CARDIFF
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
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Believe it or not that KLM is a very big player at Cardiff and i can't believe that the airport would want to loose them, especially with the likes of AF and LH deciding on BRS.
Cardiff is supposed to be a priority station on the KLM network but im not sure their operations are fully aware of this as they cancelled a flight and downgraded the other on one day.
The person which was in charge of ground operations was at Cardiff that day and they were not too impressed, and clearly stated that Cardiff is a priority station and it shouldn't happen.
The major problem with KLM is that they operate an old fleet where there are limited spares available, but hopefully the fleet renewal for either the F-100 or F-70's will come sooner rather than later.
Whether it's due to the arival of LH and AF at BRS or other reason i am however starting to be worried about the passenger levels, as majority flights are not 3/4 full when on a F-100.
Cardiff is supposed to be a priority station on the KLM network but im not sure their operations are fully aware of this as they cancelled a flight and downgraded the other on one day.
The person which was in charge of ground operations was at Cardiff that day and they were not too impressed, and clearly stated that Cardiff is a priority station and it shouldn't happen.
The major problem with KLM is that they operate an old fleet where there are limited spares available, but hopefully the fleet renewal for either the F-100 or F-70's will come sooner rather than later.
Whether it's due to the arival of LH and AF at BRS or other reason i am however starting to be worried about the passenger levels, as majority flights are not 3/4 full when on a F-100.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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KLM Loads
KLM and AF load factors have been dropping over all their EU network flights.
This is not just CWL. Average LF decrease over their network for May and June has been between 3 and 4% points.
this is similar to a number of other European network carriers and not a surprise in a down cycle.
I am sure however that a number of their old regular pax on the CWL service have probably stopped using them due to reliability concerns. Our customers travelling between Manila, Cebu and Wales are currently choosing to travel either to LHR on EK or still ask for CWL. All of these pax are merchant navy.
Almost all refuse a BRS option if we offer it to them.
This is not just CWL. Average LF decrease over their network for May and June has been between 3 and 4% points.
this is similar to a number of other European network carriers and not a surprise in a down cycle.
I am sure however that a number of their old regular pax on the CWL service have probably stopped using them due to reliability concerns. Our customers travelling between Manila, Cebu and Wales are currently choosing to travel either to LHR on EK or still ask for CWL. All of these pax are merchant navy.
Almost all refuse a BRS option if we offer it to them.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Omigod. Name change? Car park supremo hits the board? Betcha this will lead to more resignations by those few left in the management that have some idea of how to run an airport.
Checking out the Luton thread gives an impression of how Abertis Aeropuertos (or is it TBI still?) is screwing up. Since PD is only going to do what they say he should do, we can expect CWL to be run like a Mexican commuter field. (But with a new Wenglish logo, perhaps?)
We will live to regret complaining about last year's management, I warrant!
Checking out the Luton thread gives an impression of how Abertis Aeropuertos (or is it TBI still?) is screwing up. Since PD is only going to do what they say he should do, we can expect CWL to be run like a Mexican commuter field. (But with a new Wenglish logo, perhaps?)
We will live to regret complaining about last year's management, I warrant!
Join Date: May 2007
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I see Servisair have got the Air Atlantique DC3 flights this Friday, Saturday and Sunday - 9 flights a day for the three days, good little contract they have obtained here !!!!!!
Still hear the Ryan Air rumours are flapping around.................lets hope they turn out to be true this time, be good to see some new destinations on the board other than Palma, Malaga & Alicante.
Witnessed the BMI baby common check-in over the weekend, what a shambles - the queue was down to the Thomson Ticket Desk. To be honest CWL will never be like BRS which is so much smarter & professional lately. Come CWL pull ya socks up, get us some airlines, routes & proper check-in desks !
Still hear the Ryan Air rumours are flapping around.................lets hope they turn out to be true this time, be good to see some new destinations on the board other than Palma, Malaga & Alicante.
Witnessed the BMI baby common check-in over the weekend, what a shambles - the queue was down to the Thomson Ticket Desk. To be honest CWL will never be like BRS which is so much smarter & professional lately. Come CWL pull ya socks up, get us some airlines, routes & proper check-in desks !
Join Date: Aug 2007
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lets hope it is true about ryanair we do need more flights and i agree with you the checking area is a shambles it needs alot more space for people to check in and move around more freely if they wont airlines to setup in cwl
Join Date: Jul 2007
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re the long lines at bmi baby's check-in
what was making the check-in lines go so far across the terminal building?
was the airline / handling agent not managing the snake system properly?
Or was it simply the volume of 3 aircraft using 6 desks? (2 per flight essentially.)
what was making the check-in lines go so far across the terminal building?
was the airline / handling agent not managing the snake system properly?
Or was it simply the volume of 3 aircraft using 6 desks? (2 per flight essentially.)
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I cannot believe they are intending spending tens thousands if not more on investigating a name change for the Airport. For goodness sakes do they seriously think a name change will bring in more routes and flights?
The money invested in some decent research on their catchment area where people want to fly with figures to back them up to give to potential airlines would be a wiser investment.
The money invested in some decent research on their catchment area where people want to fly with figures to back them up to give to potential airlines would be a wiser investment.
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Cardiff check-in
I dont know how Cardiff can not get its act together with check-in. Liverpool old terminal(the shack) had 16 check-in desks yet could deal with in excess of 3m paxs. Cardiff cant manage 2+m pax on is it 20 desks!
Now you can see why airlines are brining in self service check-in not as a revenue generator but as a way of coping with the problems. Handling agents will be come a dying breed soon.
Now you can see why airlines are brining in self service check-in not as a revenue generator but as a way of coping with the problems. Handling agents will be come a dying breed soon.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Check-in times...
Just come back from one of the Spanish islands. The airport was sparklingly modern, ultra clean, easily accessible etc,,,, everything that CWL ( my name suggestion is the T-Rex International; old, crumbling and a relic from the 70's ) is not. The drawback, of course, was where any similarity started, check in. Queues, heat and very short tempers as only 2 check ins open for our flight and others to NCL, LGW; all on B75's and A320's. Almost 33% of desks closed with no-one waiting. I think everywhere I've ever been is more or less the same as far as this issue goes...
Last edited by mrgittins; 26th Jun 2008 at 16:37.
Join Date: May 2007
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I have heard that the Servisair Management at CWL want to have a continual check-in for all TOM flights which would mean one or two desks open during the "quiet" period for any early birds.
Quite a good idea I think as there is nothing worse than having huge queues whne the handling agents open up. Flew with FCA last year and Aviance did not open until dead on the -3 hours and the queues were huge.
Good forward thinking by Servisair but surely Airport should wake up and see the shambles at rush hour 0600-0800 !
Quite a good idea I think as there is nothing worse than having huge queues whne the handling agents open up. Flew with FCA last year and Aviance did not open until dead on the -3 hours and the queues were huge.
Good forward thinking by Servisair but surely Airport should wake up and see the shambles at rush hour 0600-0800 !
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I recently went on holiday from CWL to ZTH with TCX on the 6.15am flight. There were 3 desks open and as I was towards the front of the queue didn't see any evidence of problems at that time of the morning. However, I am sure that if I'd stayed to see the queue grow, along with WW flights, MON to SFB and TOM then I can see it would have been a problem.
However, this was nothing compared with what they had in ZTH. Only 2 carousels at baggage reclaim and you had to guess which one to go to, as there were no signs to say which carousel to go to. With only 2 there it was either one or the other. I have to say though that CWL wins hands down there!
On my return a week later, and after reading some of the horror stories, they have now opened a new departures with 15/16 check in desks. All very good I hear you say. Well yes but they didn't have enough staff to open them all. So 4 lines at check-in for 4 different flightsbut only 3 desks open. At least we were under cover and not out in the hot sunshine (which how it was until they opened the new departures hall).
I know CWL is far from perfect but much better than some I've been to over the years at other airports I've flown to. After saying that though they should do something drastic about check-in and the queues. I dread to think what it would be like if FR decided to start flights, let alone any other airlines that have not yet been set up
However, this was nothing compared with what they had in ZTH. Only 2 carousels at baggage reclaim and you had to guess which one to go to, as there were no signs to say which carousel to go to. With only 2 there it was either one or the other. I have to say though that CWL wins hands down there!
On my return a week later, and after reading some of the horror stories, they have now opened a new departures with 15/16 check in desks. All very good I hear you say. Well yes but they didn't have enough staff to open them all. So 4 lines at check-in for 4 different flightsbut only 3 desks open. At least we were under cover and not out in the hot sunshine (which how it was until they opened the new departures hall).
I know CWL is far from perfect but much better than some I've been to over the years at other airports I've flown to. After saying that though they should do something drastic about check-in and the queues. I dread to think what it would be like if FR decided to start flights, let alone any other airlines that have not yet been set up
Join Date: Jun 2008
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There isn't enough space in the check-in hall for a snake system. Simple as. Nothing to do with Aviance or Servisair.
The Monarch and Thomson queues have stretched enough times, big deal, no-one have picked on Servisair.
Both handling agents do a sterling job at CWL. So what if the queue's stretch sometimes. Its happens to both.
Common check-in doesn't always work. The high flying management who wouldn't know a checkin desk from an aircraft haven't got a clue. People turn up when they want to turn up. No-one is going to turn up more than 3 1/2 hours before their departure, so opening desks all day is a load of rubbish. Wouldn't work for Baby, or anyone else.
This forum is turning into a pathetic nit-picking of handling agents by some people who obviously work for a certain company.
At the end of the day, airlines pay for desks to be open from a certain time and are under no obligation to open sooner. I've seen plenty a Thomson and BMI queue.
There's not much else to do at CWL, so passengers should count themselve lucky the queue's will keep them occupied for a while!
The Monarch and Thomson queues have stretched enough times, big deal, no-one have picked on Servisair.
Both handling agents do a sterling job at CWL. So what if the queue's stretch sometimes. Its happens to both.
Common check-in doesn't always work. The high flying management who wouldn't know a checkin desk from an aircraft haven't got a clue. People turn up when they want to turn up. No-one is going to turn up more than 3 1/2 hours before their departure, so opening desks all day is a load of rubbish. Wouldn't work for Baby, or anyone else.
This forum is turning into a pathetic nit-picking of handling agents by some people who obviously work for a certain company.
At the end of the day, airlines pay for desks to be open from a certain time and are under no obligation to open sooner. I've seen plenty a Thomson and BMI queue.
There's not much else to do at CWL, so passengers should count themselve lucky the queue's will keep them occupied for a while!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Handling...
re: cwlflyer's post; I, for one, certainly do not blame any one business part of CWL regarding this or other points - points only, NOT criticism of handling companies who do the best job they can given the fact that the airport itself seems unwilling to look at issues such as this if it involves spending any money and, say spending a little on the idea of TOM having a desk continually. It would make handling better for the staff who will not be under so much pressure and, of course, better for the pax, who, is why we are there to make their experience better so they use CWL again. They pay the rent at the end of the day !
Pax do arrive at all times esp early am flights - I know taxi drivers and people at satellite car parks who get people at CWL as early as 02:00 for all sorts of reasons. They choose to come in then and don't expect to be entertained but start their trip calmly and relaxed.
Marie-Antionette attitude of ''let them eat cake'' in 2008 does not work !
Pax do arrive at all times esp early am flights - I know taxi drivers and people at satellite car parks who get people at CWL as early as 02:00 for all sorts of reasons. They choose to come in then and don't expect to be entertained but start their trip calmly and relaxed.
Marie-Antionette attitude of ''let them eat cake'' in 2008 does not work !
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Handling and manned check in desks go hand in hand
As an airline manager, I read your notes with interest but feel compelled to tell you a few facts.
Simple facts about passengers and check in at most airports in Europe.
1: Airlines pay handling agents to handle their passengers at the larger airports who don't do their own handling.
2: some pay for more than 2 desks to be manned, some only pay for one per flight. It all depends on costs, potential number of pax, a/c size and fundamentally what the airline is trying to achieve. (normally saving money.)
3: An airport facility should not be held accountable for how many desks are manned for any particular flight. This is the airlines and their appointed agents who make this decision.
4: likewise, deciding on what system is used to manage the lines is normally done in conjunction between an airline, it's handling agent and an airport customer service or terminal duty team.
5: Yes an airport facility should be able to provide desks that can be used to cater for their declared terminal capacity according to health and safety regulations. Did you know an airport slot co-ordinator will not allow airlines to have certain slots if declared terminal capacity is broken at any time. The airline will be told to change they slot. This is all done months in advance. (We had to apply for our winter slots two weeks ago.)
Bearing all the above in mind, do you all still feel the airport management are soley to blame for badly manned check in desks and lines or do you now see that it is more apparent that actually it is a combination of cost management by ourselves (airlines,) and handling agents who jointly decide on how best to handle check-in.
Simple facts about passengers and check in at most airports in Europe.
1: Airlines pay handling agents to handle their passengers at the larger airports who don't do their own handling.
2: some pay for more than 2 desks to be manned, some only pay for one per flight. It all depends on costs, potential number of pax, a/c size and fundamentally what the airline is trying to achieve. (normally saving money.)
3: An airport facility should not be held accountable for how many desks are manned for any particular flight. This is the airlines and their appointed agents who make this decision.
4: likewise, deciding on what system is used to manage the lines is normally done in conjunction between an airline, it's handling agent and an airport customer service or terminal duty team.
5: Yes an airport facility should be able to provide desks that can be used to cater for their declared terminal capacity according to health and safety regulations. Did you know an airport slot co-ordinator will not allow airlines to have certain slots if declared terminal capacity is broken at any time. The airline will be told to change they slot. This is all done months in advance. (We had to apply for our winter slots two weeks ago.)
Bearing all the above in mind, do you all still feel the airport management are soley to blame for badly manned check in desks and lines or do you now see that it is more apparent that actually it is a combination of cost management by ourselves (airlines,) and handling agents who jointly decide on how best to handle check-in.
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It's a common known fact that passengers travelling on domestic flights, especially business people, will not arrive for their flight more than 2 hours before their scheduled departure time.
On the other hand, passengers travelling further afield will.
Lo-cost, I.E BMI Baby, pay for their desks to be open 2 hours before departure, it saves them money.
Charter pay for 3 hours before departure, it makes the check-in experience better for the passenger, or the aircraft is larger.
Long Haul pay for 4 hours before departure, normally due to larger aircraft size.
In reality, if your holiday flight abroad departs at 5-7am, your not going to want to sleep the night before, before making the trip to the airport for a 3/4/5 am check-in. Especially if you have some distance to travel. This is one reason why you see passengers early at the airport. However, this is a small minority, of which can normally be checked in within minutes of the check-in desk opening at -3.
Baby often have a large queue in the early hours, if baby payed for their desks to be open at -3 instead -2 before departure, the queue wouldnt be as bad by the time the desks open. The deciding factor on queue's boils down to departure time and destination.
You dont see huge queue's for the FlyBe domestic flights at -2.
Handling agents need to effectively manage their staff. If they are going to provide an extra agent for longer than the contracted times, i highly doubt the airline will stump up the cost.
Why pay for another agent to be open, just to check in a couple of passengers who have arrived early. This in turn means you need to provide extra baggage handlers to process the bags, extra security agents to process the passengers once checked in, will the shops want to open earlier?
In an ideal world, its great customer service, and for the airport its great as it provides better passenger flow, the less time passengers are queueing, the more time they are speding money in shops. However, in a cost minded tough industry, its not cost effective.
On the other hand, passengers travelling further afield will.
Lo-cost, I.E BMI Baby, pay for their desks to be open 2 hours before departure, it saves them money.
Charter pay for 3 hours before departure, it makes the check-in experience better for the passenger, or the aircraft is larger.
Long Haul pay for 4 hours before departure, normally due to larger aircraft size.
In reality, if your holiday flight abroad departs at 5-7am, your not going to want to sleep the night before, before making the trip to the airport for a 3/4/5 am check-in. Especially if you have some distance to travel. This is one reason why you see passengers early at the airport. However, this is a small minority, of which can normally be checked in within minutes of the check-in desk opening at -3.
Baby often have a large queue in the early hours, if baby payed for their desks to be open at -3 instead -2 before departure, the queue wouldnt be as bad by the time the desks open. The deciding factor on queue's boils down to departure time and destination.
You dont see huge queue's for the FlyBe domestic flights at -2.
Handling agents need to effectively manage their staff. If they are going to provide an extra agent for longer than the contracted times, i highly doubt the airline will stump up the cost.
Why pay for another agent to be open, just to check in a couple of passengers who have arrived early. This in turn means you need to provide extra baggage handlers to process the bags, extra security agents to process the passengers once checked in, will the shops want to open earlier?
In an ideal world, its great customer service, and for the airport its great as it provides better passenger flow, the less time passengers are queueing, the more time they are speding money in shops. However, in a cost minded tough industry, its not cost effective.
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I would have thought you dont see huge queue's for flybe at -2 because flybe's flights take off after 8am, and there is also a difference in aircraft size compared to bmibaby, e.g B733 = upto 148 checking in, flybe's DH4 upto 79 checking in
Join Date: Aug 2007
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baby
baby will be cutting back baby will be cutting back this winter ‘No-frills’ airline to cut flights - WalesOnline
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Well it makes sense to me. I wonder which routes they'll be cutting back on? I would imagine EDI, GLA and BFS seeing as BE flies to these desinations as well. They have much moe fuel effiecnt aircraft on the shorter routes. Let's wait a couple of weeks and see what they announce
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baby
yes im sure it will be those routes its a shame all other airports still getting new routes but cwl losing more and more routes. the winter will be dead its not that busy now in the summer whats going on at cwl board room all just sat there drinking tea when the airport going down hill fast call itself an airport