Ryanair - 7
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that MOL is now focusing on making money for their shareholders opposed for growth, but I ask a question on behalf of hundreds of thousands of bargain hunters:
Will Ryanair ever offer their 'free' flights ever again?
Will Ryanair ever offer their 'free' flights ever again?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got back from my flight with Ryanair STN-LPA-STN I was very happy with both flights. We arrived on-time after a very good flight the out-bound flight was full the crew very friendly and the drinks trolly was up and down the isle more times than i have seen on any charter flight, The return flight was also on-time which was very nice to see on the departure boards next to TOM LGW,MAN flights showing delayed, again the flight was full, it was interesting to see how many Americans and Canadians were on the flights. I was talking to many people on the flight who thought is was amazing the price they payed for the flights ranging from £65 rtn up to £120 rtn, now I like Gran canaria and go about 3-4 times a year and the price i am use to paying is about £200-£250 rtn so Ryanair is the way I will be going from now on and just to add the A/C both our and rtn passengers were able to use mobile phones i did not here anyone making a call so all the fuss that was made months ago on here about people not using Ryanair because of the introduction of mobile use on board was not worth the time that was taken in shouting so loudly about it.
We done Ryanair for this route, winter sun all the way 26c was a very nice escape from the UK with ice, slush, sleet and snow however it was a shock landing at STN -4.
We done Ryanair for this route, winter sun all the way 26c was a very nice escape from the UK with ice, slush, sleet and snow however it was a shock landing at STN -4.
We are returning to Ltn from Tfs on 1/5 with Ryanair, having deserted ZB for a pre midnight arrival and an inexpensive flight (almost half ZB price on like for like basis)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shed-on-a-Pole,
While I can see some merits in your arguments from a general point of view, I can't say the same about the details. For example, you say that to generalise about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous, yet you are happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport, many will not!
Beyond nitpicking, with regards to your specific gripe of their reductions at Manchester, I actually think you might have fallen into the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate. The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your 'knee-jerk reaction' belief. I'm confident that if any of the other routes were performing in line with the DUB-MAN one, you'd still be able to book a ticket for it today. Announcing the switching of the routes to other low cost airports was largely Ryanair spin in relation to marginal routes - try booking a Ryanair flight from Liverpool, East Midlands or Leeds to Charleroi, Cagliari, Hahn, Marseille or Weeze right now and see how far you get!
Your 'corporate politics, not economics' comment is interesting. What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager.
You say that there’s a finite amount of airports in Europe but there’s also a finite amount of Ryanair aircraft – comments such as ‘regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business’ would be 100% valid if Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes but given that they don’t, why shouldn’t they focus on the locations that currently give them the best returns (something generally not viewed as being detrimental to the interests of shareholders)? Don’t forget as things stand, the Ryanair as we know it has limited expansion opportunities available anyway given that they are fast approaching their planned total of 299 aircraft with no orders beyond 2013.
While I can see some merits in your arguments from a general point of view, I can't say the same about the details. For example, you say that to generalise about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous, yet you are happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport, many will not!
Beyond nitpicking, with regards to your specific gripe of their reductions at Manchester, I actually think you might have fallen into the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate. The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your 'knee-jerk reaction' belief. I'm confident that if any of the other routes were performing in line with the DUB-MAN one, you'd still be able to book a ticket for it today. Announcing the switching of the routes to other low cost airports was largely Ryanair spin in relation to marginal routes - try booking a Ryanair flight from Liverpool, East Midlands or Leeds to Charleroi, Cagliari, Hahn, Marseille or Weeze right now and see how far you get!
Your 'corporate politics, not economics' comment is interesting. What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager.
You say that there’s a finite amount of airports in Europe but there’s also a finite amount of Ryanair aircraft – comments such as ‘regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business’ would be 100% valid if Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes but given that they don’t, why shouldn’t they focus on the locations that currently give them the best returns (something generally not viewed as being detrimental to the interests of shareholders)? Don’t forget as things stand, the Ryanair as we know it has limited expansion opportunities available anyway given that they are fast approaching their planned total of 299 aircraft with no orders beyond 2013.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no loyalty to Ryanair - I just prefer facts
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi BASED,
Thankyou for your comments and observations. Let me reply to some of your points:
In your first paragraph, you write that I am "happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport". I must point out that this wording is your own, not mine. I said no such thing. If you re-read my posting No.921 the very clear message is that the market is made up of many individuals who each make the decision which best suits their own circumstances. I did say that "many will not [follow Ryanair to another airport]", but in this case 'many' is used to indicate a significant number of customers (I did not anticipate your forensic analysis of my wording). I never suggested that "few" would [follow Ryanair elsewhere]. Think of it as "some will, some won't" if you want the point rephrased. Since the whole essence of the posting was about the individuality of travel decisions, I am surprised that you accuse me of generalisation in this instance. I have to agree that you were nitpicking in trying to make a point out of this!
"You have fallen in to the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate." Well, in that case I must have "fallen into the trap" of believing my very reliable cousins who were caught out with the boarding card issue on a recent DUB-MAN sector for a family funeral. I have also "fallen into the trap" of believing close friends who have told me exactly why they never intend to book with Ryanair again. However, I do reconfirm that I myself would use Ryanair again should they offer me a service which matches my travel requirements. I have also made it quite clear in my previous postings that I do not have a 'downer' on Ryanair as a whole, but I do point out opportunities for the company to improve itself. A successful company will always strive to improve itself and I wish to see Ryanair optimize its success. The door should always be left open for constructive criticism from customers and shareholders of any company which values its future.
"The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your kneejerk reaction belief." Erm ... may I refer you to the second paragraph, first line of my posting No.900? I think you will find that I myself raised the point regarding the profitability of that route ... I believe my description was "ultra profitable". So if you have doubts, let me be quite clear about this. My understanding is that DUB-MAN is an especially profitable route for Ryanair. I seem to recall it being listed as one of the top performers in a Ryanair annual report. I'm not surprised in the least that they didn't drop it (and I thought readers would appreciate my view on this from the comments in posting No.900). I don't for a moment suggest that the other nine MAN routes came close to the performance of this one - but then again, that is true of most other routes across the entire Ryanair network. However, I do stand by my contention that the hasty decision to axe those nine routes was indeed a kneejerk reaction. Furthermore, I did not suggest that these routes had already reached profitability/maturity/success (as they had been operating for a relatively short period of time). I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that any new route has to be built up ... few are instantly profitable straight from inception.
"What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager." So let me get this right. You believe that "very little" global business is based on economics??? We will have to disagree on that one, I'm afraid! I acknowledge that corporate politics play a role, but I think you will find that economics is pretty crucial in most business plans.
"If Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes ..." Come off it, now. Nowhere have I remotely suggested that the Ryanair fleet is infinite! In fact, I don't believe that I mentioned Ryanair's fleet size at all. As for the company fleet approaching its intended compliment of 299 units, I think all regular readers on here are aware of the reason for no further aircraft orders at present. In short, the manufacturers and Ryanair could not agree mutually acceptable terms. But your claim that Ryanair's finite fleet size invalidates the points I made in my earlier postings is something else upon which we must disagree. Are you seriously suggesting that Ryanair's sudden decision to axe nine MAN routes immediately after a public spat with M.A.G. was actually made because they would only have 299 aircraft to play with? You are right that I believe that decision to have been a kneejerk one, and I absolutely stand by my claim that shareholders are not well served by petulant actions such as this.
With regard to your suggestion that Ryanair should concentrate on locations which give them the best returns ... agreed. Where did I suggest otherwise? I remind you that the nine MAN routes were axed suddenly and simultaneously to make a point. Do you seriously ask readers here to believe that all nine were deemed to be financial lost causes at exactly the same moment, just after Ryanair had its bust-up with M.A.G.? Nice coincidence. If so, we will just have to agree to disagree again and allow other readers to draw their own conclusions.
Thankyou again for your comments and feedback.
SHED.
Thankyou for your comments and observations. Let me reply to some of your points:
In your first paragraph, you write that I am "happy to claim that only a few will follow Ryanair to another airport". I must point out that this wording is your own, not mine. I said no such thing. If you re-read my posting No.921 the very clear message is that the market is made up of many individuals who each make the decision which best suits their own circumstances. I did say that "many will not [follow Ryanair to another airport]", but in this case 'many' is used to indicate a significant number of customers (I did not anticipate your forensic analysis of my wording). I never suggested that "few" would [follow Ryanair elsewhere]. Think of it as "some will, some won't" if you want the point rephrased. Since the whole essence of the posting was about the individuality of travel decisions, I am surprised that you accuse me of generalisation in this instance. I have to agree that you were nitpicking in trying to make a point out of this!
"You have fallen in to the trap of believing some of the Ryanair 'public slagging' you love to hate." Well, in that case I must have "fallen into the trap" of believing my very reliable cousins who were caught out with the boarding card issue on a recent DUB-MAN sector for a family funeral. I have also "fallen into the trap" of believing close friends who have told me exactly why they never intend to book with Ryanair again. However, I do reconfirm that I myself would use Ryanair again should they offer me a service which matches my travel requirements. I have also made it quite clear in my previous postings that I do not have a 'downer' on Ryanair as a whole, but I do point out opportunities for the company to improve itself. A successful company will always strive to improve itself and I wish to see Ryanair optimize its success. The door should always be left open for constructive criticism from customers and shareholders of any company which values its future.
"The continuation of the DUB-MAN route is all that needs to be said in response to your kneejerk reaction belief." Erm ... may I refer you to the second paragraph, first line of my posting No.900? I think you will find that I myself raised the point regarding the profitability of that route ... I believe my description was "ultra profitable". So if you have doubts, let me be quite clear about this. My understanding is that DUB-MAN is an especially profitable route for Ryanair. I seem to recall it being listed as one of the top performers in a Ryanair annual report. I'm not surprised in the least that they didn't drop it (and I thought readers would appreciate my view on this from the comments in posting No.900). I don't for a moment suggest that the other nine MAN routes came close to the performance of this one - but then again, that is true of most other routes across the entire Ryanair network. However, I do stand by my contention that the hasty decision to axe those nine routes was indeed a kneejerk reaction. Furthermore, I did not suggest that these routes had already reached profitability/maturity/success (as they had been operating for a relatively short period of time). I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that any new route has to be built up ... few are instantly profitable straight from inception.
"What percentage of global business do you genuinely believe is based on pure economics and not corporate politics? Very little I'd wager." So let me get this right. You believe that "very little" global business is based on economics??? We will have to disagree on that one, I'm afraid! I acknowledge that corporate politics play a role, but I think you will find that economics is pretty crucial in most business plans.
"If Ryanair had an infinite supply of planes ..." Come off it, now. Nowhere have I remotely suggested that the Ryanair fleet is infinite! In fact, I don't believe that I mentioned Ryanair's fleet size at all. As for the company fleet approaching its intended compliment of 299 units, I think all regular readers on here are aware of the reason for no further aircraft orders at present. In short, the manufacturers and Ryanair could not agree mutually acceptable terms. But your claim that Ryanair's finite fleet size invalidates the points I made in my earlier postings is something else upon which we must disagree. Are you seriously suggesting that Ryanair's sudden decision to axe nine MAN routes immediately after a public spat with M.A.G. was actually made because they would only have 299 aircraft to play with? You are right that I believe that decision to have been a kneejerk one, and I absolutely stand by my claim that shareholders are not well served by petulant actions such as this.
With regard to your suggestion that Ryanair should concentrate on locations which give them the best returns ... agreed. Where did I suggest otherwise? I remind you that the nine MAN routes were axed suddenly and simultaneously to make a point. Do you seriously ask readers here to believe that all nine were deemed to be financial lost causes at exactly the same moment, just after Ryanair had its bust-up with M.A.G.? Nice coincidence. If so, we will just have to agree to disagree again and allow other readers to draw their own conclusions.
Thankyou again for your comments and feedback.
SHED.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 9th Mar 2010 at 02:25. Reason: Minor correction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 77
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair Fly for free
ryanair is opening bases right and left because they have around 42 aircraft grounded this winter, and as life is also dificult for the airports, most of them refuse to park them for free.
Solution? : Open new bases offering free/or almost free flights in return for free parking and very reduced landing fees. Next summer? we will see.
This winter FR lost a lot of money and they are trying to hide it. Let see for how long.
Solution? : Open new bases offering free/or almost free flights in return for free parking and very reduced landing fees. Next summer? we will see.
This winter FR lost a lot of money and they are trying to hide it. Let see for how long.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most bases they announce now are for next summer, not this winter.
Most aircraft are flying a reduced schedule indeed and spending more time on the ground then in the summer as you would expect in the winter.
As far as the money they lost, they will have an annual report and it wil state exactly and in detail where they lost(and made) money, as required by law. Not much to hide there.
Most aircraft are flying a reduced schedule indeed and spending more time on the ground then in the summer as you would expect in the winter.
As far as the money they lost, they will have an annual report and it wil state exactly and in detail where they lost(and made) money, as required by law. Not much to hide there.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being caught out with a boarding card issue or never booking with Ryanair again are personal passenger circumstances that have absolutely no connection to my point that you have fallen into the trap of believing the Ryanair spin you complain about. If you don’t print your own boarding card, Ryanair will charge you €40 to reissue it (except when you’ve been affected by something like the current snow disruption in Girona for example), no spin involved. Ryanair would be me more than happy for you to stand by your "contention that the hasty decision to axe those nine routes was indeed a kneejerk reaction" when in fact the reality is that these nine routes were part of an overall review of UK routes last summer which, given that the majority of them are currently not available from Liverpool, East Midlands or Leeds either, don’t appear to have been feasible without additional discounts from MAG.
Agree with it or not, Ryanair’s general policy is to drop routes that are not profitable within 6 months. In the words of Michael Cawley “The cost for opening a route is low. So we don’t bother trying to analyse the living daylights out of it, we have a look at the demographics, and then make a decision to do it – we accept that around 7-10% might not work but we don’t see this as a failure – we see it as 90% success. We leave routes if we don’t make sustainable profits after six months.”
In my opinion, DUB-MAN would also have had to be dropped to prove a kneejerk reaction. Bremen was one route which was actually switched to Liverpool, this route isn’t available from any other airport in the region suggesting that it did show potential and that Ryanair believed people would still travel to Liverpool if they did actually want to fly direct to Bremen - again this doesn’t really fit in with a kneejerk reaction theory.
Agree with it or not, Ryanair’s general policy is to drop routes that are not profitable within 6 months. In the words of Michael Cawley “The cost for opening a route is low. So we don’t bother trying to analyse the living daylights out of it, we have a look at the demographics, and then make a decision to do it – we accept that around 7-10% might not work but we don’t see this as a failure – we see it as 90% success. We leave routes if we don’t make sustainable profits after six months.”
In my opinion, DUB-MAN would also have had to be dropped to prove a kneejerk reaction. Bremen was one route which was actually switched to Liverpool, this route isn’t available from any other airport in the region suggesting that it did show potential and that Ryanair believed people would still travel to Liverpool if they did actually want to fly direct to Bremen - again this doesn’t really fit in with a kneejerk reaction theory.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not that different than the established charter operators who for years have flown more aircaft in the higher revenue months than in the winter. There is no public service obligation on any route.
Not so long ago Ryanair were running out of flying hours and had to curtail some winter schedules as a result. Now work the guys to the limits in the summer when you can earn more and less in the winter with a change in destinations reflecting change in demand ii.e skiing and canary islands.
Not so long ago Ryanair were running out of flying hours and had to curtail some winter schedules as a result. Now work the guys to the limits in the summer when you can earn more and less in the winter with a change in destinations reflecting change in demand ii.e skiing and canary islands.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BHX
Using Cawley's figures for route cancellations I assume the BHX base is a disaster then?
I make the route cancellations over 33%.
Not that I believe their decision to cancel these routes was wrong, (although NYO, PSA & PGF in summer seemed okay) but in most instances they were totally nuts to start them in the first place.
Surely some kind of route planning is needed?
That is one high % figure of route closures for a base not even two years old.
Pete
I make the route cancellations over 33%.
Not that I believe their decision to cancel these routes was wrong, (although NYO, PSA & PGF in summer seemed okay) but in most instances they were totally nuts to start them in the first place.
Surely some kind of route planning is needed?
That is one high % figure of route closures for a base not even two years old.
Pete
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASED,
Thankyou for your latest comments. Clearly your differences with me relate to matters of opinion and interpretation rather than hard data or facts. On those grounds we have little prospect of reaching an agreement with each other. I suggest that we will have to be content with allowing other readers to make up their own minds based upon our respective postings.
Regards, SHED.
Thankyou for your latest comments. Clearly your differences with me relate to matters of opinion and interpretation rather than hard data or facts. On those grounds we have little prospect of reaching an agreement with each other. I suggest that we will have to be content with allowing other readers to make up their own minds based upon our respective postings.
Regards, SHED.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my view, it's not very smart to perceive everything in a very simplified way. That's also a very basic fault in Ryanair's approach. For example the famous “pile it high and sell it cheap" strategy works in general, but does not convince everyone, possible just a minority. Not everybody will “crawl bollock-naked over broken glass” to get the cheap fares. It would be simply wise to soften the approach to customers, to convince more people to use Ryanair. The negligence will not help.
Too many people still deliberately choose more expensive options just to avoid the airline with its dubious publicity stunts, not friendly enough, abusing, blackmailing, considering stupidities (like pay toilets) and so on. The FR general approach to passengers also looks somewhat faulty. Potential pax want possibly not only cheap fares but also some... well, pretty usual lies about being the “most valued customer” + the average marketing fuss. Denying even the most basic finery in relations to pax results in narrowing the target group. Some will swallow everything just to travel very cheap, others will not. And indeed, an elementary “face lifting” would not even cost very much.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Age: 59
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eu01
Whilst I can agree that criticism is okay - I dont think that
taking the opposite stance in a discussion is wrong.Surely
its the basis of debate through the centuries?
Perhaps I think that Ryanair has found its market and its
market knows what its paying for.The expectations of some
who fly with them may be overblown by their experiences
with other (non so called Lo-cost)airlines.
If I book a flight with Ryanair I know exactly what to expect
- I do not expect four trolleys in the aisle as I experienced
last summer on a domestic flight from LHR - MAN with BA.
I know that if something goes wrong then minimal extra
help will follow - and I except this as the price to fly lo-cost.
I would just like to repeat that for 60m+ passengers Ryanair
is fine but there are plenty of other airlines around who will
transport you to places that will make a fuss of you if that is
what you want.
Some people cannot/do not want to get their heads around
the concept (Ryanairs' at least) of Lo-cost air travel.
No amount of moaning on these forums will change the airlines
operating ideas as far as I know - in fact its the people who
think THEY know best that are the really deluded ones.
Why would I critisize when most posters on here are already
doing that?
Lastly, I guess Im under no grand illusion about Ryanair but at
the end of the day I know what Im paying for (or not)before I commit.
Regards,
MM
Whilst I can agree that criticism is okay - I dont think that
taking the opposite stance in a discussion is wrong.Surely
its the basis of debate through the centuries?
Perhaps I think that Ryanair has found its market and its
market knows what its paying for.The expectations of some
who fly with them may be overblown by their experiences
with other (non so called Lo-cost)airlines.
If I book a flight with Ryanair I know exactly what to expect
- I do not expect four trolleys in the aisle as I experienced
last summer on a domestic flight from LHR - MAN with BA.
I know that if something goes wrong then minimal extra
help will follow - and I except this as the price to fly lo-cost.
I would just like to repeat that for 60m+ passengers Ryanair
is fine but there are plenty of other airlines around who will
transport you to places that will make a fuss of you if that is
what you want.
Some people cannot/do not want to get their heads around
the concept (Ryanairs' at least) of Lo-cost air travel.
No amount of moaning on these forums will change the airlines
operating ideas as far as I know - in fact its the people who
think THEY know best that are the really deluded ones.
Why would I critisize when most posters on here are already
doing that?
Lastly, I guess Im under no grand illusion about Ryanair but at
the end of the day I know what Im paying for (or not)before I commit.
Regards,
MM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ALC - Spain
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New destination
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the Chalfonts
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ciudad Real
Nothing on Ryanair's website about it yet. Presumably in true Ryanair fashion when it does appear given this new airport's high speed train link taking less than an hour to the centre of Madrid they will market it as 'Madrid - Ciudad Real'! 
