BELFAST (BHD) - 3

[tigger2k8]

its going to be anyones guess to what EI will do, they've dropped AMS, but AGP is going to run throughout winter... should be interesting, might even see some routes operated by non-base a/c

[BFS101]

Pity Northern Ireland travellers wouldn't be a bit more adventurous with their choice of destinations. Would be excellent to see a weekly EI Agadir winter service, similar to that operated out of Dublin.

On a different note, TCX have usually had one based unit at BFS to operate their winter flights, rarely if ever using third party flying through the winter. On the Direct Holidays website showing Thursday departure to Sharm El Sheikh (24 Dec, through to end of April 10) 09.00 from BFS back at 22.15, however also showing for same dates is Arrecife departure 10.40 from BFS back at 20.35. Are any of these flights operating from another airport via BFS, can't see 2 based aircraft for a Thursday?? Both scheduled to be operated by TCX.

[Keyvon]

EI is to scrap Milan/Malpensa eff. from 21st Sept., due to poor results on this route.

[cougafer]

Also, Paris is down to 4/week from 22 sep - 24 oct, and not bookable after that, nor are a few other destinations - does anyone know if all the winter 09/10 flights are on sale yet, or are there going to be quite a few changes?

[belfastmark]

lets hope there are some big changes! nice new routes, that we can all take advantage of! heres wishing!

[tigger2k8]

will be quite a few changes to the EI schedule for winter 09.. dont know if this will be new routes, or frequencies.. will have to wait until they know themselves

as far as im aware... EZY is basically cloning winter 08 for 09 providing seats sell, but tbh despite all the doom and gloom, EZY did resonably well during winter 08

[cougafer]

Would be good to see new routes from BFS like MAD, etc. but i'd be sad to see Paris go, if this turns out to be the case.
Only the future will tell, i guess!

[EI-BUD]

EI Operations at Belfast

It is very disappointing to see that Aer Lingus are culling more routes we have lost Aer Lingus service on Nice, Geneva, Budapest, soon to be Milan as reports suggest and maybe Paris.

Dermot Mannion announced the base and he stood by it, outside of the Lanzarote route it would seem that loads and yields are appauling. With Dermot Mannion out of the picture I am not so sure that the Belfast base will survive long.

While LHR might generate reasonable numbers, alot is at low fares, the loads are not exceptional of late, the 3 daily slots could probably be more productive on other services?

I for one am hoping that Aer Lingus are here for the long haul, excuse the pun....

EI-BUD

[BFS101]

There are some routes, the thinner ones, that I think are better served by one carrier. So long as prices are reasonable, and service adequate, and I think that AMS and CDG would be examples of this. EZY provide a pretty reasonable service, and with one successful carrier on the route, there's less chance of cancelling days here and there, or fiddling with the schedule. Thats why I think it'd be a potentially bad move for BFS if EI offered JFK, all it may do is replace one carrier with another. BOS or MCO or YYZ would be good, but to New York I think continental does just fine, and excellent onward connections.

EI to Madrid would be an excellent choice I think, as would weekly Agadir in the winter (can always dream). Any demend for a Scandinivian destinations do you think, Copenhagan?? Had EI rumoured Fuerteventura at one time from BFS??

I guess that with the small population base of Northern Ireland, and the limited numbers that use BFS from the Republic of Ireland, there's just not enough demand for the amount of seats on offer to some destinations. Think still more could be done to reduce Northern Ireland residents being attracted to fly from DUB to destinations offered by BFS.

I too hope EI are here for long haul, (just not NYC, lol)

[EI-BUD]

BFS101
I think alot of what you say is true, however I dont think that Madrid would work too well. Firstly if we take Rome as a comparison. It didnt work for Easyjet and they axed the route. Easyjet flew that route in much better times and so i would struggle to believe that Madrid would work when Rome was questionable. While Aer Lingus may be doing Rome now , I still think that Madrid would suffer the same fate as it did ex Cork and ex Shannon with Ryanair.

If it was say 3 years ago when it was peak times in the economy it might be different.

Easyjet have great experience across most of Europe and they serve the bigger markets that are in demand. With a 172 seater aircraft it is hard to see what totally new markets would work.

If Aer Lingus cannot open a route to a big market (or established Market eg Paris, Amsterdam) and stay on there, show that they have staying power and make it work they should forget about it. The message to Easyjet is clear from Aer Lingus, we will compete with you and lose lots of money and then we will withdraw from the market. And then with that in mind Aer Lingus launch flight ex LGW up against easyjet.

I am a big fan of Aer Lingus and think the airline is excellent, but from where I am standing i dont see a strategy and the whole things is almost unrecognisable from day 1 when it opened few things have remained consistent, except for LHR, which has been reduced to 3 a day....

Ei-bud

[tigger2k8]

im a big fan of EI aswell... and i hope they stay which i think they will, as they do perform well during holiday season (easter, summer months, halloween, xmas...) they did take a hammering compared to EZY during winter with as little as 12 flying BFS-LHR one day...

theres a big market for EI to tap into, they should look at the transfers they have from LHR and see the most popular routes and if its worth launching a service, even if its BFS-SNN-XXX, but i have a feeling they will just watch the opportunity float by

[True Blue]

There has been a lot said on here about NI travellers not being ambitious enough and I agree with that. The airlines too need to put their thinking cap on. Let me give you two examples.

Sofia.

We have skied for the last two winters in Bansko. I have been amazed at the number of people out there from NI. We travelled via Gatwick, 12 of us, but I met a lady who was in a party of 50. Others flew via Dublin. Would that not be a good route for the likes of Jet2, smaller plane, for a series of flights from late December to end March/early April? A large number of people from here own property out there.

Turkey - Dalaman and Bodrum.

I realise that there might be route licence issues to be sorted out here.

Last year there were about 5/6 flights a week to Dalaman. Goldtrail, using Onurair, flew most of the season twice a week with A300s.

I have a personal interest in flights to Bodrum, as we have an apartment in Altinkum. Last year, 5 flights a week, again some with A300s. This year, we and others are flying Easy to Gatwick then BA to Izmir, four times. It's cheaper than flying direct and better times.

Would EI not be better looking at these opportunities, say 2 per week to each destination? This year, you cannot get to Bodrum before the beginning of May. Again, lots of people from here own property out there.

I am sure there are others, like Cyprus, for example. Maybe Bfs and the airlines need to think outside the box instead of all heading for Malaga. I also think that Bfs need to protect airlines, what is the sense in letting multiple airlines fly thin routes, look what happened to Pargue.

What do others think?

True Blue

[gate 22]

Also Western France either Bordeaux or La Rochelle. The number of folk you play golf and camp in this region from NI is quite high. I can't help but think that to operate these kind of flights from Belfast may hit their Dublin flights.
With FR constrainted at BHD could BFS not lure them up, with an agreement of operating new destinations only. FR would beable to get 2 or 3 aircraft fully utilised. Girona would not really be in competition with Barcelona. Brussels/Beauvais/Hahn/ etc could all be operated. MOL would probably jump at the opportunity, moving in beside EI and making it a total success. Even if he keeps one jet down at BHD to operate domestics. Everybody would be happy. All international destinations operate out of one Belfast airport, which means NI folk can mix and match to anywhere in Europe, with no carparking problems on arrival back home.

[tigger2k8]

noticed the farrans compound is no more, and a new contractor (russell simpson i think) has set-up camp are we finally going to see the master plan kick in?

[BFS101]

True Blue,
Totally agree with you in regard to the ambitions of the average Northern Ireland traveller. Why go somewhere new, exciting and maybe slightly exotic, when you can have two weeks in Bally Ponsa or Tenerife!!!! Look at the possible capacity to Tenerife and Lanzarote next winter, if EI keep x3 week to ACE, huge market, yet only now getting Egypt (be actually interesting to see if that is a success). Think the airlines, tour operators and travel agents (as they recommend certain destinations to the ignorant public) need to be a bit more imaginative.

Very much agree also with protecting certain routes, to avoid over capacity, but in a free market economy how can that really work, and what sort of criteria or threshold would you use?? Thats why as much as I like Aer Lingus, on routes like AMS, CDG and BCN i'd prefer to support EZY, rather than EI as they seemed to just jump on the back of what appeared to be a successful route. Also disgust at EZY knocking Jet2.com off PRG and BCN when it was Jet2.com who had the ambition to start such services. But guess thats the free economy we live in.

Thats really why I see absolutely no benefit of Ryanair expanding in Belfast, or getting the runway extenstion at BHD. If they were to offer new routes and increase the destination portfolio from NI, all well and good, but to knock EI off Rome, and knock a carrier off BCN so they can serve Girona, really whats the point. I'd say the majority of people travelling to Girona, would be destined for Barcelona and just tight to pay the difference to fly into BCN, so would that really benefit Belfast, again the same regarding Beauvais?? If EI and EZY can't make Paris work, why intriduce FR into the equation? Don't think FR would split operation between both BFS/BHD, as to operate from one, would achieve economies of scale especially as both airports are so close.

FlyBE would be ideal airline to offer La Rochelle and/or Bordeaux similar to the service they provide to Rennes.

[Rinty]

BFS 101 - the benefit of Ryanair flying to European destinations is one of choice for the customer. Because an airline starts a route doesnt make it automatically theirs. If you follow your reasoning then EI had no right to start their Heathrow and eat into Midlands market.
Aside from any of that is the fact that Ryanair may well offer the 'different' destinations that have been discussed. One other point is that Ryanair market heavily across Europe and in my opinion have the potential to bring in more foreign tourists than Easy or Jet2.
Sounds like I am an FR fan - not particularly having been stung for extras like everybody else - but feel that in a 'free' economy all companies have right to compete on equal terms. This also applies to airports! - hope I havnt upset all of the 'We love Aldergrove' club.

[EI-BUD]

There have been some interesting posts on the subject of new routes/new opportunities and I am convinced that the size of aircraft that are in place with Aer Lingus and Easyjet dont always lend themselves to new markets unless sunshine routes for peak season. But what about Flybe or Loganair looking at a few near continental european routes?

What about a daily Saab/Dash on Brussels? A daily Dash on Frankfurt?
What about a mon-fri Dusseldorf rotation on Saab?


If and when Ryanair lauch BHD to continental europe from the city airport no doubt they will jump onto Alicante, Girona, Malaga, Beauvais and Rome.

Aer Lingus' position will be most challenged rather than easyjet. The easyjet brand is very strong here and level of business on Stansted Belfast International is testimony to the brand. They match and exceed Ryanair's city numbers many months!

[gate 22]

If and when Ryanair lauch BHD to continental europe from the city airport no doubt they will jump onto Alicante, Girona, Malaga, Beauvais and Rome.

Why can nobody answer the point that for FR to introduce these routes from BHD, if the runway extension was to happen, they physicaly cannot as BHD is at maximum capacity under the current planning agreement.

[EI-BUD]

gate 22, When MOL agreed to Launch flights from BHD he had been promised that the runway would be extended and he has said this publicly that the runway 'will be extended'. Rest assured that the issue of number of flights per year is a red herring and this too in time will be 'adjusted'.
Sammy Wilson has avoided meeting the locals near the city airport and he has the final say and that says to me that he is planning to grant the extention. Commerical reasons will dictate.

But it is a good question that you ask. Me thinks that this has all been mapped out and planned and is only a matter of time before the increases come and the planning agreement is altered. I read that last year the numbers (limits) were far exceeded.

[gate 22]

Sammy Wilson has avoided meeting the locals near the city airport and he has the final say and that says to me that he is planning to grant the extention. Commerical reasons will dictate.

Sammy is being professional, he is not interferring in the planning process, as head of department. Within a short while the planning service will drop their descision on his desk. This decision will be based on the planning services process-non political. They have 3 options-1. refusal, 2. approval, 3. public inquiry. He will then make a descision as whether their view is correct 'politically', at this point he will become very vocal. If any deal has been done whereby MOL/BHD has made an agreement with the planning department and this were to come to light, there would be resignations within the planning service, at the top. I can assure you that MOL has no advantage as to knowing what the outcome is, over you or me. Sammy has overturned planning decisions in the recent past. Planners turned down the Aurora Tower, Gt Victoria St, Sammy sent it back for review. With the political will and residents against, I definately would not say that it's a foregone conclusion that the extension will be granted. However we will have to wait and see.