Ryanair - 7
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Why would they behave in such a way?
mickyman -
Not being a Ryanair insider, I can only speculate that the company values a penny today more highly than a pound tomorrow. Hit the customer for a misprinted boarding card - £40 in the kitty today, but the customer never rebooks. £40 for the familys' misprinted boarding cards ... £40 multiplied by 'X' persons today, but the family never rebooks. And all their friends get to hear about it, so they don't book either. [I stand to be corrected on the £40 figure, but I think this is the current penalty charge. The principle applies either way].
Then there are all the other hidden penalties and charges, swingeing fees (per person) for using a debit card on a single booking (real transaction costs miniscule). And the fee for checking yourself in using your own time, computer and ink. There are so many aspects of the Ryanair experience which hack customers off. And that is assuming that the booking is not then abruptly changed or cancelled by the airline. Even allowing for the fact that the final fare paid may be very reasonable all considered (and often is), the customer still *feels* mugged and aggrieved.
As you say, why would they behave in such a way? But they do. And in the long term it will be retrospectively identified as having been poor business practice. The marked downturn in the aviation industry is not the result of economic problems alone; it is also a consequence of customers losing the desire to travel on discretionary vacations by air, because the experience has become stressful and unappealing. Customers - having been fleeced at the airport / abandoned / cancelled feel no urgency to rebook for another dose of this discretionary product. The excitement and allure of air travel has evaporated. It has been replaced by apprehension and dread. Ryanair has been a primary culprit in effecting this change.
If you wish to make money by selling leisure travel, then you are in the business of selling DREAMS. Deliver a nightmare, kiss your future business goodbye. Why would they do it? Why do they do it? Why indeed!
A penny gained today, a pound lost tomorrow.
SHED.
Not being a Ryanair insider, I can only speculate that the company values a penny today more highly than a pound tomorrow. Hit the customer for a misprinted boarding card - £40 in the kitty today, but the customer never rebooks. £40 for the familys' misprinted boarding cards ... £40 multiplied by 'X' persons today, but the family never rebooks. And all their friends get to hear about it, so they don't book either. [I stand to be corrected on the £40 figure, but I think this is the current penalty charge. The principle applies either way].
Then there are all the other hidden penalties and charges, swingeing fees (per person) for using a debit card on a single booking (real transaction costs miniscule). And the fee for checking yourself in using your own time, computer and ink. There are so many aspects of the Ryanair experience which hack customers off. And that is assuming that the booking is not then abruptly changed or cancelled by the airline. Even allowing for the fact that the final fare paid may be very reasonable all considered (and often is), the customer still *feels* mugged and aggrieved.
As you say, why would they behave in such a way? But they do. And in the long term it will be retrospectively identified as having been poor business practice. The marked downturn in the aviation industry is not the result of economic problems alone; it is also a consequence of customers losing the desire to travel on discretionary vacations by air, because the experience has become stressful and unappealing. Customers - having been fleeced at the airport / abandoned / cancelled feel no urgency to rebook for another dose of this discretionary product. The excitement and allure of air travel has evaporated. It has been replaced by apprehension and dread. Ryanair has been a primary culprit in effecting this change.
If you wish to make money by selling leisure travel, then you are in the business of selling DREAMS. Deliver a nightmare, kiss your future business goodbye. Why would they do it? Why do they do it? Why indeed!
A penny gained today, a pound lost tomorrow.
SHED.
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today we have pax stats our for easyjet for feb 2010. They are adding 12.3% pax in feb when ryanair added 5.8%.
I know a few people who have been upset by something ryanair have charged them or dropped ther flight. They do tell as many people as they can. Everytime ryanair flece someone they lose lots of possible future paxs. once that did not matter as there was a big market to expand into.
At some point soon ryanair will have a month of negative growth.
I know a few people who have been upset by something ryanair have charged them or dropped ther flight. They do tell as many people as they can. Everytime ryanair flece someone they lose lots of possible future paxs. once that did not matter as there was a big market to expand into.
At some point soon ryanair will have a month of negative growth.
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Shed
It does seem non-sensical of an airline to behave in such a way,
perhaps the decline in passenger numbers is just around the corner?
MM
(PS) Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to comparable airlines
by passenger numbers flown given that Ryanair moved 60m last time
round - thanks. MM
It does seem non-sensical of an airline to behave in such a way,
perhaps the decline in passenger numbers is just around the corner?
MM
(PS) Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to comparable airlines
by passenger numbers flown given that Ryanair moved 60m last time
round - thanks. MM
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Shed - Ryanair were good enough for you when they were at MAN (22 sectors you say) and by your own admission, you'd book again if the price is right and it operates from MAN. In otherwords, all this is really about you being chessed off about them pulling services from your own personal favourite and showing committment to a regional rival. Hardly makes them unique in the airline business and I'm pretty sure the good people of Liverpool, Leeds or whereever could make many a similar claim about business that has gone the other way.
I wonder if you know how much of MAN's passenger traffic comes from a radius greater than the 50 miles you won't travel? I also wonder if you see the irony of the fact that you are able to book 27 flights from MAN in part because consumers behave in exactly the opposite way to you in response to airlines doing exactly the same thing Ryanair are doing (albeit less publically, but doing it nonetheless).
I wonder if you know how much of MAN's passenger traffic comes from a radius greater than the 50 miles you won't travel? I also wonder if you see the irony of the fact that you are able to book 27 flights from MAN in part because consumers behave in exactly the opposite way to you in response to airlines doing exactly the same thing Ryanair are doing (albeit less publically, but doing it nonetheless).
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Going Loco,
Your reasoning is illogical. You argue a cause which I have not challenged. My last post was made in response to a direct question which I have answered as requested. I openly acknowledge in my postings that I WOULD book Ryanair again if they offered me a useful product (which, right now, they don't). The Ryanair tricks which I mentioned (in response to the question "why would they do it?") are well known to me, so I know how to avoid the pitfalls. But many potential customers do get caught out, and whether you like it or not, do adjust their future purchases accordingly. With regard to traveling to other more distant airports, it is exactly as I stated in my earlier post: some customers do, many do not. It is a personal choice. I respect that. But there are considerable extra costs to account for if you do that, not only financial but also the value of elapsed time (even if you wish to calculate that merely at minimum wage rates, which I do not). You seem to have a problem with this? Is money no object for you and your time valueless? Well, good for you!
With regard to Ryanair, I have expressed my belief that they are fundamentally a good business (in my 14:09 post), but expressed my frustration that their strategy of short-term exploitation of customers and suppliers will damage the business in the longer term. Note my emphasis here is that I do not wish to see the business damaged, I simply point out that such is the reality.
I have not expressed any opinion about the decisions of other customers to travel 'more than 50 miles', or to Leeds, or to Liverpool, or to Manchester (as appropriate). This is a matter of individual choice as far as I am concerned. (Though you seem hot under the collar about it - take a chill-pill). But I will - and do - point out the additional costs of traveling to a more distant airport. These are a fact. And for me personally, there is no comparison between the £3 passenger charge at Manchester versus the cost of reaching an airport 50 miles away for an 06:30 departure. Unlike some, I do not choose my airport/airline like a football team. I choose what is cost-effective and convenient for my journey. In my case, that is usually Manchester. Sorry if you don't like it. Well actually, I'm not sorry at all. I really couldn't care less what YOU think about MY travel choices. But an airline business would be well advised to take note of the public's travel preferences if it cares about future prosperity.
By the way, what does "chessed off" mean? I probably am - never liked the game much!
SHED.
Your reasoning is illogical. You argue a cause which I have not challenged. My last post was made in response to a direct question which I have answered as requested. I openly acknowledge in my postings that I WOULD book Ryanair again if they offered me a useful product (which, right now, they don't). The Ryanair tricks which I mentioned (in response to the question "why would they do it?") are well known to me, so I know how to avoid the pitfalls. But many potential customers do get caught out, and whether you like it or not, do adjust their future purchases accordingly. With regard to traveling to other more distant airports, it is exactly as I stated in my earlier post: some customers do, many do not. It is a personal choice. I respect that. But there are considerable extra costs to account for if you do that, not only financial but also the value of elapsed time (even if you wish to calculate that merely at minimum wage rates, which I do not). You seem to have a problem with this? Is money no object for you and your time valueless? Well, good for you!
With regard to Ryanair, I have expressed my belief that they are fundamentally a good business (in my 14:09 post), but expressed my frustration that their strategy of short-term exploitation of customers and suppliers will damage the business in the longer term. Note my emphasis here is that I do not wish to see the business damaged, I simply point out that such is the reality.
I have not expressed any opinion about the decisions of other customers to travel 'more than 50 miles', or to Leeds, or to Liverpool, or to Manchester (as appropriate). This is a matter of individual choice as far as I am concerned. (Though you seem hot under the collar about it - take a chill-pill). But I will - and do - point out the additional costs of traveling to a more distant airport. These are a fact. And for me personally, there is no comparison between the £3 passenger charge at Manchester versus the cost of reaching an airport 50 miles away for an 06:30 departure. Unlike some, I do not choose my airport/airline like a football team. I choose what is cost-effective and convenient for my journey. In my case, that is usually Manchester. Sorry if you don't like it. Well actually, I'm not sorry at all. I really couldn't care less what YOU think about MY travel choices. But an airline business would be well advised to take note of the public's travel preferences if it cares about future prosperity.
By the way, what does "chessed off" mean? I probably am - never liked the game much!
SHED.
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FR@BHX
Summer 2010 schedule seems finalised for the based aircraft after three
of the four weekly Girona flights changed to BHX based aircraft from 5/5/10.
Four based as in 2009 about 10 less flights per week on these and over 15
less away based aircraft a week. Schedule about 20% down with 11 routes gone with five added all operated by Monarch.
Pete
of the four weekly Girona flights changed to BHX based aircraft from 5/5/10.
Four based as in 2009 about 10 less flights per week on these and over 15
less away based aircraft a week. Schedule about 20% down with 11 routes gone with five added all operated by Monarch.
Pete
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Re Bournemouth to Edinborough
Re Bournemouth Edinborough
Ryanair had recently dropped Bournemouth to Prestwick and EDI but now you can fly with Flybe Bournemouth to EDI (via Manchester) as sure it will be a very positive move by Flybe,
Flybe just need to cover the other good routes Ryanair have pulled out off from Bournemouth
Ryanair had recently dropped Bournemouth to Prestwick and EDI but now you can fly with Flybe Bournemouth to EDI (via Manchester) as sure it will be a very positive move by Flybe,
Flybe just need to cover the other good routes Ryanair have pulled out off from Bournemouth
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mickyman -
I know that taking good care of your customers is crucial to success in any business. It is far easier to retain an existing customer than to attract a new one. In business, you will learn this on day one.
Is this concept a little too difficult for you?
SHED.
I know that taking good care of your customers is crucial to success in any business. It is far easier to retain an existing customer than to attract a new one. In business, you will learn this on day one.
Is this concept a little too difficult for you?
SHED.
Shed
Completely agree with you - I am not sure why others are trying to pick holes in what is a very reasoned post.
I got 'shafted' once by Ryanair - I will never fly with them again and have told anyone who cares to listen exactly why. I now only use Ezy, even if more expensive than Ryanair [not often when all the Ryanair costs are taken into account] so Ryanair have 'lost' my custom for 10 flights a year for the last 4 years, and [hopefully] the next 20 years, making a total of over 200 'lost' flights.
I got 'shafted' once by Ryanair - I will never fly with them again and have told anyone who cares to listen exactly why. I now only use Ezy, even if more expensive than Ryanair [not often when all the Ryanair costs are taken into account] so Ryanair have 'lost' my custom for 10 flights a year for the last 4 years, and [hopefully] the next 20 years, making a total of over 200 'lost' flights.
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mickyman,
I have answered your recent questions fully and in good faith and have shown patience in so doing, as I am well aware of your track record of mischief on these boards. However, if you believe you are going to draw me into a petty tit-for-tat slanging match just because you dislike my responses, then you are mistaken.
In accordance with your usual pattern of baiting any contributor who posts an item which you perceive to be critical of Ryanair or Liverpool Airport, you are again indulging in gamesmanship. Do enjoy yourself - I have better things to do. But be assured that you will not succeed in driving me off these discussion threads. I shall post whenever I am minded to do so regardless of your crude attempts at intimidation. I would hope that others will also stand firm against your predictable tactics.
Thankyou to both 'wowzz' and 'no slot' for your responses. wowzz's posting is another illustration of the point I have been making regarding Ryanair's uncanny ability to alienate those who could have become regular customers.
SHED.
P.S. Thankyou also to Noxegon whose posting appeared whilst I was composing this.
I have answered your recent questions fully and in good faith and have shown patience in so doing, as I am well aware of your track record of mischief on these boards. However, if you believe you are going to draw me into a petty tit-for-tat slanging match just because you dislike my responses, then you are mistaken.
In accordance with your usual pattern of baiting any contributor who posts an item which you perceive to be critical of Ryanair or Liverpool Airport, you are again indulging in gamesmanship. Do enjoy yourself - I have better things to do. But be assured that you will not succeed in driving me off these discussion threads. I shall post whenever I am minded to do so regardless of your crude attempts at intimidation. I would hope that others will also stand firm against your predictable tactics.
Thankyou to both 'wowzz' and 'no slot' for your responses. wowzz's posting is another illustration of the point I have been making regarding Ryanair's uncanny ability to alienate those who could have become regular customers.
SHED.
P.S. Thankyou also to Noxegon whose posting appeared whilst I was composing this.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 5th Mar 2010 at 14:33. Reason: Added PS
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Bored at STN due early arrival so just added up my SLF flights since the start of the year and credit where credit is due:
FR 4 X PIK - STN -PIK
BE 3 X GLA - BHX - GLA
2 X GLA - BHD - GLA
1 X GLA - CWL - GLA
1 X GLA - MAN - GLA
EZY 2 X GLA - BRS - GLA
1 X GLA - BFS - GLA
BA 5 X GLA - LHR - GLA
BMI 2 X GLA - LHR - GLA
BMIBaby 1 x GLA - EMA - GLA
Best on time - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BE
Best Value for Money - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BMI
Most Courteous Crew - BE (Not much between them all to be fair)
Worst - BA
Best Aircraft - BE EMB195
Worst - BMIBaby 737
FR 4 X PIK - STN -PIK
BE 3 X GLA - BHX - GLA
2 X GLA - BHD - GLA
1 X GLA - CWL - GLA
1 X GLA - MAN - GLA
EZY 2 X GLA - BRS - GLA
1 X GLA - BFS - GLA
BA 5 X GLA - LHR - GLA
BMI 2 X GLA - LHR - GLA
BMIBaby 1 x GLA - EMA - GLA
Best on time - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BE
Best Value for Money - FR (Followed by EZY)
Worst - BMI
Most Courteous Crew - BE (Not much between them all to be fair)
Worst - BA
Best Aircraft - BE EMB195
Worst - BMIBaby 737
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Shed - let's start over. Your view is that the market as a whole will pay a premium for convenience - fly me from my local airport and I'll pick up the extra cost. My view from the industry is that Ryanair are not alone in seeing things differently - consumers with access to competing airports in a defined market are on average more sensitive to seat price than choice of airport. I accept and respect that you as an individual would pay more for convenience and for what it's worth, so would I. But the market as a whole behaves differently and it seems this applies as much in Poland, Italy, Germany as it does the UK.
The reference to your own local market in the North is make the point that the make up of passengers and routes between the competing airports is evidence that Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line ahead of passenger convenience. Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?
The reference to your own local market in the North is make the point that the make up of passengers and routes between the competing airports is evidence that Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line ahead of passenger convenience. Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?
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Shed
As I have written -I agree with your logic but this airline
defies that logic when you look at their results.
Therefore passengers can only be using them because they
offer a service that is acceptable - is this a wrong
conclusion? or not the one that fits your ideas ??
As to 'baiting' you - I reject this on the grounds that I am
just asking questions that may offer some facts that do not
support your argument-is that not allowed?If you pontificate
be prepared for contension on a semi-public forum like this
- is that wrong -that is all.
Noxegon
Your McDonalds reference - they serve their market -
as do Ryanair.Quality is not everything to all.
MM
As I have written -I agree with your logic but this airline
defies that logic when you look at their results.
Therefore passengers can only be using them because they
offer a service that is acceptable - is this a wrong
conclusion? or not the one that fits your ideas ??
As to 'baiting' you - I reject this on the grounds that I am
just asking questions that may offer some facts that do not
support your argument-is that not allowed?If you pontificate
be prepared for contension on a semi-public forum like this
- is that wrong -that is all.
Noxegon
Your McDonalds reference - they serve their market -
as do Ryanair.Quality is not everything to all.
MM
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Going Loco -
Thankyou for your response. Starting over is fine by me.
Let me address your points in order:
"Your view is that the market as a whole will pay a premium for convenience."
No, this is actually not my view at all. I believe that the phrase I used in an earlier posting was: "Afew will [follow Ryanair to another airport] but many will not." This reflects my true opinion of the situation. I do not accept that there is a "one size fits all" answer; every travel decision made is unique to one customer's priorities. Some people will pay a premium for convenience, others will not. It is a diverse and free market of individuals out there, to generalize about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous.
"Fly me from my local airport and I'll pick up the extra cost."
My own policy is to assess the cost of a journey in its entirety rather than the airfare element in isolation. Hence I factor in the cost of reaching the airport(s) competing for my booking (public transport fares / taxis / car parking etc), the value of time expended in so doing, and incidental costs such as hotel accommodation or meals away from home. In my case, a higher headline airfare from Manchester Airport often wins the day overall because my costs to reach there are low. For other customers this same calculation will influence their purchasing decision differently based on their own circumstances. They may live much closer to the alternative airport than I do; they may receive discounted travel on public transport; they may achieve a better deal on car parking. Again, every decision will be individual. No one size fits all.
"... in a defined market."
The concept of competing airports' catchment areas being a 'defined market' is one which I wholeheartedly reject. If you believe that it is possible to predict the booking patterns of air travelers based on a narrow set of criteria, prepare to be surprised. Again, we return to the point that each traveler's decision is made in response to his/her own priorities and circumstances. In reality, no airport has a defined catchment area. A single customer who may use Manchester for flights to Philadelphia may still choose Leeds-Bradford for a flight to Dublin. Neither decision is necessarily illogical. Another customer may choose a long road journey to Stansted if they source a particularly cheap deal befitting a stag-do (for example). Others will pay whatever it takes to fly from the airport nearby. Catchment areas require detailed study on a route-by-route basis if you wish to understand them more fully, and even then they are a moving target. The best one can hope for is to model the likely behaviour of the majority of a group which is deemed to comprise 'the market' for a particular service. But even then, what exactly constitutes 'the market'? Remember also that customers may actually be in the market for "a weekend away" rather than "a return airfare to Marseilles". Hence, when Ryanair's MAN-MRS offering is withdrawn, the selected alternative could actually be Manchester-Rome with Jet2. Complicated, eh? Mister Market is full of surprises!
"The market as a whole behaves differently"
The market as a whole is the sum of many individuals each making the purchasing decision which best suits them. If two or more alternatives are competing for the customers' business, expect a mixed outcome.
"Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line."
As a rule, agreed, absolutely. And guilt needn't come into it. I expect every business to operate in the interests of its bottom line as a matter of course. Where confusion may have arisen with regards to my view on this particular issue relates to a point in my post of 14:09 yesterday. My contention is that Ryanair's specific decision to abandon nine Manchester routes was nothing to do with the bottom line. They were enraged that MAG would not give them something for nothing and pulled out in a knee-jerk reaction. I suggest that attention to the bottom line was cast aside in favour of making a point (give us a free ride or else?!!!). This particular decision was based on corporate politics, not economics. Accordingly, my view is that this decision was detrimental to the interests of Ryanair shareholders. MAG's [very generous] proposed service charge of around £3 per passenger journey could have been incorporated into fares with minimal resistance from consumers. Instead, Ryanair wrote off the investment made to date in building up those routes, disrupted many passenger journeys by canceling bookings, and forfeited customer goodwill in a rather large market. Many regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business. Those individuals who do place a premium on use of a convenient airport (as I do) are often the most frequent flyers.
"Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?"
The obvious answer here is YES, but let me be clear that I have never advocated a contrary view. The posting which spawned this discussion related to very specific actions by Ryanair in its relationships with assorted airport operators; it is a quite different argument with nuances well beyond geographical location. As a general observation, let me confirm that I am very happy for all airports to offer whatever air services they are capable of sustaining without public subsidy; they all provide employment and pay taxes to the exchequer after all. However, I do oppose measures which distort the market at taxpayer expense to play off one airport against another (as is common on the continent). This is ultimately a zero-sum game at the expense of the public purse. I realize and respect that some readers will disagree with this in principle, but my own view is as stated.
I hope you have found my answers helpful and thank you for your interest.
Cheers, SHED.
Thankyou for your response. Starting over is fine by me.
Let me address your points in order:
"Your view is that the market as a whole will pay a premium for convenience."
No, this is actually not my view at all. I believe that the phrase I used in an earlier posting was: "Afew will [follow Ryanair to another airport] but many will not." This reflects my true opinion of the situation. I do not accept that there is a "one size fits all" answer; every travel decision made is unique to one customer's priorities. Some people will pay a premium for convenience, others will not. It is a diverse and free market of individuals out there, to generalize about the behaviour of the market as a whole is hazardous.
"Fly me from my local airport and I'll pick up the extra cost."
My own policy is to assess the cost of a journey in its entirety rather than the airfare element in isolation. Hence I factor in the cost of reaching the airport(s) competing for my booking (public transport fares / taxis / car parking etc), the value of time expended in so doing, and incidental costs such as hotel accommodation or meals away from home. In my case, a higher headline airfare from Manchester Airport often wins the day overall because my costs to reach there are low. For other customers this same calculation will influence their purchasing decision differently based on their own circumstances. They may live much closer to the alternative airport than I do; they may receive discounted travel on public transport; they may achieve a better deal on car parking. Again, every decision will be individual. No one size fits all.
"... in a defined market."
The concept of competing airports' catchment areas being a 'defined market' is one which I wholeheartedly reject. If you believe that it is possible to predict the booking patterns of air travelers based on a narrow set of criteria, prepare to be surprised. Again, we return to the point that each traveler's decision is made in response to his/her own priorities and circumstances. In reality, no airport has a defined catchment area. A single customer who may use Manchester for flights to Philadelphia may still choose Leeds-Bradford for a flight to Dublin. Neither decision is necessarily illogical. Another customer may choose a long road journey to Stansted if they source a particularly cheap deal befitting a stag-do (for example). Others will pay whatever it takes to fly from the airport nearby. Catchment areas require detailed study on a route-by-route basis if you wish to understand them more fully, and even then they are a moving target. The best one can hope for is to model the likely behaviour of the majority of a group which is deemed to comprise 'the market' for a particular service. But even then, what exactly constitutes 'the market'? Remember also that customers may actually be in the market for "a weekend away" rather than "a return airfare to Marseilles". Hence, when Ryanair's MAN-MRS offering is withdrawn, the selected alternative could actually be Manchester-Rome with Jet2. Complicated, eh? Mister Market is full of surprises!
"The market as a whole behaves differently"
The market as a whole is the sum of many individuals each making the purchasing decision which best suits them. If two or more alternatives are competing for the customers' business, expect a mixed outcome.
"Ryanair aren't the only ones guilty of operating in the interests of their own bottom line."
As a rule, agreed, absolutely. And guilt needn't come into it. I expect every business to operate in the interests of its bottom line as a matter of course. Where confusion may have arisen with regards to my view on this particular issue relates to a point in my post of 14:09 yesterday. My contention is that Ryanair's specific decision to abandon nine Manchester routes was nothing to do with the bottom line. They were enraged that MAG would not give them something for nothing and pulled out in a knee-jerk reaction. I suggest that attention to the bottom line was cast aside in favour of making a point (give us a free ride or else?!!!). This particular decision was based on corporate politics, not economics. Accordingly, my view is that this decision was detrimental to the interests of Ryanair shareholders. MAG's [very generous] proposed service charge of around £3 per passenger journey could have been incorporated into fares with minimal resistance from consumers. Instead, Ryanair wrote off the investment made to date in building up those routes, disrupted many passenger journeys by canceling bookings, and forfeited customer goodwill in a rather large market. Many regular Ryanair customers such as myself are now cut off from convenient access to the wider Ryanair network (Dublin excepted) and as such represent a lost opportunity to the business. Those individuals who do place a premium on use of a convenient airport (as I do) are often the most frequent flyers.
"Wouldn't there be gains and losses at all airports in that market if the industry put their aircraft closest to the point of passenger origin or destination?"
The obvious answer here is YES, but let me be clear that I have never advocated a contrary view. The posting which spawned this discussion related to very specific actions by Ryanair in its relationships with assorted airport operators; it is a quite different argument with nuances well beyond geographical location. As a general observation, let me confirm that I am very happy for all airports to offer whatever air services they are capable of sustaining without public subsidy; they all provide employment and pay taxes to the exchequer after all. However, I do oppose measures which distort the market at taxpayer expense to play off one airport against another (as is common on the continent). This is ultimately a zero-sum game at the expense of the public purse. I realize and respect that some readers will disagree with this in principle, but my own view is as stated.
I hope you have found my answers helpful and thank you for your interest.
Cheers, SHED.
MMan
I must be one of many who are getting tired of your un-questioning loyalty to Ryanair. I, along with many others are in the fortunate position of being able to choose between a number of carriers flying between here in Southern Spain and the UK. The 'occasional' traveller will choose Ryanair because of the low-cost entry-point fare - the serious regular traveller [lets say 10+sectors per year] will go elsewhere. In the long run the serious pax are of the most interest to any business, especially as they will be prepared to pay a higher fare for a more professional service.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lanzarote/Butuan/Southern Yorkshire
Posts: 388
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I travel regularly between South Yorkshire and Lanzarote. I always check Leeds/Bradford, East MIdlands, Manchester and Liverpool.
Invariably, due to flight times, need of a hotel, travel costs etc then Manchester wins the day.
I can more often than not travel with Monarch (paying for extra legroom) from Manchester with the baggage I need than I can by using Ryanair (East Mids/Liverpool) and Jet2 (Leeds/Manchester) at a cheaper price! etc.
Strange that lo-cost seem to be losing to higher-cost airlines offering extra legroom, decent flight times and good customer service........
As a friend of mine flying into Lanzarote was left to fend for himself in Fuerteventura (3 buses, a ferry and a taxi to get to me, 6 hrs minimum) by a certain Lo-cost then I tend to have a slight opinion on customer service.
Invariably, due to flight times, need of a hotel, travel costs etc then Manchester wins the day.
I can more often than not travel with Monarch (paying for extra legroom) from Manchester with the baggage I need than I can by using Ryanair (East Mids/Liverpool) and Jet2 (Leeds/Manchester) at a cheaper price! etc.
Strange that lo-cost seem to be losing to higher-cost airlines offering extra legroom, decent flight times and good customer service........
As a friend of mine flying into Lanzarote was left to fend for himself in Fuerteventura (3 buses, a ferry and a taxi to get to me, 6 hrs minimum) by a certain Lo-cost then I tend to have a slight opinion on customer service.