignored)
Now MAN-PEK is a market that should do well, quite how keen people will be to connect with flybe on a second hand Dash 8 is something I am going to have to be persuaded on however.

The optimal timing is actually a late afternoon arrival and an evening departure, this feels geared to leisure, and perhaps that may work well in this market. I don't see too many high spenders moving from existing alliance options or shiny ME3 connections as things stand. However they're going to drive a lot of new traffic which is going to be a good thing IMHO.

Was hoping for Air China as they at least have alliance connectvity and points gathering potential for frequent fliers. The timing is also not geared for business travellers so far as I can see, however the proof of the pudding will be coming soon and it'll be great to see them at MAN.

[LAX_LHR]

Who says its the spotters want morning flights? I'm sure that's exactly the market research Hainan did. They went round the perimeter of MAN and asked the spotters what time they want the flights to arrive.

If we were to break it down into patronising groups, the spotters would probably prefer afternoon flights for better photgraphs and lie ins etc. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess not one of the spotters is relishing a 0605 scheduled arrival, but possibly 0535 and earlier possibility, but, there we go.

I think people are just happy there is a flight from Manchester-Beijing full stop. As said, I'm sure Hainan have done their homework, so, will just wait and see.

As said, Cathay seem to be filling the planes with such 'appalling' times, so, many people are evidently happy with the timings.

What's interesting is that the B787 and A350 were heralded as the long and thin route saviours, but, it's the tried and tested A330/B777 that are opening the long routes. A330 on Los Angeles and Beijing, B777 on Hong Kong. In terms of Manchester, only one route has been opened with the B787 in mind, and that was Puerta Vallerta. The rest of our long haul has come from the regular means.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Moan Moan Moan

Hainan seem to have made BRU - PVG work pretty damn well with a schedule and timings almost identical to those proposed for MAN.

Still, some seem to think MAN is a special case.

Maybe it's the objectors who are a touch "special..."

[FFHKG]

Can't see what all the fuss about timings is about.... departure not much later than CX out of HKG. Just check the schedules for a few Asia airports and you will find numerous departures between 23.59 and 02.00. From experience, these often have LF's around 90% or more so timing does not deter Asian passengers.

From a personal point of view, this departure time lets you have a full day of meetings in Beijing (or elsewhere in China if connecting through PEK), a leisurely dinner and a shower in the hotel, and then a taxi to the airport when Beijing's appalling traffic is at its lightest.

Some people are never satisfied... the world is never going to be perfect, and Hainan need to fit this service into their schedules to ensure high aircraft utilisation. It's better to have this service than none whatsoever (and I am certain that Birmingham would have welcomed this service at whatever times HN was prepared to arrive/depart)

Anyway, I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of those making comments about the timing of this flight will be people who will never use it anyway!

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

In other news Icelandair are increasing to 6 flights a week from February 03rd, Tuesday will be the only day without a flight. Doesn't appear to continue for Summer 16 which still shows 4 flights, but early days.

Late Winter / Early Spring is peak period for 'Northern Lights' tourism to Iceland. I understand that visitors have a statistically improved chance of witnessing the phenomenon at this time of year. It is big business for Icelandair at a time of year when they don't need as much capacity deployed on routes dominated by Summer demand. In Summer they will arrange schedules to best feed their US - Iceland - Europe model.

[LAX_LHR]

So, let's have a look at the 'awful' timings and the fact that 'no one will like them'

Beijing-Europe from 00:00-02:00

Istanbul x2
Madrid
Munich
Paris CDG
Amsterdam
Brussels
Baku
Vienna.

Hong-Kong - Europe 00:00-02:00

Paris
London
Amsterdam
Frankfurt
Rome
Manchester
Helsinki
Milan
Düsseldorf
Zurich

So, it's clear that the 0145 departure isn't quite as bad and 'out on a limb' as being made out. Or are we going to suggest that all the routes above are just purely leisure routes?

[Logohu]

Thanks Shed. I knew there must be some reason why folk would want to go to Iceland in February - I just couldn't think of one ! Now it makes sense...

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

My opinion is that in reality the only people that want the morning schedule are the spotters.

Hmmm ... let's just think about that for a moment. 06:05 scheduled long-haul arrival. Deduct the time spent taxying from runway to stand. Allow for the customary arrival upto one hour earlier because such flights rarely use up their generous contingency to protect their on-time record. That puts this flight arriving at MAN in the hours of darkness for most of the year. So the spotters can observe a red flashing light flying down the approach if they can be bothered to interrupt their sleep. Photographers can just slumber on. The departure time falls during the single runway ops period at MAN which complicates matters for photographers. I think we can safely rule out the notion that spotters were angling for these particular timings, though most will enthusiastically welcome news of this new service as one would expect.

quite how keen people will be to connect with flybe on a second hand Dash 8 is something I am going to have to be persuaded on however.

I think it is fair to say that many contributors to PPRuNe are self-confessed 'Avgeeks' including the two of us, Skipness. But 99% of passengers are not. I'd be amazed if 1 in 1000 FlyBe pax could tell whether their purple DH8D is ex-Republic or a FlyBe original. And even if they could, why would they care? FlyBe offers practical connecting opportunities to/from destinations such as EXT / BHD / IOM / ABZ etc at times and prices which work well for most customers. And the DH8D is a type well-suited to the role it fulfils ... nothing wrong with it. Though of course most punters couldn't tell us what type they were booked on either at the booking stage or just after they've disembarked. It is of absolutely no consequence to most travellers.

[FFHKG]

A few pages back, it was also suggested that HN would introduce a MAN/PVG flight.... not sure where that info came from. Is that a connection through PEK onto the flights already announced or another route yet to be announced?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Because it's a route that so clearly is in dire need of more capacity, Air Europa will operate a Thursday Palma, and Small planet will run a Saturday flight from the end of May.

I suspect that your comment may be slightly tongue-in-cheek there, LAX! But as an anecdote, I flew PMI-MAN on the Condor Flug B753 service in late September (long after the schools had gone back). A check-in supervisor advised me that the flight was overbooked and offered me EUR200 to fly to BHX with taxi to MAN instead. They couldn't offer a seat on any of the [many] alternative flights operating to MAN that day. I chose to stick with CFG4711.

Given that many holidaymakers are becoming nervous about the security situation affecting some mainstream Mediterranean destinations (eg. Tunisia), perhaps there is a good case for adding capacity to the reliable old favourites.

[Bagso]

"Potential passenger in Beijing books Beijing - via MAN to Aberdeen but realising the Manchester Aberdeen leg is with a FlyBe Dash , they decide to rebook"

Words fail me....

[Skipness One Echo]

So, let's have a look at the 'awful' timings and the fact that 'no one will like them'

No they're sub optimal in a competitive trading environment, don't out words into people's mouths.

"Potential passenger in Beijing books Beijing - via MAN to Aberdeen but realising the Manchester Aberdeen leg is with a FlyBe Dash , they decide to rebook"
Words fail me....

Let me help. If he's a leisure traveller then no worries, student fare, twice a year, who cares? If he's oil industry collecting points as he travels the world, this isn't as competitive as it might be.

As said, Cathay seem to be filling the planes with such 'appalling' times, so, many people are evidently happy with the timings.

HKG starts going West at midnight as that's the earliest flights can get away for the curfew or sensible arrival time in Europe. HKG is a true 24 hour operation with Cathay coming and going all night. Does Hainan have the same at PEK? Genuine question, haven't been yet, so long as people are kicking their heels for hours at PEK it's not a deal breaker in many markets.

[LAX_LHR]

Sub optimal times? Again, how can ALL of the flights listed be sub-optimal? Who's filling them if they are so god damn awful.

Seems there are plenty of people willing to travel on these 'sub-optimal' times, 19 flights in that short bank alone is a fair amount of capacity. You don't expect anyone to believe they are all leisure travellers on super cheap tickets?

It also incredibly amusing to see that any potential codeshare with flybe is also being subject to the 'upturned nose syndrome'

People question who would connect at MAN to the likes of ABZ using Dash-8's. It's a one hour flight FFS, hardly an ordeal! Is it the single class service?

That's right, any potential flyer travelling say, ABZ-LHR-PEK wouldn't be subject to a single class service for the first portion of the journey on BA, would they? Oh...hang on.....

[Bagso]

Just looking at the schedule for the Chinese Premiers visit Friday from the MEN it "appears" very Manchester focused.

I hope there is some input from the wider business community + tourism etc from across Northern England especially with a route announcement imminent.

Manchester is seen in some cities as leading the charge in terms of maximsing its status as thee City outside London, but some humility would be a very savvy way to garner max publicity in those locations.

[LAX_LHR]

The Hainan flights are now fully bookable on the airlines website.

[airchina787]

for one I am finally happy that we will get this link - its been a long time in the planning -

times are bloody good!

for me living in Beijing i finish work at 20:30 , means i can have dinner with friends as i only live 20 mins from the airport , go to the airport , arrive home next morning (Stoke on Trent) for breakfast and have the whole day ahead of me.

I've checked Hainan airlines China website and it is still showing via BRU so not sure whats going on there.

think it will come down to cost now -