BELFAST (BHD) - 3
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Commerical reasons will dictate.
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With a lot of political effort having gone into attracting EI here, would there be concern that expansion at bhd by Fr onto the routes that seem to be a success for EI, might spell the end of the EI project here?
Will protecting EI be a consideration and not letting Fr run riot?
True Blue
Will protecting EI be a consideration and not letting Fr run riot?
True Blue
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Will protecting EI be a consideration and not letting Fr run riot?
That is not within the planning authority remit.
The government which stated that all future expansion should be at BFS is the one to ask that question of.
I suspect that they will simply say that they will not interfere in the commercial operations of airlines.
German army C130-k (i think?) parked up at stand 25/26... servisair have bags standing by to be loaded..
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Gate 22 - full marks for what I believe is an accurate assessment of the planning situation. Sammy wont make any comment until he gets the planners recommendation and makes his own decision.
Regarding the opportunity for growth at BHD - last year there were approx 43,000 ATMS from Belfast which leaves a surplus of 5000 ATM's for future growth. The seats for sale limit was breached by 4% but this is against a backdrop of 4 years of planning service procrastination regarding the review of the planning agreement. Its a ridiculous limit anyway. The residents of east Belfast are concerned about the number of flights and not whether the A/C are full or empty. As i undertand the seats for sale are back within compliance already.
For EI-BUd to suggest that MOL was promised an extension already is nonsense and shows no appreciation of the operations of planning service.
I have no doubt that at some stage in the future BHD would want to try to get more ATM's but that should not be confused with the current application which is just a physical measure to assist A/C that dont perform as well as some others. As Brian Ambrose keeps saying why should the residents of Belfast care if the A/C flying over is going to Aberdeen or Alicante.
Regarding the opportunity for growth at BHD - last year there were approx 43,000 ATMS from Belfast which leaves a surplus of 5000 ATM's for future growth. The seats for sale limit was breached by 4% but this is against a backdrop of 4 years of planning service procrastination regarding the review of the planning agreement. Its a ridiculous limit anyway. The residents of east Belfast are concerned about the number of flights and not whether the A/C are full or empty. As i undertand the seats for sale are back within compliance already.
For EI-BUd to suggest that MOL was promised an extension already is nonsense and shows no appreciation of the operations of planning service.
I have no doubt that at some stage in the future BHD would want to try to get more ATM's but that should not be confused with the current application which is just a physical measure to assist A/C that dont perform as well as some others. As Brian Ambrose keeps saying why should the residents of Belfast care if the A/C flying over is going to Aberdeen or Alicante.
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Thank you Rinty for a common sense assessment of the current situation. The "seats for sale" limit has always been and still is a nonsense. To draw a parallel, imagine a Tescos and Sainsburys in the same area and one being told they can only admit a certain number of customers each day because the other doesn't like the competition. A similar situation exists between BHD and BFS and this artificial restriction should be removed.
The ATM limit is a much more practical and sensible way to monitor traffic levels and should remain in place and be reviewed periodically.
The ATM limit is a much more practical and sensible way to monitor traffic levels and should remain in place and be reviewed periodically.
Thread Starter
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The seats for sale was breached last year. However this has been sorted out in that a monitoring system is now enforce which corrects the situation before it happens. If it happens again the planners will take action. A reduction in flights due to the credit crunch has worked well in favour of BHD.
The residents and planners are not stupid regarding the position of the airport and that's why there is a restriction on the number of passengers. 48,000 x 140 = 5.76million passengers (if say aircraft types were utilised). This is not only a way to ensure that every aircraft taking off or landing is not a 737, but also to ensure the roads approaching the airport are not congested. Sammy has suggested that the balance has now been achieved with the present agreement.
The current runway length and the current planning agreement will always ensure the right balance.
The residents and planners are not stupid regarding the position of the airport and that's why there is a restriction on the number of passengers. 48,000 x 140 = 5.76million passengers (if say aircraft types were utilised). This is not only a way to ensure that every aircraft taking off or landing is not a 737, but also to ensure the roads approaching the airport are not congested. Sammy has suggested that the balance has now been achieved with the present agreement.
The current runway length and the current planning agreement will always ensure the right balance.
Join Date: May 2007
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Rinty,
I understand that in free market economy, with competition, any airline can challenge another on a route. My point is if a route can only sustain one operator, for example Rome, I really see no point with EI already operating a reasonable service, FR to entering the market and EI withdrawing still leaving only one operator. Really would that make us better off. On the larger markets where multiple airlines can compete, like London, then the extra choice is both welcome AND sustainable generally.
If FR were to offer something new, sure, good for NI, but not, yet more capacity to already well served markets, or to simply knock another operator of a route. As I stated thats the free market we operate in, but realistically what great benefit would that bring to us. Choice in the short term with unsustainable fares, one airline will withdraw, and we'll be back to original one carrier. If I want to get to Rome, Barcelona etc etc, I already can at a reasonable price, why bring in competition when it probably wont be sustainable in the long term and will be left with what we started with anyway.
And regardless of my username, I'm certainly not a BFS fanclub. Would very much like to see, thinner, more business orientated routes from BHD, to the likes of Brussels, maybe Germany and even Scandinavia. And like I said regarding EZY, thought it was pretty pants of them knocked LS off PRG and BCN, when LS had the gumption to initiate the services.
I understand that in free market economy, with competition, any airline can challenge another on a route. My point is if a route can only sustain one operator, for example Rome, I really see no point with EI already operating a reasonable service, FR to entering the market and EI withdrawing still leaving only one operator. Really would that make us better off. On the larger markets where multiple airlines can compete, like London, then the extra choice is both welcome AND sustainable generally.
If FR were to offer something new, sure, good for NI, but not, yet more capacity to already well served markets, or to simply knock another operator of a route. As I stated thats the free market we operate in, but realistically what great benefit would that bring to us. Choice in the short term with unsustainable fares, one airline will withdraw, and we'll be back to original one carrier. If I want to get to Rome, Barcelona etc etc, I already can at a reasonable price, why bring in competition when it probably wont be sustainable in the long term and will be left with what we started with anyway.
And regardless of my username, I'm certainly not a BFS fanclub. Would very much like to see, thinner, more business orientated routes from BHD, to the likes of Brussels, maybe Germany and even Scandinavia. And like I said regarding EZY, thought it was pretty pants of them knocked LS off PRG and BCN, when LS had the gumption to initiate the services.
Last edited by BFS101; 11th Apr 2009 at 18:06.
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One of the main arguements for the extension of the runway at Bhd is that it will allow Fr to fly to european destinations and I think we can reasonably predict that they will be routes already served. The story then continues, that if Fr were allowed to fly those routes, then hugh numbers of additional tourists will come to NI that don't come here now. What nobody has explained is, why would they suddenly come in hugh numbers when Fr start flying, when they aren't coming now? We have had very good services to most of the destinations that Fr have said they would like to fly, why would they suddenly turn on the tourist tap? I don't believe that the Fr drawing power from say Gerona is any better than Ezy of Ei from Bcn. Or are these explanations just more garbage for us to consume?
True Blue
True Blue
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True blue, if FR start these routes, they are in different geographical locations (although minimal at times) bring more people in and also the perception of being cheap on time and reliable.
Easy run high fares in and out of BFS! Why aren't they already coming in with sleasyjet? They charge more than loan sharks so you can look at a wee doll that looks like a lobster because she does twenty minutes under the sunbed!
Easy run high fares in and out of BFS! Why aren't they already coming in with sleasyjet? They charge more than loan sharks so you can look at a wee doll that looks like a lobster because she does twenty minutes under the sunbed!
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Right im responding to the previous post regarding that if there was any more international tourists inbound to Norn Iron, why they aren't already flying with easyjet.
Now because I haven't said a bad word about Ryanair, who actually are a cause for good within the northern irish aviation market, and make other airlines work for their money, they get flamed.
Eastern, im going to say you are biased as you work within Lough Neagh airfield, and trying to put me and rubbishing my post which basically has a meaning that easyjet over charge and are partly to blame for inbound traffic.
Now because I haven't said a bad word about Ryanair, who actually are a cause for good within the northern irish aviation market, and make other airlines work for their money, they get flamed.
Eastern, im going to say you are biased as you work within Lough Neagh airfield, and trying to put me and rubbishing my post which basically has a meaning that easyjet over charge and are partly to blame for inbound traffic.
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Now I'm no EZY fanclub, but there have done a lot for international air services out of BFS over the past, what, maybe 4 or 5 years. Took a chance, and it paid pff. Look at the routes BFS now have and the frequencies operated. Good on Jet2 for initiating BCN and PRG from Belfast (albeit poached by EZY), CO for New York and Aer Lingus for trying Milan, Munich and Budapest. They tried to offer something new at the time, and sometimes it worked, other times not.
So what are FR going to do for us??? Not only do we have competition on major routes, Malaga, Faro and Palma etc with EZY, LS, and EI, and not forgetting the charters; but I think its almost got the stage where the destinations have to compete with each other to a certain extent also, to get holiday and short break trade. If EZY is extortionate to ALC, those that have the choice may choose AGP, FAO or NCE instead.
So yes, back to FR, what are they to bring us??? A tenner cheaper to get to Rome (if you don't have hold baggage), or a fiver cheaper to Paris (but we'll fly you into Beavais), maybe fifteen quid cheaper to Barcelona (but its actually Girona). Think I'd rather stick with what we have at the minute, decend competition, and pretty reasonable service. Fair enough EZY aren't exactly BA or Virgin, but from personal experience the crew are more professional and certainly more customer friendly focused than Ryanair.
Ryanair are a fair airline, they get you to where, sorry, close to where you want to go, generally on time and reliable, but my opinion is BFS (and Belfast as a whole) have it pretty much covered now. Maybe 5 years ago FR would have been very useful to have at Belfast, but not now, its already been done. Bring NI something new if you want to expand!!
So what are FR going to do for us??? Not only do we have competition on major routes, Malaga, Faro and Palma etc with EZY, LS, and EI, and not forgetting the charters; but I think its almost got the stage where the destinations have to compete with each other to a certain extent also, to get holiday and short break trade. If EZY is extortionate to ALC, those that have the choice may choose AGP, FAO or NCE instead.
So yes, back to FR, what are they to bring us??? A tenner cheaper to get to Rome (if you don't have hold baggage), or a fiver cheaper to Paris (but we'll fly you into Beavais), maybe fifteen quid cheaper to Barcelona (but its actually Girona). Think I'd rather stick with what we have at the minute, decend competition, and pretty reasonable service. Fair enough EZY aren't exactly BA or Virgin, but from personal experience the crew are more professional and certainly more customer friendly focused than Ryanair.
Ryanair are a fair airline, they get you to where, sorry, close to where you want to go, generally on time and reliable, but my opinion is BFS (and Belfast as a whole) have it pretty much covered now. Maybe 5 years ago FR would have been very useful to have at Belfast, but not now, its already been done. Bring NI something new if you want to expand!!
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rying to put me and rubbishing my post which basically has a meaning that easyjet over charge and are partly to blame for inbound traffic.
Wee dolls and sunbeds......gibberish.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Well, for £3.50 each way from Brizzel (and free car parking at this end, woohoo!) I made a wee trip back last week. We were 15 mins ahead of schedule (as trumpeted by the tannoy announcement on arrival
) and even picking up a rental at Georgie B International, I was off the plane and on the road to Bengor in about 5 mins. Even made it to a hostelry in Bengor for a few jars before bedtime. Marvellous.
As for being held hostage on a 450KT advertising bubble for 45 mins, well, that was just about the most unpleasant experience in my life as a passenger. You couldn't get a seconds peace on the frigging flight but there was another advert over the tannoy or a fistful of scratch cards being waved under your nose (maybe I missed the point, are they scratch'n'sniff cards?).
Good job I didn't have to use the return portion of my ticket, I'll not mourn the £3.50 I wasted.
Never again, well, 'cept for the flights I've booked to Dubbers in July.
It was handier than using Muckamore despite being a great deal more annoying.
) and even picking up a rental at Georgie B International, I was off the plane and on the road to Bengor in about 5 mins. Even made it to a hostelry in Bengor for a few jars before bedtime. Marvellous.As for being held hostage on a 450KT advertising bubble for 45 mins, well, that was just about the most unpleasant experience in my life as a passenger
. You couldn't get a seconds peace on the frigging flight but there was another advert over the tannoy or a fistful of scratch cards being waved under your nose (maybe I missed the point, are they scratch'n'sniff cards?).Good job I didn't have to use the return portion of my ticket, I'll not mourn the £3.50 I wasted.
Never again, well, 'cept for the flights I've booked to Dubbers in July.
It was handier than using Muckamore despite being a great deal more annoying.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Wasn't full and they had the first three or four rows blocked off but I'd have guessed at well over 100. I'm in work this afternoon, I'll try to find out.
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well a few events at BFS today
EI suffered a heavy landing (BCN-BFS, Reg - CVC) possibly due to mis-loading in BCN.. severly damaging nose gear, A/C was on a bad angle once on stand... apparently the back steps were lowered to the height of a 737..
bmibaby suffered damage near the rear door as aviance hit the A/C with rear steps...
and project phoenix (reconfig of terminal, airside) is to begin on the 15th April
EI suffered a heavy landing (BCN-BFS, Reg - CVC) possibly due to mis-loading in BCN.. severly damaging nose gear, A/C was on a bad angle once on stand... apparently the back steps were lowered to the height of a 737..
bmibaby suffered damage near the rear door as aviance hit the A/C with rear steps...
and project phoenix (reconfig of terminal, airside) is to begin on the 15th April