Aer Lingus - 6

[Aerlingus231]

The majority of workers in Ryanair are contractors, the show is about pilots and provides good examples of the conditions there, but the principal is the same, workers in Ryanair are not treated with respect, regardless of pilots, cabin crew, ramp workers etc.

The comparison between pilots in EI and FR is easiest to make because there is the most information available on it.

[Meccano]

They will be back once the period ends, they could improve their offer towards the Irish Government, who couls use the money for a start (less austrity for the people of Ireland),

Yes indeed. But as you rightly infer, the 1.30 offer is a joke.
The correct bid is a minimum of 5.50, i can prove this with a pencil and an EtchaSketch. And then I'd expect a Hostile Takeover Premium of 1 euro on top. That's 6.50 per share thank you very much. Kaching!
Now we're talkin.....

1.30? When the pikey is bursting to buy? Don't make me laugh!

C'mon Micko, stop trying to short change the Irish people. Pull on that "Green Jersey" you love to waffle about - and bail out dear auld Ireland. We deserve it for letting you stay.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by Aerlingus231

The majority of workers in Ryanair are contractors, the show is about pilots and provides good examples of the conditions there, but the principal is the same, workers in Ryanair are not treated with respect, regardless of pilots, cabin crew, ramp workers etc.

I don't care what the show is about, I'm referring to Alt Crz Green's post.

You realise there's more to an airline than just pilots and cabin crew? There's maintenance, operations, network planning, finance, marketing etc. And these people actually work directly for Ryanair. I know people working in these areas, and I can tell you they get treated well, have good rosters, and are well paid for their work, which seems to fly in the face of Alt Crz Green's post that claims Aer Lingus is "the only irish airline offering secure employment with decent conditions"

And as someone actively seeking employment, I can tell you Ryanair has been the only Irish airline over the last year offering entry-level employment in airline operations or engineering.

[Aerlingus231]

Aer Lingus took on 20 (30?) engineering apprentices last year, so both have been actively taking on entry level employees for a while now.

I'm not saying that Ryanair don't employ people they do, and they contribute a lot to our economy, but to consider their employment secure isn't accurate. And also while pilots, cabin crew and ground staff mightn't be all of the staff, they represent a large proportion of it. The majority of their workers are contractors, which by their very nature aren't secure jobs.

[racedo]

I'm not saying that Ryanair don't employ people they do, and they contribute a lot to our economy, but to consider their employment secure isn't accurate. And also while pilots, cabin crew and ground staff mightn't be all of the staff, they represent a large proportion of it. The majority of their workers are contractors, which by their very nature aren't secure jobs.

Remind me again of how many people Aer Lingus made redundant in Ireland over last couple of years....

[racedo]

Yes indeed. But as you rightly infer, the 1.30 offer is a joke.
The correct bid is a minimum of 5.50, i can prove this with a pencil and an EtchaSketch. And then I'd expect a Hostile Takeover Premium of 1 euro on top. That's 6.50 per share thank you very much. Kaching!
Now we're talkin.....

1.30? When the pikey is bursting to buy? Don't make me laugh!

C'mon Micko, stop trying to short change the Irish people. Pull on that "Green Jersey" you love to waffle about - and bail out dear auld Ireland. We deserve it for letting you stay.

€6.50 a share..............oh dear you sound like someone who invested in EI at the public offering and hoping for a bail out.

It ain't gonna happen.

As for the comment of letting him stay................from someone claiming their location is New York v MOL based and paying taxes in Ireland now that is really funny.

[FR-]

And how many crew are on forced unpaid leave this winter, while taking on new crews.

fr-

[Aerlingus231]

Remind me again of how many people Aer Lingus made redundant in Ireland over last couple of years....

Not sure of the numbers but they let a fair few go 3 years back with the greenfield plan, and in 2002/3 they let go almost 1/3 of their workforce IIRC, but that's not the point.

The point being made was that if you were looking for a secure job in Irish aviation, Aer Lingus is the first place that comes to mind. If you're looking for a job in Irish aviation, then either Ryanair or Aer Lingus come to mind. The point being made was that in general, the types of contracts being given out to new entries in Aer Lingus are more secure type jobs than the contract type jobs that are offered to new comers in Ryanair. That's not to say that Ryanair aren't offering jobs, but that the nature of those jobs is less secure.

I'm not anti-Ryanair, they do a great job and have brought down the cost of travel for many of us, and payed a lot of taxes to this country, however I don't think they treat their employees fairly and think that they exploit them. I don't think Ryanair is a place where people go for a career, but rather use as a stepping stone to get to other jobs, and this is due to the way the employees are treated. I think if Ryanair changes their attitudes towards their employees they'd have a much lower attrition rate than they currently have, and people would show some loyalty to them. Manners cost nothing.

And how many crew are on forced unpaid leave this winter, while taking on new crews.

Excellent point, sitting on standby not being paid a dime is not employment, it's exploitation. Ryanair workers deserve a basic salary, not just this pay by the hour crap that they have to work with.

[racedo]

Not sure of the numbers but they let a fair few go 3 years back with the greenfield plan, and in 2002/3 they let go almost 1/3 of their workforce IIRC, but that's not the point.

1/3 in 2002/3 and was it 1100 in last couple of years.......

How is it secure employment when dumping that number of people ? when they can't even get their employee tax advice wrong.

Don't know many employers who would forget out €30 million for another benefit to people who have already left.

[FR-]

Speaking as cabin crew only on an fr contract, we get a basic wage plus flight hours. But what really gets me is many of my friends still in fr are sat at home on unpaid leave, while fr is trainning new crews and get them online after the course. But thats what you get we you dont have a union.

Last year when the news first came about forced unpaid leave we had 'managers' come over from Dublin, it got a little heated and we hinted that we would go on a go slow, work to rule, ie extra care on secuirty checks while on a turn around, and all join unite, we was told 'any collective action, and we will close the base'. He was just a gob shte like most in the white house. Crews are treated like crap, i've seen crews shouted at, demoted for poor sales, forced to break airport rules.

fr-


Ive also seen crew collecting money from EMT when we had the tax free checked a few years back.

[Aerlingus231]

That 1100 is a misrepresentation, that was the leave and return scheme, 750 of those people were re-hired but on lower terms and conditions as part of the Greenfield plan. So the actual redundancies were closer to 350.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by Aerlingus231

That 1100 is a misrepresentation, that was the leave and return scheme, 750 of those people were re-hired but on lower terms and conditions as part of the Greenfield plan. So the actual redundancies were closer to 350.

So in an debate about Aer Lingus having better working conditions than Ryanair, you're defending Aer Lingus for making 750 staff redundant and rehiring them on lower pay & conditions just because they didn't sack them altogether?

Oh the irony...

And if you want to talk about job security, you don't see Ryanair staff threatening industrial action every 6 months and forcing passengers to cancel their bookings at a massive inconvenience. What does this do for the security of jobs?

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by Alt Crz Green

Professional PILOTS Rumour Network... There's a clue. Although I do equally refer to cabin crew.

Forum title - Airlines, Airports & Routes

There's another clue.

[FR-]

Come off it, most the people on here aint pilots.

[CabinCrewe]

...infact amongst the spotters id suggest there were hardly any...

[Aerlingus231]

So in an debate about Aer Lingus having better working conditions than Ryanair, you're defending Aer Lingus for making 750 staff redundant and rehiring them on lower pay & conditions just because they didn't sack them altogether?

Because the terms and conditions they were re-hired on were still far better than those of Ryanair. Ask many of Ryanairs workers and you'll find few who think they are treated well and intend staying there for a career, ask many of EI's and I think you'll find a much greater portion who think they are treated with respect, decency and have a long term future there.

[Hangar6]

Airline workers DUBLIN AIRPORT

I spoketo 18 staff in FR uniform today , NONE were emplued by Ryanair

I spoke to a mere 22 taff in EI uniform today , guess what


22 were employed by EI . direclty

now I didnt get into contracts but I am in tomorrow so if anyone else out there with nearly nil insight into FR and their hiring staffing practices across Europe in the last ten years needs any specific details let me know

always happy to add specific facts to the rumour network

also
apologies re swiss chalets I meant spain bulgaria london docklands, names available .....

[Meccano]

€6.50 a share..............oh dear you sound like someone who invested in EI at the public offering and hoping for a bail out.

Yes I'm a shareholder. Just like Micko. Only I didn't pay 2.90 per share like him!
He's over a barrel, and about to be forced into a mandatory divestment. He's battling now to save his skin. That's my price. Take it or leave it.

It ain't gonna happen.

Fine by me. Its a HOSTILE TAKEOVER BID. Who asked for it?
Let him take a hike, stop wasting mine and the countries time!

As for the comment of letting him stay................from someone claiming their location is New York v MOL based and paying taxes in Ireland now that is really funny.

That old chestnut.
That's a matter of debate.
Does his company pay ALL it's rightful taxes?
Some say not. Some say his pilots do not. And it saves him a heap.
Give with one hand, take with the other. I'm not as easily impressed as you.

[Aerlingus231]

Aer Lingus Traffic stats for December

Passenger Numbers for December

SH: +3.4% (+0.7% for the year)
LH: +13.4% (+9.4% for the year)
Regional: +33.3% (+33.9% for the year)

Total excl Regional: +4.5% (+1.5% for the year)
Total incl Regional: +7.2% (+3.8% for the year)

Load Factors for December:
SH: 66.6% (+0.7%) , Year to date: 75.4% (+0.8%)
LH: 77.7% (+6.1%), Year to date: 82.5% (+4.9%)
No Load factor stats for Regional

Good year all around it looks like.

Ref:
http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media...s_RNSFinal.pdf
Aer Lingus traffic figures fly 7% higher - RTÉ News

[MCDU2]

Dublin aviator - good luck in your search for employment. With your attitude on the industry you will be a perfect fit for FR. Then after 5 years and no pay back on your investment you can contemplate a shift to the middle east. Dont be surprised though if the t&cs across the globe have all gone to pot. Perhaps one day you might actually get home and secure employment rather than living out of a bag if your lucky.