SOUTHEND 5
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Coaches
Good news about the coaches, but will 2 coaches be enough? 2 early morning arrivals at SEN could probably carry about 120 or so (with a single coach having capacity of say 60 pax), but there are currently around 468 morning departure seats on the 3 EZY flights (depending on the day). Of course this is just a guess and more information is needed on the type of coaches they plan to use, what route they will use (e.g. Liverpool Street Station > Stratford Station > SEN) and the timings.
It may well be that they decide to offer 4 return journeys in the morning, although most of the pax will be in one direction as who is realistically going to be catching a bus from SEN to Liverpool Street at 5 or 6am? Affectively they will have to shuttle an empty bus back to London in the mornings to pick up the next group of pax. I can't imagine this to be very cost effective, and therefore fares will probably be set quite high to compensate for this.
Still better than nothing and shows a bit of initiative by the airport. I reiterate that this is just my opinion with a bit of common sense mixed in, so if anyone can give more accurate details about this venture then please share and/or correct me.
It may well be that they decide to offer 4 return journeys in the morning, although most of the pax will be in one direction as who is realistically going to be catching a bus from SEN to Liverpool Street at 5 or 6am? Affectively they will have to shuttle an empty bus back to London in the mornings to pick up the next group of pax. I can't imagine this to be very cost effective, and therefore fares will probably be set quite high to compensate for this.
Still better than nothing and shows a bit of initiative by the airport. I reiterate that this is just my opinion with a bit of common sense mixed in, so if anyone can give more accurate details about this venture then please share and/or correct me.
Just because they have applied for an operator's licence doesn't necessarily mean that the introduction of such a service is imminent. I should hang fire on speculating as to the frequency etc. until some information is forthcoming from Stobart.
Join Date: Oct 2014
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COACHES
When i asked the question to airport management end 2014 the plan being looked at was to run a late evening coach for the late arrivals from SEN to Liverpool Street and keep it there ready for the early morning departure to SEN connecting with the early flights
Perhaps they will start with one and increase later if it is well supported.
Fingers crossed it is approved and goes ahead for the busy summer flights
Perhaps they will start with one and increase later if it is well supported.
Fingers crossed it is approved and goes ahead for the busy summer flights
Why are Stobart proposing to operate a coach themselves ?
It's likely to be busy twice per day in one direction only with a bus largely empty for the rest of the day - not a good indication of profitability.
Surely better to invite tenders from existing major bus/coach operators who are likely to have use for vehicles other times in the day and greater resources to deal with a driver being ill or a bus breaking down...
It's likely to be busy twice per day in one direction only with a bus largely empty for the rest of the day - not a good indication of profitability.
Surely better to invite tenders from existing major bus/coach operators who are likely to have use for vehicles other times in the day and greater resources to deal with a driver being ill or a bus breaking down...
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The problem with putting it out to tender is that I can't imagine many companies would want to take it on. It has no proven track record of success/profitability, plus a few services in the morning and evening are not going to be favourable, I suspect any potential operator would want to run it throughout the day. Also if Stobart run it they can choose the timings/fares and have far more control over the operation. We'll just have to wait and see.
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coaches/trains/parking
The problem with putting it out to tender is that I can't imagine many companies would want to take it on. It has no proven track record of success/profitability, plus a few services in the morning and evening are not going to be favourable, I suspect any potential operator would want to run it throughout the day. Also if Stobart run it they can choose the timings/fares and have far more control over the operation. We'll just have to wait and see.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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asdf1234
I totally disagree with you, the question of running a coach service has been going on for eons and is very pertinent to Southend Airport. Whether, or not, it should also be discussed on a coach forum is up to those who choose to do so, but surely it would not have the same relevance to those who follow such a forum.
I totally disagree with you, the question of running a coach service has been going on for eons and is very pertinent to Southend Airport. Whether, or not, it should also be discussed on a coach forum is up to those who choose to do so, but surely it would not have the same relevance to those who follow such a forum.
Join Date: May 2014
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Trains and coaches
May I suggest.....be careful! Below is an extract from the post by the moderator closing down Southend 4.
"After spending a lot of my time reading and re-reading this thread all I see is a thread about trains! Is that how you want it? Then go find a site where you can talk about nothing else but trains.
All sense has gone from this one and caused mainly by a few people who have lost the plot.
I really do have better things to do with my time than to watch this thread go downhill because some choose head bashing rather than staying on topic and being nice.
My view now is that many of you need a holiday. Well, I am going to give you one. Two regular sensible posters have each suggested two ways to control those you don't like. Your choice is the ignore list the other is to close the thread - that is my choice."
We don't want Southend 5 meeting a similar fate, do we?
Just a thought.
"After spending a lot of my time reading and re-reading this thread all I see is a thread about trains! Is that how you want it? Then go find a site where you can talk about nothing else but trains.
All sense has gone from this one and caused mainly by a few people who have lost the plot.
I really do have better things to do with my time than to watch this thread go downhill because some choose head bashing rather than staying on topic and being nice.
My view now is that many of you need a holiday. Well, I am going to give you one. Two regular sensible posters have each suggested two ways to control those you don't like. Your choice is the ignore list the other is to close the thread - that is my choice."
We don't want Southend 5 meeting a similar fate, do we?
Just a thought.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Always a fine dividing line with what is acceptable and not acceptable by the mod regarding posts about trains and coaches. Without doubt Southend's future prosperity is heavily linked to good public transport. Without the station I doubt that easyjet would even have taken a sniff at Southend and for Southend to take that leap into future growth something needs to happen regarding early and late at night operations.
Just my observation but this thread can still be a little hostile to any post from an outsider that does not shine a 100% positive light on SEN but these posts can give a more rounded view to the state of play at Southend.
Just my observation but this thread can still be a little hostile to any post from an outsider that does not shine a 100% positive light on SEN but these posts can give a more rounded view to the state of play at Southend.
Without doubt Southend's future prosperity is heavily linked to good public transport.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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408,430 entry and exits at the station for 2013-2014. No idea how many of those passengers actually used the airport.
Estimates of station usage | Office of Rail and Road
Estimates of station usage | Office of Rail and Road
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Results
The airport has published its results for the year ending February 2015. Despite my misgivings (stated here earlier) the loss for the year ending February 2015 has improved from £979,000 in 2014 to a loss of £644,000 in 2015. Passenger numbers year on year were up as at the end of February 2015.
So, still no sign of a profit, baby steps in the right direction throughout 2014, and a tough 2015 ahead as passenger numbers fall back from the high reported over the past 12 months.
Commentary by the management has nothing specific regarding new airlines/routes.
So, still no sign of a profit, baby steps in the right direction throughout 2014, and a tough 2015 ahead as passenger numbers fall back from the high reported over the past 12 months.
Commentary by the management has nothing specific regarding new airlines/routes.
The Aviation Division underlying earnings (EBITDA) were £1.4m in 2015 compared with £0.1m in 2014 on revenues of 23.6m and 20.3m respectively. I doubt that CAX contributed much to that. "Passenger related" revenue increased by 22%.
They mention that "We are seeing interest from a number of large European operators who consider London Southend a very attractive option to serve the London market." Seeing interest is one thing but turning that into aircraft on the ground is much more difficult of course. Time will tell.
They mention that "We are seeing interest from a number of large European operators who consider London Southend a very attractive option to serve the London market." Seeing interest is one thing but turning that into aircraft on the ground is much more difficult of course. Time will tell.
Join Date: May 2002
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It's all about how you read the accounts though and how Stobart calculate them.
In the accounts the airport made a loss of £644,000 however this is after the airport has paid Stobart £739,000 in rent. So you could argue the airport actually made nearly £100,000 profit overall to Stobart.
This is the info they give on the airport.
"Aviation
Our main KPIs in this division are passenger numbers and revenue per passenger. The infrastructure and new management team are in
place to deliver our target of over 2.5 million passengers annually by 2018 and we have created capacity to handle up to 5 million
passengers per annum through the new terminal.
In the past year, we have grown passenger numbers travelling through London Southend Airport by 9% to 1.1 million and increased
revenue per passenger by 8.5% to £20.80.
We offer significant peak capacity availability and fast turnaround times at a low cost base for airlines that want a hassle-free experience
for their customers. Access to the airport is good with a regular rail connection to Liverpool Street Station taking around 50 minutes and
plenty of parking availability for passengers travelling by car. Our customers are important to us and after listening to them we improved
the new terminal catering facilities and developed safer and more efficient security arrangements. For the second year running we
received the Which? award for airport customer satisfaction.
We are seeing interest from a number of large European operators who consider London Southend Airport a very attractive option to
serve the London market. In the short term we are expecting passenger numbers to remain flat while we build these partnerships with
new operators and extend relationships with existing operators to deliver sustainable routes."
In the accounts the airport made a loss of £644,000 however this is after the airport has paid Stobart £739,000 in rent. So you could argue the airport actually made nearly £100,000 profit overall to Stobart.
This is the info they give on the airport.
"Aviation
Our main KPIs in this division are passenger numbers and revenue per passenger. The infrastructure and new management team are in
place to deliver our target of over 2.5 million passengers annually by 2018 and we have created capacity to handle up to 5 million
passengers per annum through the new terminal.
In the past year, we have grown passenger numbers travelling through London Southend Airport by 9% to 1.1 million and increased
revenue per passenger by 8.5% to £20.80.
We offer significant peak capacity availability and fast turnaround times at a low cost base for airlines that want a hassle-free experience
for their customers. Access to the airport is good with a regular rail connection to Liverpool Street Station taking around 50 minutes and
plenty of parking availability for passengers travelling by car. Our customers are important to us and after listening to them we improved
the new terminal catering facilities and developed safer and more efficient security arrangements. For the second year running we
received the Which? award for airport customer satisfaction.
We are seeing interest from a number of large European operators who consider London Southend Airport a very attractive option to
serve the London market. In the short term we are expecting passenger numbers to remain flat while we build these partnerships with
new operators and extend relationships with existing operators to deliver sustainable routes."
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EBITDA vs Profit
EBITDA is not a profit measure, it is used to compare different company results on a like for like basis. The report and accounts clearly state that the aviation division made a loss not a profit. The costs are almost all in SEN and not CAX so it is SEN that is the overall loss maker. As for the internal rent, apply that amount to the £100m+ that Stobart invested in the airport and you will see why the payback period on that investment is still in excess of 100 years.
As I stated previously, the loss in the period is less than the previous period's loss, however it is still a loss. You cannot interpret the accounts in any other way.
As I stated previously, the loss in the period is less than the previous period's loss, however it is still a loss. You cannot interpret the accounts in any other way.
Join Date: May 2002
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asdf1234 off course you can. stobart can set the rent how they like and decide where in their books they want the figures to fall. The airport paid rent to Stobart of £739,000. If they didn't have to pay this then they would have made a profit off nearly £100,000.
Now although according to the accounts the airport made a loss of £640,000 the total profit of the airport to the owners (Stobart) is about £100,000
If you compare this to last year when they accounted a loss of £979,000 and they only paid rent to Stobart of £21,000 they made a net loss to Stobart of around £950,000.
So last year the airport cost Stobart nearly £1 million pounds in losses this year it has given them a profit of around £100,000. That's a pretty good turnaround in my books.
Now although according to the accounts the airport made a loss of £640,000 the total profit of the airport to the owners (Stobart) is about £100,000
If you compare this to last year when they accounted a loss of £979,000 and they only paid rent to Stobart of £21,000 they made a net loss to Stobart of around £950,000.
So last year the airport cost Stobart nearly £1 million pounds in losses this year it has given them a profit of around £100,000. That's a pretty good turnaround in my books.
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asdf1234 off course you can. stobart can set the rent how they like and decide where in their books they want the figures to fall. The airport paid rent to Stobart of £739,000. If they didn't have to pay this then they would have made a profit off nearly £100,000.
Now although according to the accounts the airport made a loss of £640,000 the total profit of the airport to the owners (Stobart) is about £100,000
If you compare this to last year when they accounted a loss of £979,000 and they only paid rent to Stobart of £21,000 they made a net loss to Stobart of around £950,000.
So last year the airport cost Stobart nearly £1 million pounds in losses this year it has given them a profit of around £100,000. That's a pretty good turnaround in my books.
Now although according to the accounts the airport made a loss of £640,000 the total profit of the airport to the owners (Stobart) is about £100,000
If you compare this to last year when they accounted a loss of £979,000 and they only paid rent to Stobart of £21,000 they made a net loss to Stobart of around £950,000.
So last year the airport cost Stobart nearly £1 million pounds in losses this year it has given them a profit of around £100,000. That's a pretty good turnaround in my books.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Might explain why there is a reluctance to spend money and fix the taxiway as any expenditure is just adding to the losses. Also the airport is handling less passengers now than last year.
Did Stobart Air make a profit? If it did they might expand at Southend again.
Did Stobart Air make a profit? If it did they might expand at Southend again.