BELFAST (BHD) - 3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belfast, UK
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Hold-up for runway extension probe...
Hold-up for runway extension probe - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Hold-up for runway extension probe - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Belfast
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The planning service site has no detail about the new hearing timescale. Do we know how much longer this latest delay request will add to the whole process.
Still feel that the planned baby operation to Europe weakens the airports argument that an extension is nededed for anything other than Ryanair.
Still feel that the planned baby operation to Europe weakens the airports argument that an extension is nededed for anything other than Ryanair.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
Age: 63
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eastern - your barely disguised contempt for anything to do with BHD is not a good trait. I assume you are a NATS employee and therefore a contractor to whichever airfield requires ATCOs? Your loyalty to BFS is touching but you would do well to remember you do not have to defend BFS policies and you really dont have to be so anti BHD.
Surely the more aircraft in the TMA the better?
BMI Baby may well cancel or reroute flights from time to time, they may well have dodgy reviews by disgruntled pax, I am sure all airlines have similar horror stories from time to time.
Surely the more aircraft in the TMA the better?
BMI Baby may well cancel or reroute flights from time to time, they may well have dodgy reviews by disgruntled pax, I am sure all airlines have similar horror stories from time to time.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
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you really dont have to be so anti BHD.
I may be as pro or as anti whatsoever I choose.
Assume all you wish.
My opinions are my own and have nothing whatsoever to do with any perceived employment.
I have long suggested that we have an anti aviation policy in this small corner of the world.
Where.....in Europe..... is there any city of comparable size which has two competing airports TWELVE miles apart?
With an indigenous population of 1-1.5 million and a mainly rural/public sector based economy there simply is no need for both.
It is not good for the country...it is ULTIMATELY not good for the travelling public and it sure as hell ain't good for the environment.
Ards_boy...disagree entirely.
Join Date: May 2011
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Big difference is - what purpose of travel. Belfast International is the Gatwick or Luton of Belfast. Belfast City is the London City of Belfast. It depends on your travel purpose. Taxi from Belfast International to the city centre is easily £30-£50 in peak traffic, given it's 19 miles away. All depends on purpose of travel.
Just a minor correction there Eastern. NI's population as of 2009 mid-year NISRA estimate (http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demo...eport_2009.pdf) is 1,788,900. An extra 288,900 to 788,900 pax there for you.
Until BFS becomes EASILY accessible to all of the nearly 1.8 million inhabitants of NI, BHD will still have its place.
Until BFS becomes EASILY accessible to all of the nearly 1.8 million inhabitants of NI, BHD will still have its place.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern ireland
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BHD-BFS
Lets get the facts right - BFS and BHD are NOT 12 miles apart and neither is BFS 19 Miles from the city. AA Journeyfinder says that the city centre to Aldergroce is 16.4 miles and BHD is a further 3 miles
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Larne, UK
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Big difference is - what purpose of travel. Belfast International is the Gatwick or Luton of Belfast. Belfast City is the London City of Belfast. It depends on your travel purpose. Taxi from Belfast International to the city centre is easily £30-£50 in peak traffic, given it's 19 miles away. All depends on purpose of travel.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dublin
Age: 34
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Where.....in Europe..... is there any city of comparable size which has two competing airports TWELVE miles apart?
I believe both BHD and BFS both serve their purposes and LDY has a lot of potential in the future.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Greater Aldergrove
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Have to agree with Eastern Wiseguy...there is no justification for having two airports for Belfast. The fact that we do may work for some people, but we're losing out on the critical mass of passengers that a single airport would bring.
The Assembly needs to set out a clear transport policy, to include air travel, and clearly state where it sees development potential. As for 'competition', this should be provided by the airlines not the airports. A single airport can always be regulated (just like other national infrastructure assets) to ensure adequate investment and return.
Also, I'd like to know what the business case is for a runway extension at BHD...I'm not in the construction business, but I'm guessing 500m of runway must be an investment well into 8 figures, if not more. Where is the return on this going to come from?
I like both airports personally...BFS is closer, so I use it more, but I have no preference. However, the infrastructure already exists at BFS, so why spend money to duplicate? Would we not be better spending that money to make BFS a world class gateway to NI?
One final point...it looks like we may get local control over corporation tax. Can we argue for the same control over APD? The justification on corporation tax is that the RoI has a much lower rate, and we are less well placed as a result. Does APD not fall into exactly the same boat?
The Assembly needs to set out a clear transport policy, to include air travel, and clearly state where it sees development potential. As for 'competition', this should be provided by the airlines not the airports. A single airport can always be regulated (just like other national infrastructure assets) to ensure adequate investment and return.
Also, I'd like to know what the business case is for a runway extension at BHD...I'm not in the construction business, but I'm guessing 500m of runway must be an investment well into 8 figures, if not more. Where is the return on this going to come from?
I like both airports personally...BFS is closer, so I use it more, but I have no preference. However, the infrastructure already exists at BFS, so why spend money to duplicate? Would we not be better spending that money to make BFS a world class gateway to NI?
One final point...it looks like we may get local control over corporation tax. Can we argue for the same control over APD? The justification on corporation tax is that the RoI has a much lower rate, and we are less well placed as a result. Does APD not fall into exactly the same boat?
Join Date: Aug 2010
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I would argue that theirs more potential at BHD. It already has dual carriageway access, a modern new terminal, a large population within 20 miles of the airport. And a railway line which runs really close to it that could easily have a railway station built at.
The only thing that BHD doesn't have is a large runway. But that could be sorted easily and more cheaply than rerouting railway track at BFS, building a dual carriage way road to BFS from Antrim and Belfast and building a new terminal. That would easily cost more than 8 figures.
The only thing that BHD doesn't have is a large runway. But that could be sorted easily and more cheaply than rerouting railway track at BFS, building a dual carriage way road to BFS from Antrim and Belfast and building a new terminal. That would easily cost more than 8 figures.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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My understanding of the planning application is that the nett effect would be to shift the runway further out into the harbour and that the nett increase in runway length would be less than the extension.
The big plus for people living under the climb out would be less noise, in effect it moves the runway further North East, also in most cases more use could be made of reduced thrust T/0 performance, again to the benefit of local peep's
737 full of people and fuel going to the Med will certainly be heard!!
It will become very difficult to build a business case for this extension if it can shown that Jurassic 737 can operate down to FAO with out restriction,which i guess what WW wants.
Given its approaching 6 months since WW started out of BHD what is the local feed back on noise and local traffic issues?
The big plus for people living under the climb out would be less noise, in effect it moves the runway further North East, also in most cases more use could be made of reduced thrust T/0 performance, again to the benefit of local peep's
737 full of people and fuel going to the Med will certainly be heard!!
It will become very difficult to build a business case for this extension if it can shown that Jurassic 737 can operate down to FAO with out restriction,which i guess what WW wants.
Given its approaching 6 months since WW started out of BHD what is the local feed back on noise and local traffic issues?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Greater Aldergrove
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Northern Counties,
BHD is missing more than just a runway extension. What about the freight facilities that would be needed if it were to usurp BFS? What about 24/7 operation? What about true all weather capability? Cross runway? Also, bear in mind that airports foster enterprise zones...BFS has spare land that BHD does not.
Yes, it will cost money to create the links to BFS. But if we were to focus on one single airport, it can only be BFS.
BHD is missing more than just a runway extension. What about the freight facilities that would be needed if it were to usurp BFS? What about 24/7 operation? What about true all weather capability? Cross runway? Also, bear in mind that airports foster enterprise zones...BFS has spare land that BHD does not.
Yes, it will cost money to create the links to BFS. But if we were to focus on one single airport, it can only be BFS.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
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eastern - again your reply strikes me as being arrogant and somewhat dismissive of opinions other than that which you deem to be acceptable. My point was simply this, as a contractor to NATS (which I assume you are going by other posts) surely it is irrelevant to you where you work and what decisions are made by politicians and planners.
Your concern for the environment is again touching, does this explain why departing aircraft from BHD are routinely levelled at 3000 feet when there is no conflicting traffic within the TMA?
NWSRG - the last rumours I heard, which I have no reason to disbelieve were that BFS management are considering closing at night due to the lack of traffic. I understand the police and military can operate anyway as they do so in the UK mainland. RW17/35 was also rumoured to be withdrawn due costs. I have also heard rumours that BHD is replacing their ILS on RW22 with CAT3 compatible kit and a glidepath is being installed for RW04.
I have been reading Pprune for some time regarding the arguements for both or one airport and dont pretend to be an expert on critical mass of pax etc, but I do know that it is unrealistic to expect one airport to close in order to facilitate another to make profit whilst they are both owned by private companies. Could you imagine Tesco closing stores in order to help Sainsburys because Sainsburys were struggling to make a profit?
Your concern for the environment is again touching, does this explain why departing aircraft from BHD are routinely levelled at 3000 feet when there is no conflicting traffic within the TMA?
NWSRG - the last rumours I heard, which I have no reason to disbelieve were that BFS management are considering closing at night due to the lack of traffic. I understand the police and military can operate anyway as they do so in the UK mainland. RW17/35 was also rumoured to be withdrawn due costs. I have also heard rumours that BHD is replacing their ILS on RW22 with CAT3 compatible kit and a glidepath is being installed for RW04.
I have been reading Pprune for some time regarding the arguements for both or one airport and dont pretend to be an expert on critical mass of pax etc, but I do know that it is unrealistic to expect one airport to close in order to facilitate another to make profit whilst they are both owned by private companies. Could you imagine Tesco closing stores in order to help Sainsburys because Sainsburys were struggling to make a profit?
Join Date: Aug 2001
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PanPan,
Of course we don't expect one or other to yield. But one airport ought to be indentified as our primary gateway, by our masters in Stormont. Then development could focus our resources properly.
As for BFS looking at reduced hours, or closing runways, that may well be. But they do have the infrastructure in place now. So as I said, if we were to progress towards choosing a single gateway, it has to be BFS.
Of course, that relies on a coherent policy emerging from government...
Of course we don't expect one or other to yield. But one airport ought to be indentified as our primary gateway, by our masters in Stormont. Then development could focus our resources properly.
As for BFS looking at reduced hours, or closing runways, that may well be. But they do have the infrastructure in place now. So as I said, if we were to progress towards choosing a single gateway, it has to be BFS.
Of course, that relies on a coherent policy emerging from government...
Join Date: Aug 2002
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eastern - again your reply strikes me as being arrogant and somewhat dismissive of opinions other than that which you deem to be acceptable. My point was simply this, as a contractor to NATS (which I assume you are going by other posts) surely it is irrelevant to you where you work and what decisions are made by politicians and planners.
Your concern for the environment is again touching, does this explain why departing aircraft from BHD are routinely levelled at 3000 feet when there is no conflicting traffic within the TMA?
Your concern for the environment is again touching, does this explain why departing aircraft from BHD are routinely levelled at 3000 feet when there is no conflicting traffic within the TMA?
Frankly I don't care if you find my opinion contrary to your own. That's the benefit of living in a democracy.
I find your tone patronising , and with respect to the environment I suggest that is one of the largest hurdles you will have to cross in order to appeal the the people of east Belfast and North Down.
Join Date: May 2011
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NWSRG - perhaps I am naive in the workings of aviation in respect to planning but I always thought both airports are run as commercial enterprises, the suggestion that one should be discriminated against by the local government body in order to make the other more successful is a hard concept to understand.
eastern - to take a line from your own posts, you can take my tone whichever way you choose, I have obviously hit a raw nerve. One of the main benefits to living in a democracy is competition, something that you and your ilk appear determined should be stifled.
Unfortunately my expertise is not in ATC procedures, I was simply raising reports I have heard from other aviation professionals that departures from BHD are artificially stopped at a low level when there is capacity to allow for a continuous climb (environmentally friendly), I appreciate that this would not always be possible.
eastern - to take a line from your own posts, you can take my tone whichever way you choose, I have obviously hit a raw nerve. One of the main benefits to living in a democracy is competition, something that you and your ilk appear determined should be stifled.
Unfortunately my expertise is not in ATC procedures, I was simply raising reports I have heard from other aviation professionals that departures from BHD are artificially stopped at a low level when there is capacity to allow for a continuous climb (environmentally friendly), I appreciate that this would not always be possible.
Join Date: May 2007
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I think that BHD is a great facility and use it often, I'm certainly not anti BHD but I am pro one Belfast airport, however...
Should the Government not formulate an appropriate aviation policy for Northern Ireland, how will the airports be used to their full potential and work for the good of NI plc. BHD is restricted in a number of areas, and some ultimately prohibit the use of certain aircraft. So should Air Canada, Emirates (humour me) another US carrier etc wish to launch NI flights, that cannot utilise BHD, AND BFS has been starved of investment, the ultimate result will be that NI will loose out. So its not BHD fighting BFS, but what will benefit NI, and should the Government become involved, and that they can justify their priority of one airport over another is in the interest of business, investment and hopefully increased wealth for the whole region, then so be it.
To attract new carriers, especially those wanting late night arrivals, use widebody aircraft or plan to carry a substancial amount of cargo, BFS needs excellent access, needs terminal investment and needs prioritised to an extent. Not to be able to give the fingers to BHD, but to act as a catalyst for investment. BHD cannot be the exceptional Belfast airport for domestic and near European flights, and then we all still expect (or hope) for international airlines to start operations from Aldergrove. We can't have it every way, and I'd rather see the potential of sustainable long haul from NI in the future, rather than worrying about an extra 20 minutes in the car.
Should the Government not formulate an appropriate aviation policy for Northern Ireland, how will the airports be used to their full potential and work for the good of NI plc. BHD is restricted in a number of areas, and some ultimately prohibit the use of certain aircraft. So should Air Canada, Emirates (humour me) another US carrier etc wish to launch NI flights, that cannot utilise BHD, AND BFS has been starved of investment, the ultimate result will be that NI will loose out. So its not BHD fighting BFS, but what will benefit NI, and should the Government become involved, and that they can justify their priority of one airport over another is in the interest of business, investment and hopefully increased wealth for the whole region, then so be it.
To attract new carriers, especially those wanting late night arrivals, use widebody aircraft or plan to carry a substancial amount of cargo, BFS needs excellent access, needs terminal investment and needs prioritised to an extent. Not to be able to give the fingers to BHD, but to act as a catalyst for investment. BHD cannot be the exceptional Belfast airport for domestic and near European flights, and then we all still expect (or hope) for international airlines to start operations from Aldergrove. We can't have it every way, and I'd rather see the potential of sustainable long haul from NI in the future, rather than worrying about an extra 20 minutes in the car.