Aer Lingus - 6
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MCDU2
Dublin aviator - good luck in your search for employment. With your attitude on the industry you will be a perfect fit for FR. Then after 5 years and no pay back on your investment you can contemplate a shift to the middle east. Dont be surprised though if the t&cs across the globe have all gone to pot. Perhaps one day you might actually get home and secure employment rather than living out of a bag if your lucky.
Yes I'm a shareholder. Just like Micko. Only I didn't pay 2.90 per share like him!
He's over a barrel, and about to be forced into a mandatory divestment. He's battling now to save his skin. That's my price. Take it or leave it.
He's over a barrel, and about to be forced into a mandatory divestment. He's battling now to save his skin. That's my price. Take it or leave it.
You really live in a different world.
Ryanair forced to divest can sell to anybody and that includes MO'L. Finding financial backers won't be a problem.
Fine by me. Its a HOSTILE TAKEOVER BID. Who asked for it?
Let him take a hike, stop wasting mine and the countries time!
Let him take a hike, stop wasting mine and the countries time!
Dunno but don't see Ryanair having much to do with New York ...........yet
That old chestnut.
That's a matter of debate.
Does his company pay ALL it's rightful taxes?
Some say not. Some say his pilots do not. And it saves him a heap.
Give with one hand, take with the other. I'm not as easily impressed as you.
That's a matter of debate.
Does his company pay ALL it's rightful taxes?
Some say not. Some say his pilots do not. And it saves him a heap.
Give with one hand, take with the other. I'm not as easily impressed as you.
As for claiming it doesn't pay its taxes then do hope you provide some facts on it, you know the kind that stand up to scrutiny and not just made up hearsay.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alt don't patronise me, I'm perfectly calm and I'm entitled to post my opinions as much as you are. If you want to come on here and mislead people by making sweeping claims without any facts to back them up that's your business. But this forum isn't to talk about pilots, it's to discuss every aspect of an airline and airport's operations. So when you make wild claims like the one above, you're talking about all staff not just pilots.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Age: 33
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What you're suggesting is impossible under Irish company law.
You are not getting EI's slots for BA, no matter what you so desperately and singularly desire.
You are not getting EI's slots for BA, no matter what you so desperately and singularly desire.
Also BA really need the slots to compete with its rivals in Europe, the Middle East and North America and sadly unless LHR is expanded, they will have to look buy some from other operators, however since the BMI takeover there are not many left that hold a large number, only VS, LH and EI, not a good prospect then…
For the record, I am firmly against the FR takeover bids for EI, I would much prefer BA buying a big enough stake in EI to end this whole saga and then buy their LHR slots (the money used could be used to buy back the FR shareholding)
BA days serving the "island" of Ireland are numbered and some may say very numbered. EI are hammering BA at both DUB and BHD and BA will not be in Ireland for very long more. Fact 12 months from now departure boards to LHR may be very different. Another fact is that BA have too many slots at LHR now and this can be seen by the slot sitting on a number or routes.
BALHR
What are you on BA will not get EI slots and I fail to see how it would be a benefit to both carriers if EI sold to BA which won't happen unless the airline was in deep financial trouble which its not and is profitable with lots of cash in the bank.
BALHR
What are you on BA will not get EI slots and I fail to see how it would be a benefit to both carriers if EI sold to BA which won't happen unless the airline was in deep financial trouble which its not and is profitable with lots of cash in the bank.
Also do you have any evidence/figures in relation to both BA and EI loads/profits on LHR-DUB/BHD/SNN/ORK?
However “BA” does not have “too many slots” in fact they barely have enough to compete with its rivals…
As for the potential benefits of EI selling their LHR slots:
1: They can buy back FR’s shareholding in the airlines, thus ending this idiotic saga
2: BA can better compete with its rivals in Europe, the Middle East and North America
3: BA will face “pressure” to maintain LHR-DUB/BHD for longer-term
4: BA/EI will have a closer partnership with each other, meaning EI can still get some benefit out of LHR-DUB/BHD
5: Yield will improve in relation to LHR-DUB/BHD
In other words, very good for both airlines…
AF Cityjet cutting a bit
and NO CHANCE FR will have any say in EI , in any form so dream on and IAG with EI slots......BA have no need of any more slots they are squatting all over the place and its actually causing their operation to suffer, especially on LHRDUB
and NO CHANCE FR will have any say in EI , in any form so dream on and IAG with EI slots......BA have no need of any more slots they are squatting all over the place and its actually causing their operation to suffer, especially on LHRDUB
Anyway, they have very little out of DUB; nearly all their ops are in LCY
Like I said again BA badly need additional slots even after buying BMI, they hold a smaller proportion of slots at LHR/LGW when compared to its rivals in Europe, who holds bigger shares at airports that can handle more flights (AF-KL at CDG/AMS and LH in FRA/MUC/ZRN and they have even more than that…)
With VS in bed (for now…) with DL, EI is one of the few big holds of slots at LHR still standing…
It would also improve yields on LHR-DUB/BHD, which would benefit both airlines (EI will still codeshare on BA’s LHR-DUB/BHD flights)
BALHR maybe from a culture point of view very little in common, I assume that is what you mean? EI and FR networks overlap massively. FR is on a large proportion of EI routes all across Ireland to UK and Europe and where is no competiton between airport pairs, FR has an alternative serivce that competes with EI for passengers e.g. CRL/BRU, BVA/CDG, BGY/LIN-MXP, CIO/FCO, LHR/LGW- STN- LTN etc..... list goes on.
EI have a great market segment ex ROI for themselves, are competitive on price and are winning most markets, UK destinations are a prime example EI and EIR collective has seen FR back off in many areas and watch this space. BRS FR retreating to x2 daily, ABZ FR withdrawl, EI are stepping up BHX to offer maximum connectivity via DUB and in the process offer the customer highest convenience and frequency.
FR are not happy with their returns on Ireland UK routes and in many cases the 738 is simply not cost effective to make they work, afterall FR is reliant on point to point. EI Is not solely reliant on this.
FR want to purchase Aer Lingus for the following reasons and lets be very clear about it:
1. Gain Control of Irish Aviation and give 2 fingers to Dublin Airport authority, this must be MOLs greatest wish,
2. Bring EI and FR together so that he can disable a very formiddable competitor, EI have developed a good approach to making the business work and it is a great example of a small company being very capable to competing and winning the battle against a dominant giant company. Routes like Stockholm and Verona have worked splendidly for EI and FR have already withdrawn Stockholm, thanks to EIs ability to feed into T/A they can develop routes without fear of FR.
3. Gain a foothold onto T/A business using a carrier who has made a profitable business across the Atlantic, not many have.
Make no mistake MOL may say that he would run EI as the current brand that it is, but he will overturn everything for competitive advantage including any promises that he may make in the process of purchasing the company, and any legal issues that arise of court cases as a result, he will see the cost as an investment into highlighting FRs low fares blah blah blah. He will never accept the Unions and that will be the achilles heel for the EI brand if the union attempted to challenge him should he gain control. he simply would close it down and bring FR in, cut back, have the market sewn up, and then lever higher prices and dictate to Dublin Airport what goes on...
EI-BUD
EI have a great market segment ex ROI for themselves, are competitive on price and are winning most markets, UK destinations are a prime example EI and EIR collective has seen FR back off in many areas and watch this space. BRS FR retreating to x2 daily, ABZ FR withdrawl, EI are stepping up BHX to offer maximum connectivity via DUB and in the process offer the customer highest convenience and frequency.
FR are not happy with their returns on Ireland UK routes and in many cases the 738 is simply not cost effective to make they work, afterall FR is reliant on point to point. EI Is not solely reliant on this.
FR want to purchase Aer Lingus for the following reasons and lets be very clear about it:
1. Gain Control of Irish Aviation and give 2 fingers to Dublin Airport authority, this must be MOLs greatest wish,
2. Bring EI and FR together so that he can disable a very formiddable competitor, EI have developed a good approach to making the business work and it is a great example of a small company being very capable to competing and winning the battle against a dominant giant company. Routes like Stockholm and Verona have worked splendidly for EI and FR have already withdrawn Stockholm, thanks to EIs ability to feed into T/A they can develop routes without fear of FR.
3. Gain a foothold onto T/A business using a carrier who has made a profitable business across the Atlantic, not many have.
Make no mistake MOL may say that he would run EI as the current brand that it is, but he will overturn everything for competitive advantage including any promises that he may make in the process of purchasing the company, and any legal issues that arise of court cases as a result, he will see the cost as an investment into highlighting FRs low fares blah blah blah. He will never accept the Unions and that will be the achilles heel for the EI brand if the union attempted to challenge him should he gain control. he simply would close it down and bring FR in, cut back, have the market sewn up, and then lever higher prices and dictate to Dublin Airport what goes on...
EI-BUD
All the point you make are also very good ones, I can see why the Irish Government + EI Employees are massively against the deal and I agree with them
So I suggest the 3-point plan to make sure EI remains free from FR control:
1: Sell their LHR slots to BA, which would give EI vast amounts of cash
2: Use that cash to buy back FR’s stake in the airline
3: EI could then re-sell that sake to BA in return (guaranteeing that FR will never gain a majority stake in FR), both airlines form a close partnership with each other (more codeshare partnerships and maybe even some ATI)
Do you think it is a good idea?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1: Sell their LHR slots to BA, which would give EI vast amounts of cash
2: Use that cash to buy back FR’s stake in the airline
3: EI could then re-sell that sake to BA in return (guaranteeing that FR will never gain a majority stake in FR), both airlines form a close partnership with each other (more codeshare partnerships and maybe even some ATI)
Do you think it is a good idea?
2: Use that cash to buy back FR’s stake in the airline
3: EI could then re-sell that sake to BA in return (guaranteeing that FR will never gain a majority stake in FR), both airlines form a close partnership with each other (more codeshare partnerships and maybe even some ATI)
Do you think it is a good idea?
All pie in the sky, excuse the pun, why on earth would EI sell its prized asset that is the cornerstone of its short haul operation, have any idea how obsurd it is to suggest that EI are being stubborn holding on the LHR slots?
EI need to remain differentiated to FR so why would they surrender their access to LHR? Crazy.
Secondly,
EI May not be able to buy back the stake, price may become too great, if it became available.
Finally
BA ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BUYING ANY PART OF EI.
So there are just a few barriers to implementing your plan.
EI-BUD
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also BA really need the slots to compete with its rivals in Europe, the Middle East and North America and sadly unless LHR is expanded, they will have to look buy some from other operators, however since the BMI takeover there are not many left that hold a large number, only VS, LH and EI, not a good prospect then…
AER LINGUS DON'T CARE HOW BA DOES, IF BA CAN'T COPE TOUGH LUCK TO THEM, BUT AER LINGUS DON'T CARE!!!!
Aer Lingus is not some sub section of BA that BA wants to get some of it's assets off, it is a competitor to BA, and a company that really couldn't concern itself less with the fact that BA can't compete with others, tough luck BA. What Aer Lingus does care about is making money, which is what it does with it's LHR flights which are the cornerstone as EI-BUD says of EI's short haul network. If they didn't make money on the flights then sure they might consider selling some of the slots, but they do make money on them, always have, so they're never ever ever ever going to sell one of their most profitable assets just to be nice to this other airline that is struggling because it's being bullied by those big mean other airlines...
Has this sunk in?
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 9th Jan 2013 at 12:46.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA will never buy some, all or none of EI, or any slots at LHR. BA no longer has that level of strategic decision making power. BA is not an independent airline in its own right, it is part of a multinational holding company. Strategic decisions such as acquisition of airlines, aircraft or large numbers of slots are made in Madrid, not London.
LHR is no longer, necessarily, the be all and end all of operations these days. MAD is a large hub with equally modern facilities and room to grow. IAG could, if it wished, siphon much more connecting traffic through MAD and fill more LHR flights with O&D. Indeed this makes a lot more sense than trying to develop an LGW hub that some keep suggesting.
Selling the premier route in the short haul network makes absolutely zero sense from EI's point of view. Even when times were really bad, LHR was always the last route to be cut. I could almost guarentee that the last EI flight ever returning to DUB would be from LHR, the only way these slots would be sold is in liquidation. The LHR operation is at the very core of EI.
LHR is no longer, necessarily, the be all and end all of operations these days. MAD is a large hub with equally modern facilities and room to grow. IAG could, if it wished, siphon much more connecting traffic through MAD and fill more LHR flights with O&D. Indeed this makes a lot more sense than trying to develop an LGW hub that some keep suggesting.
Selling the premier route in the short haul network makes absolutely zero sense from EI's point of view. Even when times were really bad, LHR was always the last route to be cut. I could almost guarentee that the last EI flight ever returning to DUB would be from LHR, the only way these slots would be sold is in liquidation. The LHR operation is at the very core of EI.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: dublin
Age: 64
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LHR Slots
It is fair to say LHR is full and any new entrant must obtain slots from a current carrier
BA has no slot shortage, recent new routes domestic , shorthaul, mid haul and longhaul PLUS currently lease slots toother airlines
BA do need to wait for their new aircraft to switch some of their less profitable slots eg DUB to other routes, probably Longhaul .
No commercial sense in buying more slots in current climate when they already have a surplus
BA has no slot shortage, recent new routes domestic , shorthaul, mid haul and longhaul PLUS currently lease slots toother airlines
BA do need to wait for their new aircraft to switch some of their less profitable slots eg DUB to other routes, probably Longhaul .
No commercial sense in buying more slots in current climate when they already have a surplus
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Battling to save his skin.............
You really live in a different world.
You really live in a different world.
Ryanair forced to divest can sell to anybody and that includes MO'L. Finding financial backers won't be a problem.
Finally Mr.O'Leary gets to take PERSONAL responsibility for the cost of his mistake! Instead of his poor shareholders, let him shoulder the losses himself!
At 1.10'ísh per share the current capitalised value of EI is about 620M, so the 29% FR holding will cost him around 180M. Where will he get 180M?
well his net worth is around 275M according to Irelands 'Rich List' - so he can afford to pay for it himself, with change left over!
Or, as you suggest, he could look for Finance.
What would be the repayments per month on 180M?
I calculate it to be 3.15M at 1.75%.
That wipes him out in 7 years. Not a very smart move. Not very Michael O'Leary'ísh.
Of course he might look for a 'White Knight' to tap.
But is anyone outside FR seriously interested in taking a punt of that nature? I doubt it. And if it was someone INSIDE FR - I can see all sorts of legal difficulties arising, especially with the UK CA. The Irish Stock Market rules might throw a spanner in it too. Conflict of interest? Acting in Concert? Choose your poison....
In fairness there's also the argument that, if he's going to make amends properly, he should repay the full cost of his misadventure. He bought at around 2.90 per share, so the bill should really come to 475M or thereabouts.
Really good idea though. I hope he pulls it off, and loses his fortune in the process.
Which country is that ? The one you live in ?
Dunno but don't see Ryanair having much to do with New York ...........yet
And who is the Chairman of The Board?
Your knowledge is a bit deficient for one so fervent in his admiration.
As for claiming it doesn't pay its taxes then do hope you provide some facts on it, you know the kind that stand up to scrutiny and not just made up hearsay.
That Italian judge should be fired too, don't you agree?
Last edited by Meccano; 9th Jan 2013 at 14:30.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: dublin
Age: 64
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2013 EI wishlist
Moving on
Wouldnt it be great for EI if
for once just once a whole 12 months went by without a threat of any type of industrial avtion, I am sure the multiple threats in 2012 cost many lost bookings ...
Wouldnt it be great if further millions were not wasted on defending FR bids, must be 10mill for 2012, straight off the bottom line...
The Gathering will generate tens thousands extra seats for EI
So will the EU Presidency
VS deal will go straight into the bottom line as profit
LHR temrinal move....fingers crossed
JFK Terminal move is a real plus JETBLUE Terminal is very user friendly
WIFI for all planes, but u just know it will have bugs..like my iphone but still its positive
EIR new planes and increased fleet
possibilities of using that cah pile for planes, even a cheap airline ,,,
oh to have a good clean year for passengers staff and us folks....
could it happen ?
Wouldnt it be great for EI if
for once just once a whole 12 months went by without a threat of any type of industrial avtion, I am sure the multiple threats in 2012 cost many lost bookings ...
Wouldnt it be great if further millions were not wasted on defending FR bids, must be 10mill for 2012, straight off the bottom line...
The Gathering will generate tens thousands extra seats for EI
So will the EU Presidency
VS deal will go straight into the bottom line as profit
LHR temrinal move....fingers crossed
JFK Terminal move is a real plus JETBLUE Terminal is very user friendly
WIFI for all planes, but u just know it will have bugs..like my iphone but still its positive
EIR new planes and increased fleet
possibilities of using that cah pile for planes, even a cheap airline ,,,
oh to have a good clean year for passengers staff and us folks....
could it happen ?
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: dublin
Age: 64
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lounges
In short yes
Now I have not seen the current lounges LH , VS and Hawaian use in T5 but EI will have lounge for Premier , mind you VS will move over DL no doubt.
But yes is the answer
Now I have not seen the current lounges LH , VS and Hawaian use in T5 but EI will have lounge for Premier , mind you VS will move over DL no doubt.
But yes is the answer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Age: 33
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All pie in the sky, excuse the pun, why on earth would EI sell its prized asset that is the cornerstone of its short haul operation, have any idea how obsurd it is to suggest that EI are being stubborn holding on the LHR slots?
I am not judgeing if EI are stubborn, I am saying that "if they where" remember BA and EI have not even talked to each other about it (and not are not going to for the time being)
EI need to remain differentiated to FR so why would they surrender their access to LHR? Crazy.
EI May not be able to buy back the stake, price may become too great, if it became available.
BA ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BUYING ANY PART OF EI.
Listen, you really really don't seem to be getting this here. The fact that BA need slots is none of Aer Lingus' concern. In case this isn't sinking in;
AER LINGUS DON'T CARE HOW BA DOES, IF BA CAN'T COPE TOUGH LUCK TO THEM, BUT AER LINGUS DON'T CARE!!!!
AER LINGUS DON'T CARE HOW BA DOES, IF BA CAN'T COPE TOUGH LUCK TO THEM, BUT AER LINGUS DON'T CARE!!!!
Aer Lingus is not some sub section of BA that BA wants to get some of it's assets off, it is a competitor to BA, and a company that really couldn't concern itself less with the fact that BA can't compete with others, tough luck BA. What Aer Lingus does care about is making money, which is what it does with it's LHR flights which are the cornerstone as EI-BUD says of EI's short haul network. If they didn't make money on the flights then sure they might consider selling some of the slots, but they do make money on them, always have, so they're never ever ever ever going to sell one of their most profitable assets just to be nice to this other airline that is struggling because it's being bullied by those big mean other airlines...
True they don't care about BA's problems, but with FR its a diffrent story, so BA can help fix their problems and EI can fix BA's problems in return
Also EI will still be making money out of LHR-DUB/BHD by codesharing on BA's flights, although this time they might be more profitable (with higher yields)...
Besides its not the first time an airline has sold a very profitable part of their business
After all why should EI reject a offer it cannot refuse from BA... (they will make a lot of money out of the sale of LHR slots)
BA will never buy some, all or none of EI, or any slots at LHR. BA no longer has that level of strategic decision making power. BA is not an independent airline in its own right, it is part of a multinational holding company. Strategic decisions such as acquisition of airlines, aircraft or large numbers of slots are made in Madrid, not London.
LHR is no longer, necessarily, the be all and end all of operations these days. MAD is a large hub with equally modern facilities and room to grow. IAG could, if it wished, siphon much more connecting traffic through MAD and fill more LHR flights with O&D. Indeed this makes a lot more sense than trying to develop an LGW hub that some keep suggesting.
Also IB's short-haul network is being reduced on a large scale (thus reduced connections to the rest of Europe...) and the IB/MAD is located in a country is suffering from a massive ecnomic crisis, large debts, high umemployment and the rise of the far-left/right and nationalists, then there is the fact its in the Euro (which is also having a lot of problems as well...)
Far better to expand at LHR as much as legally posibble and then do the same at LGW//LCY...
Selling the premier route in the short haul network makes absolutely zero sense from EI's point of view. Even when times were really bad, LHR was always the last route to be cut. I could almost guarentee that the last EI flight ever returning to DUB would be from LHR, the only way these slots would be sold is in liquidation. The LHR operation is at the very core of EI.
Of course its up to them in the first place...
PS: Its not the first time an airline has sold/shut down its "premier/flagship/profitable routes"
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But they do care about the fact they don't want to be bought out by FR and I am suggesting IAG can help with that, in return of selling their :HR slots to them and a closer partnership...)
After all why should EI reject a offer it cannot refuse from BA... (they will make a lot of money out of the sale of LHR slots)
EI is here for the long term, it doesn't care about making a quick buck from selling it's LHR slots, it has a lot of liquidity at the moment, they're not strapped for cash and have no need for the extra cash on hand, and even if they were, I'd say EI would sooner sell their entire fleet before they sold their LHR Slots.
Also EI will still be making money out of LHR-DUB/BHD by codesharing on BA's flights, although this time they might be more profitable (with higher yields)...
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 9th Jan 2013 at 16:25.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JFK Terminal move is a real plus JETBLUE Terminal is very user friendly
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EI T5 JFK
Aer Lingus have begun tests at JFK T5, parked EI-ELA at one of the gates yesterday and rumoured start date is March 17th for a St Patrick's Day celebration.
Instagram photo by @annie_migs (Annie Migs) | Statigram
Instagram photos for tag #aerlingus | Statigram
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They can still get access to LHR, the only difference is that they will be code sharing on BA's flights rather than running the flight themselves, which would be more profitable due to less competition...