BELFAST (BHD) - 3

[belfastmark]

I think out off all the routes that Ibiza will do well, there are relatively few flights offered from BFS. I know easy and jet2 but thats only 3 flights a week.

As Baby have released their flights so early perhaps this gives the likes of Aer Lingus a chance to start a new route instead of Alicante so they are not head to head? I know Easyjet wont back down but perhaps other airlines will have the sense not to battle it out in an over saturated market.

Looking at other routes Baby do, could they not have flew to Almeria in Spain.. A niche route but still spain, perhaps even a weekly Sardinia the list goes on..

True BLue- yes with the last bunch of routes they announced, but why would flybe be annoyed at them serving europe, if the airport were as keen as they say about getting europane routes I am sure they would litreally have begged Flybe for some routes to Europe. I really do wonder why Flybe never started Europe routes!?

[Cazza_fly]

True BLue- yes with the last bunch of routes they announced, but why would flybe be annoyed at them serving europe, if the airport were as keen as they say about getting europane routes I am sure they would litreally have begged Flybe for some routes to Europe. I really do wonder why Flybe never started Europe routes!?

Exactly, it's not as if Flybe have never had the opportunity if they wanted to, I'm sure BHD wouldn't have said no to them.

meanwhile their most loyal customer, Flybe, is just pushed aside again. If I was Flybe I would be seriously p***ed off, I would get some routes going out of Bfs.

Why are Flybe being pushed aside? They have as much opportunity to expand on routes as any other airline. If bmibaby want to expand services then they have every right to do so too... BHD is a business and can't be expected to just have one or two airline soperating from there with no competition if money and passenger numbers are to be gained.

[ILS25]

Competition between airlines and both Belfast airports will always be a good thing for the paying passenger, but what is the environmental impact of multiple airlines covering the same routes and flying with partial loads?

Do we have an Environment minister here in Northern Ireland ? Where is he ?

In a world where the large majority of us are doing our best to decrease our carbon footprint surely our local government can see that our aviation industry are doing the opposite. None of it makes any sense to me.

[Hull City AFC]

bmibaby Summer 2012 BHD Timetable...

Has anyone figured out which aircraft are doing what? There seems to be alot off the flights on a Sat? Have they still not wised up and added a Sat STN service for next year? Doesnt seem to be much on a Monday....

Below is the Summer 2012 bmibaby timetable for Belfast City Airport.

Early indications show (unless the times change) that one of the planes swaps twice a day. Both the EMA & BHD planes leaves their relevent airport at 07:00 and land at 08:05 and then the plane that lands at belfast has a 25 minute turn around for the next flight out. In the afternoon, it seems that the inbound plane lands at 16:05 (BHD based that went to EMA in the morning) and then the plane that came into BHD from EMA in the morning is ready to go back to EMA with 16:10 departure - 5 mins for crew to swap planes.

If this is their plan then their could be some lengthy delays/ cancellations happening if one plane goes tech etc.

Monday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:40 - 10:00 - London Stansted
10:25 - 14:25 - Amsterdam
14:55 - 18:05 - London Stansted
18:30 - 20:55 - Manchester

Aircraft 2:-
07:00 - 08:05 - East Midlands
08:30 - 15:20 - Alicante
17:35 - 20:45 - London Stansted

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:10 Dep 08:35
Birmingham: Arr 18:45 Dep 19:25
East Midlands Arr 16:05 Dep 16:10
East Midlands: Arr 18:50 Dep:19:25

Tuesday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:40 - 10:00 - London Stansted
10:25 - 14:25 - Amsterdam
14:55 - 18:05 - London Stansted
18:30 - 20:55 - Manchester

Aircraft 2:-
07:00 - 08:05 - East Midlands
08:30 - 15:25 - Palma
17:35 - 20:45 - London Stansted

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:10 Dep 08:35
Birmingham: Arr 18:45 Dep 19:25
East Midlands Arr 16:05 Dep 16:10
East Midlands: Arr 18:50 Dep:19:25

Wednesday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:40 - 10:00 - London Stansted
10:30 - 13:00 - Manchester
14:00 - 17:10 - London Stansted
17:35 - 20:45 - London Stansted

Aircraft 2:-
07:00 - 08:05 - East Midlands
08:30 - 15:45 - Malaga
16:40 - 20:40 - Amsterdam

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:10 Dep 08:35
Birmingham: Arr 18:45 Dep 19:25
East Midlands Arr 16:05 Dep 16:10
East Midlands: Arr 18:50 Dep:19:25

Thursday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:40 - 10:00 - London Stansted
10:30 - 13:00 - Manchester
14:00 - 17:10 - London Stansted
17:35 - 20:45 - London Stansted

Aircraft 2:-
07:00 - 08:05 - East Midlands
08:30 - 15:35 - Faro
16:40 - 20:40 - Amsterdam

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:10 Dep 08:35
Birmingham: Arr 18:45 Dep 19:25
East Midlands Arr 16:05 Dep 16:10
East Midlands: Arr 18:50 Dep:19:25

Friday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:40 - 10:00 - London Stansted
10:30 - 13:00 - Manchester
14:00 - 17:10 - London Stansted
17:35 - 20:45 - London Stansted

Aircraft 2:-
07:00 - 08:05 - East Midlands
08:30 - 15:20 - Alicante
16:40 - 20:40 - Amsterdam

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:10 Dep 08:35
East Midlands Arr 16:05 Dep 16:10
Birmingham: Arr 17:45 Dep 18:10
East Midlands: Arr 18:50 Dep:19:25
Birmingham: Arr 20:45 Dep 21:10

Saturday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:35 - 13:25 - Alicante
14:10 - 21:05 - Ibiza

Aircraft 2:-
06:30 - 13:45 - Malaga
14:15 - 21:10 - Palma

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 08:05 Dep 08:30
East Midlands: Arr 08:55 Dep:09:20

Sunday:-

Aircraft 1:-
06:35 - 13:40 - Faro
14:10 - 16:35 - East Midlands
17:10 - 21:10 - Amsterdam

Aircraft 2:-
06:30 - 13:45 - Malaga
14:15 - 17:25 - London Stansted
17:50 - 20:10 - Manchester

W Patterns:-
Birmingham: Arr 18:05 Dep 18:30
Birmingham: Arr 20:35 Dep 21:00
East Midlands: Arr 19:50 Dep:20:15

[Rinty]

Very disappointing that an airline tries to expand locally and provide some competition for Easyjet (to the ultimate benefit of the consumer) and the vast majority of posts are of the doom and gloom variety.

BHD and BMI are businesses, not civil service organisations. Their aim is to make money for their shareholders. If they feel that these routes are the ones most likely to succeed then I certianly am not qualified to question this. Routes will come and go and the first one dropped will provide endless calls of 'I told you so' from the above posters.

My opinion is well done to BMI for picking up the ball that Flybe wouldnt.

[sarcon]

It's not that posters feel doom or gloom about airlines developing new routes that will boost their income and grow the income and investment in the areas they serve. It is that the baby announcement brings nothing new to the party. There may be a short term benefit for the passenger but it will be as it has been in the past, short term. BA has yet again encouraged an airline to start routes already served from NI, sometimes even from his own airport. TIL and the City Centre Organisation who have welcomed the decision, should be ashamed of themselves, it shows their lack of understanding of the business. With the possible exception of the AMS, already served 9 times per week, these routes will not generate one inbound passenger.
I would suggest that with the Ryanair and Easyjet ventures having both failed, the For Sale sign should be erected quickly before the increased competition from Easyjet impacts these planned routes and the current dream of growth becomes another nightmare, with even fewer options left, and even less chance for any return on Hans investment. But as banks regularly say, the value of your investment can go down as well as up.

[JobsaGoodun]

Rinty - perhaps as far as Flybe were concerned, that ball wasn't worth picking up?

[tigger2k8]

I see they still want the runway extension, so they can copy even more routes from 15 odd miles away ..

Runway extension 'still necessary' - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Its not so much doom and gloom posts, but when you look at it like this, if Summer 2012 is the same as 2011 then.. source is Wiki, could be wrong..

AGP - Aer, Lingus, easyJet, Thomson,
ALC -Aer Lingus, easyJet, Jet2, Thomas Cook,
PMI - Air Europa, easyJet, Jet2, Thomas Cook, Thomson, Travel Service
FAO - Aer Lingus, easyJet, Iberworld, Thomson,
IBZ - easyJet, Jet2, Thomas Cook, Travel Service
AMS - easyJet,
GVA - easyJet, Jet2,

with the exception of AMS, and GVA during peak ski season, the demand is already covered to these destinations, unless the recession is completely gone, the cost of living stabilises and more people have available cash for a nice holiday by 2012, especially as EI and EZY both offer daily flights during summer to some of these destinations, now add WW into all of them and theres potential for over capacity, not to mention the fact that some of the return times to BHD are quite closer to the curfew, or will it be broken regularly during summer without anything being said? After all if an A/C goes tech during summer, bad slots or crewing issues, you can have a delay of 15 minutes or 6 hours..

There are plenty of routes WW could have put on instead, while some of these are already served, they are not by nearly as much as the above ones, as already said above. Madrid, Nice, Murcia, Milan.. hell, for the fact many associate BHD with business travel, why not a flight to Berlin?

i wish them the best of luck with it, but i honestly believe its a poor choice of routes due to them being already served heavily in summer months, even if they fill their aircraft they need to be making a profit..

[sealink]

Very disappointing that an airline tries to expand locally and provide some competition for Easyjet (to the ultimate benefit of the consumer) and the vast majority of posts are of the doom and gloom variety.

RINTY..... I agree with you.... so much doom and gloom. Every time an airline tries to expand they are frowned upon if there is any overlap of routes. Its called competition and may the best airline win!!

[BFS101]

Every time an airline tries to expand they are frowned upon if there is any overlap of routes. Its called competition and may the best airline win!!

Competition already exists!! Between each airline, between the airlines and the tour operators, and to a certain extent with Dublin also. Competition also exists between destinations, someone looking a cheap week in the sun, will be comparing Alicante with Malaga with Malta etc, to get the cheapest deal they can in many cases.

Too much competition can be just as damaging as a monopoly, with dilution of service. Remember airlines are struggling to keep their head above water in the recession, so a price war could be damaging to both the airline, and to operations from either airport. With such tight yields and profits per passenger, how on earth will EI, EZY and WW be able to profitably reduce fares further???

Do you desire an Asda, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Lidl, Netto, M&S, Aldi, Waitrose etc all to open within the area where you live just to offer more choice. Competition should be responsible and sustainable. Responsible may be a personal opinion, sustainablility we shall all wait and see...

Will this benefit me living in South East Belfast? Not in the slightest!! Maybe those within a cheap taxi ride from BHD, but really on the grand scheme of things, will not make a button of difference to travelling public, in my opinion. But as a free market, I wish them well, but was it necessary, and will it be profitable, I'm thinking no to both.

[flying officer kite]

I dare say part of the reason Flybe havent looked at doing direct European routes is because they dont have the right aircraft for it right now. The 195s are big and used on the heavy domestic, and mainland-to-Europe routes, and as for the dash, well would you want to spend 2 or 3 hours chugging along to Frankfurt in one? Hopefully that will change with the introduction of the 175s soon. Belfast isnt really at the top of the list for one, but rumours (yes more damn rumours!) within Flybe are that they are looking carefully at the German market (some destinations in particular), something very lucrative to Belfast...

Also international flights are a bit of an ongoing issue at BHD as nothing has been purpose built for Customs and Immigration, one presumes/hopes by not starting the new WW routes for a while BHD management will get off their backsides and do something, maybe build a few extra needed stands while they're at it.

[sealink]

Its all about customer choice and if you dont like bmibaby and their offering then dont fly them. Stick with what you know. Dont try something new. If bmibaby offer a lower fare .... pay the higher fare on the competitor!!

[Rinty]

So Tigger and BFS lets see some sustained critisism of Aldergrove for offering up to 6 different airlines on one route (palma)- or do you only consider it to be unwanted, unsustainable competition when its from a different airport?

Absolute nonsense and by the way BFS most NI towns have most of the supermarkets that you list so I guess there is an argument for competition.

[mutleyshriek]

Summer 2012 is a long way off and what if the bookings dont bear fruition,especially with hold bag fees and fees to check said hold bags in.Half the routes will probably be culled before they even start...Then what...

[BFS101]

So Tigger and BFS lets see some sustained critisism of Aldergrove for offering up to 6 different airlines on one route (palma)- or do you only consider it to be unwanted, unsustainable competition when its from a different airport?

Absolutely not. Had baby launched these flights from BFS the same argument would still stand. Like when LS announced ALC from Aldergrove!! Why we need, and how we can support, at least 16 weekly flights to Palma from BFS in July is beyond me, similar with Alicante and Malaga and Faro, in Portugal; yet not a weekly flight to Naples or Corfu, Venice or Paphos. The tour operator flights are slightly different as they can offer specific packages associated with each brand, eg Thomson Cruises, that say Thomas Cook couldn't offer, but with the loco's, they're all much of a muchness.

Huge capacity and competition from BFS to Spain, what happens if like me you've been to Spain and want to try somewhere new?? At least EZY are trying Malta, LS with their niche destinations and to their credit EI had a bash at Munich, Milan and Budapest. Now demand obviously wasn't there for those destinations, but a summer weekly Naples with TOM, or a weekly Zakynthos with TCX. Prague maybe, bring Berlin back. Oh no...

Not only would that be competition, but would open new markets, add convenience to the NI traveller, and if it was operated by EZY, LS, or WW would even have the possibility of some inbound tourists too. But no, lets all pack are bags for the Costa's, and those with an ounce of imagination still have to fly via the mainland, or from Dublin.

This was not a BFS / BHD issue. It was to try and create demand and offer flights to somewhere other than the Iberian peninsula and Spanish Islands.

[LGS6753]

The reason for the large number of flights to Spain is that's where people have bought second homes. So they return to the same place time and time again. Starting a new route to say Naples would not attract any home-owners because very few people have bought homes in Italy.

[belfastmark]

With regards to the new time table for the BHD flights, are there not going to be 3 based aircraft? Doesnt seem enough route to make full use off 3 aircraft? Maybe more routes to be announced???

[Cazza_fly]

With regards to the new time table for the BHD flights, are there not going to be 3 based aircraft? Doesnt seem enough route to make full use off 3 aircraft? Maybe more routes to be announced???

It's just two based units, though various news releases put a spin on things with the way it was worded making it look like there would be 3 based units.

I think it will look along the lines of;

BHD = x 2
BHX = x 4 (possibly 5 @ various times sharing with EMA?)
EMA = x 8 (possibly 7 @ various times sharing with BHX?)
Total = 14

[mutleyshriek]

Routes will most likely be axed than announced.Very bad move.WW has nowhere to go after this move and LH will not throw money down the pan.
Desperation on Baby and Bhds behalf.Brian is scrapping the bottom of the barrel now.......

[INKJET]

Mutleyshierk

What are you on about?

You are clearly no fan of baby or bmi? so why are you so worked up!

This is no act of desperation on baby's part CWL & MAN weren't working BHD might or might not work, there is no repeat no negatives for baby's most important assets ie it's customers, they have very nearly 7 months notice of it's plans, no ones holiday plans have being ruined no one has booked a hotel or car park to find that their flight has been trashed.

I would not be surprised to see what ever baby becomes in a few years back at MAN, it's a non event if you had even half a clue what is in play behind closed doors then you might just might be in a position to comment, all I will say is watch this space!!