SOUTHEND 5
Flybe DUB 3 April
It was reported on the Air Humberside forum this morning that the four Flybe DUB rotation on Friday will be operated by Eastern Airways S2000 aircraft. This presumably explains that they have been transferred to SEN from LCY for that day for the possible reason that the rostered crews are not LCY cleared.
Just in case anyone had any lingering hopes, Air Karnten have this week publicly announced that Southend-Klagenfurt is not going to happen. Since the route went on sale (admittedly via an in-house travel agency), there have been less than 10 bookings.
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Back to the Drawing Board then !!! Looks like they are too quick to advertise these routes when realistically they are not going to happen. In the end makes them look very amateurish.
I would hardly say that the route was "on sale" in the normally accepted sense and I cannot previously recall an 'airline' stating that bookings are insufficient to commence a route before even having a reservation system in place.
Sending an email on their website simply elicited a reply in German stating the days of operation and timings plus the ticket price of 175 euros one-way. No invitation to make a booking nor any means of doing so.
Sending an email on their website simply elicited a reply in German stating the days of operation and timings plus the ticket price of 175 euros one-way. No invitation to make a booking nor any means of doing so.
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Friday : Flybe Dublin flight are using DH4 will arrived At 7.20AM 11.50am and DEpart at 7.55AM 12.25 pm and 2 more later time. Why are they planning on this ? Despite LCY is opening for Tomorrow.
Last edited by tayair6; 2nd Apr 2015 at 12:01.
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I see Stobart has applied for tax payers money to support a Carlisle - Southend route. Sorry to say that even though I am a supporter of Southend if the route can't stand up on its own two feet then that is their problem.
This route has been created to benefit two Stobart airports and a Stobart airline. A Carlisle-London route would probably be more successful if it flew into another London Airport but this application is all about benefiting three Stobart enterprises for the price of one subsidy. In my eyes this is the unacceptable face of capitalism.
This route has been created to benefit two Stobart airports and a Stobart airline. A Carlisle-London route would probably be more successful if it flew into another London Airport but this application is all about benefiting three Stobart enterprises for the price of one subsidy. In my eyes this is the unacceptable face of capitalism.
Remind me how much money Stobart have invested in SEN? if Govt money is available Stobart would be stupid not to take advantage of it, almost as stupid as having three assets and not getting them to work together. 
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It's not exactly tax payers money as I understand it its to do with not charging apd or refunding it and to be honest it's 100% wrong to charge apd on domestic flights .. Hardly fair competition when the competition is a subsidised train now is it?
And besides as much as CAX-sen may help Stobart out it's also a massive connectivity boost to Carlisle that I'm sure the local authorities would welcome ...
And besides as much as CAX-sen may help Stobart out it's also a massive connectivity boost to Carlisle that I'm sure the local authorities would welcome ...
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Costs
Add in the fact that SEN closes overnight (telling passengers to book into the hotel) and the first and last trains don't match up with the first and last flights and you might start to understand why a) business is falling away and b) Stobarts need a subsidy to fly their own aircraft between their own airports.
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That is true, but although the fees maybe quite high, when it comes to attracting new airlines and routes they can set the prices to a lower level in order to gain the business, like what they did to gain the EasyJet base for example.
asdf1234 - I knew LCY is expensive for airport charges at peak times, but is SEN really the 2nd most expensive airport in London ? I had always assumed LHR was generally more expensive than SEN
Separately I thought the reason SEN-CAX would possibly need a subsidy is that the recently upgraded rail line between London and Carlisle meant that flights would struggle to compete against trains
Separately I thought the reason SEN-CAX would possibly need a subsidy is that the recently upgraded rail line between London and Carlisle meant that flights would struggle to compete against trains
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However I think the original post was querying the fairness of paying a subsidy to an operator that also owns the two airports it intends flying between. The answer to that is that if it is in the public interest the route will gain a subsidy.
Ask yourself however why Stobart told the planning officer (and subsequent Court hearings) that a CAX - SEN route was economically viable? Didn't the local farmer point out that the route wasn't economically viable and hence planning for CAX should be refused? Stobart argues the opposite and have now applied for a subsidy... It's a strange old world!
On a commercial point it seems a bit daft for Stobarts to be applying for this subsidy because it tells the competition and customers alike that not even Stobart management have faith in their own airports and in-house carrier.
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Separately I thought the reason SEN-CAX would possibly need a subsidy is that the recently upgraded rail line between London and Carlisle meant that flights would struggle to compete against trains
Also we are not talking about London - Paris here where rail competes with air as CAX has a population of just 71,000 and is surround by sheep and not people. Give it a go Stobart if you think it can make money but I suspect they know it can't make money thus the handout they are now requesting.
Stobart have been talking about CAX-SEN for years, well before there was any talk of govt support. However, now it's available they'd be fools not to apply (and should be pulled up by shareholders if they don't).
Do you think EasyJet would go to Stobart and say "no, no - keep your discounts, we can make enough money without them" ??
Do you think EasyJet would go to Stobart and say "no, no - keep your discounts, we can make enough money without them" ??
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On a commercial point it seems a bit daft for Stobarts to be applying for this subsidy because it tells the competition and customers alike that not even Stobart management have faith in their own airports and in-house carrier.
Am I right in saying that the subsidy is just for the start-up of the route, isn't it....?
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Back in the late 1980s an airline called Euroair tried a service from Carlisle to London Heathrow with a HS748; it lasted only a short time even when the West Coast main line was not as efficient? as it is today, so unfortunately I just cannot see the service to Carlisle being a success.