BELFAST (BHD) - 3
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With reference to EI we all thought a year ago that their routes seemed not to well thought out. They ploughed on, didn't get the code share agreement with KLM, which would have made the difference. They seemed to have learnt the hardway with regards to choice of routes. Is this bad management. Also they are still dragging their heals with getting it right on LHR/BFS. They could do so much better if they sorted out their timings and maybe get an extra flight in somehow. If they sorted that out, BD's decline which has been constant for years now would continue and EI would get the upper hand on the route.
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gate22, what do you mean not getting it right on the Heathrow route, 70% load is a certainly a step in the right direction? The slots they hold are non negotiable. Outside of an earlier flight what is that matter? We got the Shannon timings fair and square, to modify the schedule it would require changes to Dublin or Corks timings both of which are very profitable routes.
There is such rubbish going around about Aer Lingus' lack of success on the Heathrow/Belfast route compared to Shannon/Heathrow.
All in all the move from Shannon (of the LHR slots) has been a great success . The numbers on BFS LHR are last month almost where the SNN ones were plus and importantly Cork/Heathrow is up massively on the same time last year, most of the extra passenger are would have been SNNLHR passenger so when the real picture is seen it is positive.
Aer Lingus will be around and they will stick with BFS come what may. If Aer Lingus cannot make BFS Work they will have to forget any other bases. THe Ireland and UK markets are saturated for the most part aswell as in Aer Lingus' case Ryanair following them to any new markets it is not easy.
I think that if Aer Lingus wants to success long term (or any airline for that matter) they will need to stick at the market until enough of the competition gets out to make it work for them. So that will depend on how deep their pockets are and the shape of their cost base.
We will see how Ryanair gets on at the City airport, reports are that they are losing a fortune with rock bottom fares and will it be one of the markets to get the axe??? I am thinking that over the next few months MOL might get into a big dispute with the city airport while its sale is on the cards?
What does anyone else think?
There is such rubbish going around about Aer Lingus' lack of success on the Heathrow/Belfast route compared to Shannon/Heathrow.
All in all the move from Shannon (of the LHR slots) has been a great success . The numbers on BFS LHR are last month almost where the SNN ones were plus and importantly Cork/Heathrow is up massively on the same time last year, most of the extra passenger are would have been SNNLHR passenger so when the real picture is seen it is positive.
Aer Lingus will be around and they will stick with BFS come what may. If Aer Lingus cannot make BFS Work they will have to forget any other bases. THe Ireland and UK markets are saturated for the most part aswell as in Aer Lingus' case Ryanair following them to any new markets it is not easy.
I think that if Aer Lingus wants to success long term (or any airline for that matter) they will need to stick at the market until enough of the competition gets out to make it work for them. So that will depend on how deep their pockets are and the shape of their cost base.
We will see how Ryanair gets on at the City airport, reports are that they are losing a fortune with rock bottom fares and will it be one of the markets to get the axe??? I am thinking that over the next few months MOL might get into a big dispute with the city airport while its sale is on the cards?
What does anyone else think?
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gate22, what do you mean not getting it right on the Heathrow route
I am simply saying that they could do better with the timings sorted out, business pax pay more as they book quite late and like an early start. I know slots at LHR don't grow on trees but there must be away of getting an early during the summer and maintaining 4 during the winter. The Belfast/LHR corridor is similar in volume to Cork and Shannon combined.
big dispute with the city airport while its sale is on the cards
Well MOL will see this as an opportunity, as they have increased passengers through the airport by 20%. However is this a good time to sell the airport, bearing in mind 1. The economic climate and 2. There are other airports in the UK coming up for sale about the same time. What do you think.
I am simply saying that they could do better with the timings sorted out, business pax pay more as they book quite late and like an early start. I know slots at LHR don't grow on trees but there must be away of getting an early during the summer and maintaining 4 during the winter. The Belfast/LHR corridor is similar in volume to Cork and Shannon combined.
big dispute with the city airport while its sale is on the cards
Well MOL will see this as an opportunity, as they have increased passengers through the airport by 20%. However is this a good time to sell the airport, bearing in mind 1. The economic climate and 2. There are other airports in the UK coming up for sale about the same time. What do you think.
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gate 22, i know what you mean about the LHR timings. It makes no sense to tamper with the Cork timings despite the scale of the Belfast Heathrow market. I thought last winter when EI came in that they should swap all sorts of stuff around to make the biggest effort to compete with Bmi and indeed Easyjets London flights.
Switching a Cork movement to BFS is only transferring the problem from one place to another. The only realistic alternative is to get another slot which is at the preferred time of the day mega expensive and limited in availability.
Let hope that there are new slots coming anyway.
As for BHD It looks like Ryanair are losing a packet and I think MOL is realising that the competition in this market is not going to keel over. We may see a Cork airport style row with MOL.
And my money would bet that a change in ownership will not be without its own challenges. The change of ownership will mean an increase in cost base and this is not going to be any easier for FR, i would imagine that they are on a knock down deal at the moment.
Switching a Cork movement to BFS is only transferring the problem from one place to another. The only realistic alternative is to get another slot which is at the preferred time of the day mega expensive and limited in availability.
Let hope that there are new slots coming anyway.
As for BHD It looks like Ryanair are losing a packet and I think MOL is realising that the competition in this market is not going to keel over. We may see a Cork airport style row with MOL.
And my money would bet that a change in ownership will not be without its own challenges. The change of ownership will mean an increase in cost base and this is not going to be any easier for FR, i would imagine that they are on a knock down deal at the moment.
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How do we know that FR are doing badly at BHD (I am just curious). I have looked at prices on occasions and they have not been cheap all the time. They now carry more BHD/STN than BFS/STN. They actually have been very good with their time keeping as well, which I thought would have been a problem with the curfew etc. I can also remember that MOL mentioned he was losing money at only 1 or 2 of his bases - Shannon being one, BHD wasn't mentioned. But my guess, as you say EI-BUD, is that there probably will be a barney between BHD and FR over the airport sale or runway extension.
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At the fares RYR have been dumping BHD-STN at they wouldn't even pay for the 2.5T of fuel required to get to STN. This is my point on EI's LHR service. At the beginning of August you could book virtually any flight the following week for £1 plus tax. In the middle of summer??? There may be other reasons for this too. The SNN lobby is very very bitter over the move and it could be EI's attempt to prove they can put bums on seats in BFS.
EI were never going to enter BFS without haemorraging money. If they thought it was going to happen any other way then they were foolish. Where EI wins is allocated seating. That's it. This is enough for some and a fair point. Service wise they are no different to EZY or JET2 (all of whom are years ahead of RYR which is grim)
EI were never going to enter BFS without haemorraging money. If they thought it was going to happen any other way then they were foolish. Where EI wins is allocated seating. That's it. This is enough for some and a fair point. Service wise they are no different to EZY or JET2 (all of whom are years ahead of RYR which is grim)
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I think there is a possibility to give Belfast an earlier slot. There are 6:40am and 7:20am departures to Heathrow from Dublin (6:40am and 7:50am in Winter). There are also A330s around that have come in from transatlantic and which could squeeze in a London rotation, so if EI operated the first flight from Dublin with an A330, gave the second slot to Belfast and used the existing Belfast slot from Dublin, they could give Belfast an earlier slot without it having too bad an impact on Dublin. It would also free up an aircraft in Dublin for a potential rotation to elsewhere in the UK.
KLM do someting similar (a B777) with one of their early flights from Amsterdam to Heathrow. They get extra utilization out of one of their long-haul aircraft, which would otherwise be hanging around, and extra capacity into Heathrow.
Would there be any union agreements that could be a problem on that? Also, what is the situation with A330 flightdeck crew? Is there still a problem with hours?
KLM do someting similar (a B777) with one of their early flights from Amsterdam to Heathrow. They get extra utilization out of one of their long-haul aircraft, which would otherwise be hanging around, and extra capacity into Heathrow.
Would there be any union agreements that could be a problem on that? Also, what is the situation with A330 flightdeck crew? Is there still a problem with hours?
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Always amazes me the endless abuse of FR on this forum. I have used them several times in the last year from BHD to Prestwick, East Mids and stansted. Have always got low fares by booking well in advance, checked in on-line and flew with no delays or problems.
They also consistently top the tables with lowest numbers of lost bags and highest punctuality.
Is the critisism due to some type of airport workers snobbery or just annoyance at FR's brand of public relations?
They also consistently top the tables with lowest numbers of lost bags and highest punctuality.
Is the critisism due to some type of airport workers snobbery or just annoyance at FR's brand of public relations?
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EI LHR-BFS Timings
EI-BUD,
I believe that there is much scope for EI to improve BFS-LHR timings. Especially right now. EI is free to trade and swop slots with other airlines and BA for one may have slots it wants to loan (rent?) for the medium term. After all they do code-share with BA. The catch 22 for changing the slots is the knock-on for the aircraft utilisation through the day. With 3 BFS-based aircraft it should be manageable though.
However I'm sure EI are mindful of the need to keep the option of abandoning BFS and running back down south. Perhaps that is what is preventing them from committing fully.
One thing is for sure, recession or not, the last route standing would be LHR, so I'm hoping EI will see fit to get to a decent 4 rotations a day.
Some may have noticed that easyjet has quietly cut back the BFS-LGW even since the start of the winter schedule. This surely will hand traffic to IE?
People will laugh themselves half to death at the suggestion, but a bit of schedule cooperation between EI and EZY could benefit them both.
There are another few obstacles for EI over BMI that are not widely discussed. One is the unpublished "Route Deals" that BMI offer for Public Service travel. The other two are Lounge and frequent flyer miles. EI are pretty stingy with the miles even on higher fares and of course only collectable via EI or BA (I think?).
Frequent flyer miles are less of a draw these days when the taxes and charges can equal the full price of current sale offers. The sale offers may even be available when you want to fly, which is more than can be said of many redemption flights.
BMI's treatment of people on cancelled flights is mentioned in a post above. It really is dire. I have been dumped on by BMI recently too. They cancel your flight, refuse accomodation, argue when you insist that you want your money back, refuse to reimburse the booking fee. Nice experience.
I do believe they are quite selective about the flights they cancel too(for whatever reason) i.e the flight with the most leisure passengers will be dumped. This logic is somewhat flawed, as like myself the dumped passenger is likely to have the occasion to travel again, very likely on business.
On this occasion I set myself a target of not travelling BMI until I have cost them £1000 revenue. Already well on the way with 1 return booked on EZY and 3 returns on EI. (To be fair I had booked one EI anyway).
The above notwithstanding the EI product is good. Comfy seats and pleasant staff. Goes a long way.
Just wish they could get the schedule sorted!
I believe that there is much scope for EI to improve BFS-LHR timings. Especially right now. EI is free to trade and swop slots with other airlines and BA for one may have slots it wants to loan (rent?) for the medium term. After all they do code-share with BA. The catch 22 for changing the slots is the knock-on for the aircraft utilisation through the day. With 3 BFS-based aircraft it should be manageable though.
However I'm sure EI are mindful of the need to keep the option of abandoning BFS and running back down south. Perhaps that is what is preventing them from committing fully.
One thing is for sure, recession or not, the last route standing would be LHR, so I'm hoping EI will see fit to get to a decent 4 rotations a day.
Some may have noticed that easyjet has quietly cut back the BFS-LGW even since the start of the winter schedule. This surely will hand traffic to IE?
People will laugh themselves half to death at the suggestion, but a bit of schedule cooperation between EI and EZY could benefit them both.
There are another few obstacles for EI over BMI that are not widely discussed. One is the unpublished "Route Deals" that BMI offer for Public Service travel. The other two are Lounge and frequent flyer miles. EI are pretty stingy with the miles even on higher fares and of course only collectable via EI or BA (I think?).
Frequent flyer miles are less of a draw these days when the taxes and charges can equal the full price of current sale offers. The sale offers may even be available when you want to fly, which is more than can be said of many redemption flights.
BMI's treatment of people on cancelled flights is mentioned in a post above. It really is dire. I have been dumped on by BMI recently too. They cancel your flight, refuse accomodation, argue when you insist that you want your money back, refuse to reimburse the booking fee. Nice experience.
I do believe they are quite selective about the flights they cancel too(for whatever reason) i.e the flight with the most leisure passengers will be dumped. This logic is somewhat flawed, as like myself the dumped passenger is likely to have the occasion to travel again, very likely on business.
On this occasion I set myself a target of not travelling BMI until I have cost them £1000 revenue. Already well on the way with 1 return booked on EZY and 3 returns on EI. (To be fair I had booked one EI anyway).
The above notwithstanding the EI product is good. Comfy seats and pleasant staff. Goes a long way.
Just wish they could get the schedule sorted!
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EI could probably add an A330 to a morning Dublin/Heathrow rotation and drop one and hence free up a rotation on the route without a drop in seats, however there are a few issues. 1. There is 2 classes of service on the A330 that is not suitable as an ongoing offer on a Dublin/London service. Secondly, if weather hampers flights on the Atlantic ie delays by weather or simply issues around the schedule it will have an impact on crucial early morning flights. Management are not in favour of this option.
Furthermore While BA may have slots for swap lease etc. These you will find are not usually for early peak slots as we want. They will be at a price more than EI may want to pay and the code share arrangement will have no bearing on this price.
According to EI website BFS LHR will be x3 daily for next summer.... doesnt sound to me like they want more slots....?
Furthermore While BA may have slots for swap lease etc. These you will find are not usually for early peak slots as we want. They will be at a price more than EI may want to pay and the code share arrangement will have no bearing on this price.
According to EI website BFS LHR will be x3 daily for next summer.... doesnt sound to me like they want more slots....?
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CaptJ
Just read what you said about EZY cutting back the winter schedule. The last flight back from STN and LGW is very early and LTN and LGW down to 4 a day each way.. and STN staying at5! A total no surrender to Ryanair?
Ei_bud
Just read what you said about EZY cutting back the winter schedule. The last flight back from STN and LGW is very early and LTN and LGW down to 4 a day each way.. and STN staying at5! A total no surrender to Ryanair?
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Easyjet have taken the axe to many of the routes ex bfs this winter. Gla, Edi, Brs and Ncl all down to 2x daily on some days during the week. Lpl sees reductions as well. I can't believe easy policy re Gla and Edi. For quite a while these were 4x daily, now during the week, 2x daily. Surely the reduction in pax can't be that big. At times I think Easy destroy routes out of Belfast, what good is 2 x daily to Gla or Edi, in my opinion. Time for Jet2 or Aer Lingus to step in and mark out some ground?
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Fair point. There does seem to be a lack of commercial understanding of matters in NI. Last year EZY developed the INV route...then gave it to Flybe. This year they cocked up the AGP timings to annoy EI and suceeded instead in annoying the regular punters who then jumped on the Jet2 afternoon flight (that said..they are still top on that route). BFS loses a tractor this winter with further schedule reductions on top. Money just isn't made in winter.
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True Blue
Aer Lingus have said there is no way that they will look at any UK route from BFS at all other than LHR. Thats from an Aer Lingus employee. So unlikely that any other company will supplement the easyjet reduced timetable.
I had rather hoped that they would look at a few destinations on a daily basis that may be good additions to the schedule during the day between European rotations.
Aer Lingus have said there is no way that they will look at any UK route from BFS at all other than LHR. Thats from an Aer Lingus employee. So unlikely that any other company will supplement the easyjet reduced timetable.
I had rather hoped that they would look at a few destinations on a daily basis that may be good additions to the schedule during the day between European rotations.
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I think thats a great idea of Aer Lingus putting on an A330 on an early morning DUB-LHR flight and transferring a morning slot from Dublin to Belfast. The A330's are in Dublin airport for several hours in the morning and could fit in a short haul flight to Heathrow. Aer Lingus have put A330's on morning Dublin-Malaga flights before the aircraft is used to fly back to the US.
Maybe Aer Lingus are waiting to build their traffic volumes out of Belfast before they'll consider an extra rotation!
Maybe Aer Lingus are waiting to build their traffic volumes out of Belfast before they'll consider an extra rotation!
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EI-BUD
I'm told bmi's schedule will be out within the next 10 days...
With regards to aircraft type operating each route, there was a bmi cargo website where it detailed the planned aircraft for that route but I cant seem to find it now.. I'll take another look this evening...
I'm told bmi's schedule will be out within the next 10 days...
With regards to aircraft type operating each route, there was a bmi cargo website where it detailed the planned aircraft for that route but I cant seem to find it now.. I'll take another look this evening...
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See EI has announced that they have taken their 500,000th booking at bfs since they started 9 months ago. Well done and hope they have more success and routes out of Bfs.
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