MANCHESTER 1
Join Date: May 2005
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AA's JFK and ORD routes have suffered from a shockingly bad dispatch reliability this summer from MAN - I'm not sure how that may affect the figures but can't be good for consumer confidence in the product.
AA's JFK and ORD routes have suffered from a shockingly bad dispatch reliability this summer from MAN
I guess when it all hits the fan and AA Operations Control have choices to make then disrupting MAN is an operationally easy decision for them as passengers can simply be shuttled via LHR. But like you say, when this starts happening too regularly it can do nothing for customer confidence in the product.
If I were a cynic (
) it would appear that AA almost want the routes to fail, but I'm sure that's not the case. I know they've tarted up the cabins of their 767s this summer, but that's of no use whatsoever if the flights can't be relied on to operate to the published schedule
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
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US routes and figures
The fragmenting of the UK non-London to NYC market by new services from BHX and NCL cannot have helped either. Don't really understand the objectives of AA and UA in not consolidating and building their MAN services, surely this would be more profitable?
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I would suggest that folk from the BHX and NCL catchment areas are perhaps fed up of having to travel to MAN/LHR to get to the US, although both still have a large amount of leakage for the EK flights, something that NCL and BHX have to address.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
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And on cue as it were re AA, their JFK flight this morning scheduled for 07.30 is not expected until 11.15. The BHX flight landed on time so presumably it wasn't a weather issue.
Sorry if it means a glass half empty, but surely AA will be taking a close look at JFK & PHL and whether a wide-body a/c is required on both routes, if indeed both can be justified. Yield and freight carried will of course be key factors.
In so far as seat maps on the morning of departure show some sort of picture, then based on the last few weeks, the take up of the 20 J class seats on PHL is noticeably better than is being achieved with the 28 new seats on JFK. In economy, however, PHL seems to have far more empty seats, which incidentally also applies to some of the LHR flights. I guess the mix of O&D as opposed to transfer pax will also be a factor.
On a brighter note, despite being down on May last year UA achieved a LF of 85% on EWR, and with an average load of 219, VS was 82% on ATL.
The ME3 all showed increases compared to May last year.
EK was up 4% with an average load of 338.
EY up 1% with an average of 223 pax
QR (now double daily) up 25% with an average of 175.
SV was 185 pax per flight.
With Easter boosting April traffic, average loads were quite a bit lower in May which is traditionally a quieter month for the ME3. As a/c type tends to vary with B777/A332 for EY, and the occasional A333 for QR, I've not tried to calculate LFs.
CX, despite less pax in May than April, still managed a LF of 80%.
Some strange variations on short haul too. In Scandinavia for example, pax to CPH and HEL decreased but the routes to Sweden and Norway were up.
AMS was boosted by the flybe flights.
Edit: I agree with the points made about likely leakage to BHX and NCL on account of their new flights to New York.
Sorry if it means a glass half empty, but surely AA will be taking a close look at JFK & PHL and whether a wide-body a/c is required on both routes, if indeed both can be justified. Yield and freight carried will of course be key factors.
In so far as seat maps on the morning of departure show some sort of picture, then based on the last few weeks, the take up of the 20 J class seats on PHL is noticeably better than is being achieved with the 28 new seats on JFK. In economy, however, PHL seems to have far more empty seats, which incidentally also applies to some of the LHR flights. I guess the mix of O&D as opposed to transfer pax will also be a factor.
On a brighter note, despite being down on May last year UA achieved a LF of 85% on EWR, and with an average load of 219, VS was 82% on ATL.
The ME3 all showed increases compared to May last year.
EK was up 4% with an average load of 338.
EY up 1% with an average of 223 pax
QR (now double daily) up 25% with an average of 175.
SV was 185 pax per flight.
With Easter boosting April traffic, average loads were quite a bit lower in May which is traditionally a quieter month for the ME3. As a/c type tends to vary with B777/A332 for EY, and the occasional A333 for QR, I've not tried to calculate LFs.
CX, despite less pax in May than April, still managed a LF of 80%.
Some strange variations on short haul too. In Scandinavia for example, pax to CPH and HEL decreased but the routes to Sweden and Norway were up.
AMS was boosted by the flybe flights.
Edit: I agree with the points made about likely leakage to BHX and NCL on account of their new flights to New York.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: dublin
Age: 64
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Re AA otp
Interesting to read reAA at MAN OTP etc
Their ORDDUB service is a standing joke for years in DUB I and at my desk twice a week at same time aircraft is due to land in DUB , often it hasn't even left ORD
I was told the aircraft is unreliable, old and being the last Arlantic flight to leave gets robbed of rotatable parts, seems MAN ORD has same issues,
Never would fly years of delays and cancelations in Dublin even the handling agent laughs at their Performance, but lately UA is going the same way, shame !
Their ORDDUB service is a standing joke for years in DUB I and at my desk twice a week at same time aircraft is due to land in DUB , often it hasn't even left ORD
I was told the aircraft is unreliable, old and being the last Arlantic flight to leave gets robbed of rotatable parts, seems MAN ORD has same issues,
Never would fly years of delays and cancelations in Dublin even the handling agent laughs at their Performance, but lately UA is going the same way, shame !
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Most regulars agree that the pecking order in terms of quality and reliability across the pond is Delta, United and lastly by some way, American.
I wouldn't trust them to get me anywhere on time.
I wouldn't trust them to get me anywhere on time.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: manchester
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The 2.8% growth in month is less than the 4.4% across all airports. This is now the third month of growth below the national average (I think) which must be a worry.
I agree that new long haul from other airports must be impacting. And what happened to the growth we were to see from the old Blackpool pax? I know that was small numbers but surely it should have helped.
I agree that new long haul from other airports must be impacting. And what happened to the growth we were to see from the old Blackpool pax? I know that was small numbers but surely it should have helped.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manchester
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It doesn't help that the aircraft are trash too, people do notice these things! I had some friends recently fly outbound on the A330 to PHL and back via JFK on the 767, they said they couldn't believe the 767 still had overhead TVs...!
They may be in the process of tarting up the 767 business cabins (still the risk of angle flats yet) but the economy cabins will remain dated. And nobody is getting seat back entertainment either, people expect that these days. Oh and you never know if they will switch the route to a 757 either.
I've got a couple of J TATLs on AA coming up and I am going via LHR for the better and more predictable experience. I can't be the only one who values that!
They may be in the process of tarting up the 767 business cabins (still the risk of angle flats yet) but the economy cabins will remain dated. And nobody is getting seat back entertainment either, people expect that these days. Oh and you never know if they will switch the route to a 757 either.
I've got a couple of J TATLs on AA coming up and I am going via LHR for the better and more predictable experience. I can't be the only one who values that!
You have those 3 in the correct order IMO but I'd put JetBlue way ahead of all 3 of those once you get to the States. Haven't tried Virgin America yet.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Now now boys, we can't moan about passengers fron Manchester having to route over LHR then kick off when new direct routes from NCL/BHX impact on MAN!!!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
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The fragmenting of the UK non-London to NYC market by new services from BHX and NCL cannot have helped either. Don't really understand the objectives of AA and UA in not consolidating and building their MAN services, surely this would be more profitable?
To put PHL into context it's not even filling a 752 to capacity so is cargo really good ex MAN with them as since the 762's are gone it an A332 or 752 if capacity was to be adjusted. Think it may be an interesting one to watch over the coming months.
On a brighter note, despite being down on May last year UA achieved a LF of 85% on EWR, and with an average load of 219, VS was 82% on ATL.
It doesn't help that the aircraft are trash too, people do notice these things! I had some friends recently fly outbound on the A330 to PHL and back via JFK on the 767, they said they couldn't believe the 767 still had overhead TVs...!
They may be in the process of tarting up the 767 business cabins (still the risk of angle flats yet) but the economy cabins will remain dated. And nobody is getting seat back entertainment either, people expect that these days. Oh and you never know if they will switch the route to a 757 either.
I've got a couple of J TATLs on AA coming up and I am going via LHR for the better and more predictable experience. I can't be the only one who values that!
They may be in the process of tarting up the 767 business cabins (still the risk of angle flats yet) but the economy cabins will remain dated. And nobody is getting seat back entertainment either, people expect that these days. Oh and you never know if they will switch the route to a 757 either.
I've got a couple of J TATLs on AA coming up and I am going via LHR for the better and more predictable experience. I can't be the only one who values that!
I agree about OTP with AA and while a problem for passenger it will be costing them significant sums of money also.
The fragmenting of the UK non-London to NYC market by new services from BHX and NCL cannot have helped either. Don't really understand the objectives of AA and UA in not consolidating and building their MAN services, surely this would be more profitable?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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It may play a factor however I suspect AA to JFK held up largely well.
In MAY, I reckon there was an increase in capacity on JFK by TCX, DL (from 22nd?) and AA using the larger a/c of about 13,800 seats. Bearing in mind that the majority of pax are MAN originating and that therefore the first few flights of TCX and DL from the US were probably not too busy, the number of extra passengers in May of just over 8,900 strikes me as pretty encouraging.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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You may have access to more accurate figures than me, but looking at seat maps for the next day's departure over a week or two suggests that on some days Economy is doing very well, is quieter on others but not too bad overall. However, filling the 28 J class seats appears to be an issue with sometimes 20 or more shown as available. No idea how many of those J class seats they need to sell at a good price to help produce a decent yield though.
In MAY, I reckon there was an increase in capacity on JFK by TCX, DL (from 22nd?) and AA using the larger a/c of about 13,800 seats. Bearing in mind that the majority of pax are MAN originating and that therefore the first few flights of TCX and DL from the US were probably not too busy, the number of extra passengers in May of just over 8,900 strikes me as pretty encouraging.
In MAY, I reckon there was an increase in capacity on JFK by TCX, DL (from 22nd?) and AA using the larger a/c of about 13,800 seats. Bearing in mind that the majority of pax are MAN originating and that therefore the first few flights of TCX and DL from the US were probably not too busy, the number of extra passengers in May of just over 8,900 strikes me as pretty encouraging.
American
....in addition you also have to factor in the T3 peak morning experience. A horrible place to start your longhaul transatlantic journey. The building was not designed for this purpose or the volume of pax at one time.
I'm off to Canada this week-end & I'm also routing via LHR, simply because I will be paying much less for a much superior product.
There's no doubt MAN are bleeding pax. I'm also back to using the train to Southampton. For me the door to door time is exactly the same as flying- & I know without question which is the most comfortable experience.
I'm off to Canada this week-end & I'm also routing via LHR, simply because I will be paying much less for a much superior product.
There's no doubt MAN are bleeding pax. I'm also back to using the train to Southampton. For me the door to door time is exactly the same as flying- & I know without question which is the most comfortable experience.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I think to say MAN is 'bleeding passengers' is a bit OTT given the published increases, however you make a valid point about T3.
As MANFOD is suggesting, AA 'may' be struggling to fill those J seats - I'm not surprised - AA's J Class product out of MAN is awful. Why would one choose that when there is a choice? Add in the terrible reputation for lateness - an absolute no-no on a business trip AND combine it with the T3 'experience' and you've got a pretty lousy offer.
Trouble is no-one seems to ask the passengers who make the choices. As a regular TATL pax myself, it all seems pretty obvious.
Suggest AA get themselves over to T1 or T2 pronto.
As an aside, I was informed some time ago that the MAN-PHL relied on contracts with Astra Zeneca. Since their relative demise, it seems to remove the raison d'etre for the service. I hope not of course.
As MANFOD is suggesting, AA 'may' be struggling to fill those J seats - I'm not surprised - AA's J Class product out of MAN is awful. Why would one choose that when there is a choice? Add in the terrible reputation for lateness - an absolute no-no on a business trip AND combine it with the T3 'experience' and you've got a pretty lousy offer.
Trouble is no-one seems to ask the passengers who make the choices. As a regular TATL pax myself, it all seems pretty obvious.
Suggest AA get themselves over to T1 or T2 pronto.
As an aside, I was informed some time ago that the MAN-PHL relied on contracts with Astra Zeneca. Since their relative demise, it seems to remove the raison d'etre for the service. I hope not of course.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Did AA specifically ask for T3 or were they asked to move by the airport. With the nightmare that T3 is I am a little suprised AA stand for such a mess. Have they been offered a sweetener in terms of fees?
Business Class - Isn't JFK operated by the refurbished J class on the AA 767's (have not been on an AA 767 in a long time) largely for some reasons above.
Business Class - Isn't JFK operated by the refurbished J class on the AA 767's (have not been on an AA 767 in a long time) largely for some reasons above.