BELFAST (BHD) - 3
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Spin City
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"Regarding the other comments about the proposed runway extension.
I also would be surprised if most BD pilots would not like to see a few hundred extra meters of asphalt but publicly they have adopted an attitude of indifference."
An airline pilot will never object to more runway, but Perf A is Perf A with all the requisite safety margins in place. It's black and white, you can either depart or you can't. All I'm saying is that for the fuel and pax loads we require to operate to LHR there is no commercial gain in the extra length.
"What strikes me as strange is that Dr Spin makes a comment about the cost of the runway being passed on to the airlines - 2nd time that I have heard this in a week. Airlines and airport authorities have reasonably lengthy contracts which fixes costs so the airport couldn't just increase fees."
Granted, contracts are for typically 10 years. Come renewal time though someone has to pay for all that extra investment.
It's all about protecting profits (we don't just fly aeroplanes for the sake of it, we move people and cargo to make money)
"Also -note I am not an expert in engine performance so please correct me if appropriate -would a departing Airbus still rotate at the same point if there was an extra 600m of runway? Or would fuel be saved by utilising all available runway length i.e. slower build up of thrust - or whatever the correct terminology is."
Basically it's not about fuel saving but more about extending the service life of the engines. De-rated (or Flex) thrust is monitored and extends time between overhaul.
A light Airbus in the dry is almost certainly thrust de-rated to it's maximum of 25% anyway and would rotate at the same point. A full one would be derated to a lesser amount (say 10 - 15%) and would therefore increase this by using the extra length to achieve 25%, rotating slightly farther along.
Hope this helps.
The Dr.
I also would be surprised if most BD pilots would not like to see a few hundred extra meters of asphalt but publicly they have adopted an attitude of indifference."
An airline pilot will never object to more runway, but Perf A is Perf A with all the requisite safety margins in place. It's black and white, you can either depart or you can't. All I'm saying is that for the fuel and pax loads we require to operate to LHR there is no commercial gain in the extra length.
"What strikes me as strange is that Dr Spin makes a comment about the cost of the runway being passed on to the airlines - 2nd time that I have heard this in a week. Airlines and airport authorities have reasonably lengthy contracts which fixes costs so the airport couldn't just increase fees."
Granted, contracts are for typically 10 years. Come renewal time though someone has to pay for all that extra investment.
It's all about protecting profits (we don't just fly aeroplanes for the sake of it, we move people and cargo to make money)
"Also -note I am not an expert in engine performance so please correct me if appropriate -would a departing Airbus still rotate at the same point if there was an extra 600m of runway? Or would fuel be saved by utilising all available runway length i.e. slower build up of thrust - or whatever the correct terminology is."
Basically it's not about fuel saving but more about extending the service life of the engines. De-rated (or Flex) thrust is monitored and extends time between overhaul.
A light Airbus in the dry is almost certainly thrust de-rated to it's maximum of 25% anyway and would rotate at the same point. A full one would be derated to a lesser amount (say 10 - 15%) and would therefore increase this by using the extra length to achieve 25%, rotating slightly farther along.
Hope this helps.
The Dr.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I disagree with the comments regarding the runway not needing an extension. Basically if its a nice warm summers day (unlike todays) there are weight restrictions.
Now captains aren't going to reduce their uplifts, but reduce weight through pax or throwing off bags basically. If bd are tied in regarding landing fees then why not let the airport expand.
Who knows were bmi or GBBCA will be in a few years!
Now captains aren't going to reduce their uplifts, but reduce weight through pax or throwing off bags basically. If bd are tied in regarding landing fees then why not let the airport expand.
Who knows were bmi or GBBCA will be in a few years!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Norn Iron
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ground staff
Travelled out on the afternoon EZY to STN about 3 weeks ago and from check-in to gate I have to say that the menzies Passenger service staff at BFS on that day where a disgrace, at check-in I was harrassed as I apparantly had two pieces of hand luggage (a bag and a laptop case). I accept that there are rules to follow but the menzies guy was treating me like a school-kid who had done something wrong ( the laptop and case actually fitted into the bag), he was extremely rude and condescending! To top things off at the gate I was the last one to have my boarding card pulled, however, there where long queues on both steps so I decided to wait at the door of the lounge to make a phone as this would be the last time I was in Northern Ireland for a number of months, as I put the phone to my ear I was again TOLD OFF by a member of staff saying I could not go on the ramp with on the phone....this was fair enough if I actually had been on the ramp!!!! 
I told the staff member I was making a quick phone call and I had no intention of going onto the ramp until I was finished, to which she replied "Well it's not my fault if the plane leaves without you sir", at this point I rather unproffesionally lost the plot and was quite lucky not to be offloaded.......
Menzies BFS get it sorted ...you are treating passengers even worse to the accustomed s**t they are used too and if the airlines in Belfast who use menzies in BFS have any sense they would monitor their actions more closely.....
Rant over......
I told the staff member I was making a quick phone call and I had no intention of going onto the ramp until I was finished, to which she replied "Well it's not my fault if the plane leaves without you sir", at this point I rather unproffesionally lost the plot and was quite lucky not to be offloaded.......Menzies BFS get it sorted ...you are treating passengers even worse to the accustomed s**t they are used too and if the airlines in Belfast who use menzies in BFS have any sense they would monitor their actions more closely.....
Rant over......
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Have to say, i have sympathy for ArdsBoy...too many handling staff (particularly security) seem to think they have a right to be heavy-handed, officious and downright rude.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Ground Staff
I am a frequent taveller out of both NI airports. My preference is BHD given my geographical location more than anything.
I do however notice a stark difference in the level of custmer service between both airports.
At BFS you are spoken to like a dog at check-in, and barked at .... like a dog..... at security.
BHD is much more pleasent thus far, but people come & go dont they!!
Just my own PERSONAL observation....
Regarding 2,000 objections to a runway extension, how many of these would be objectors have bought a house beside the airport? How many have been living there all their lives?
I believe this to be an interesting stat for any argument for and against, it may also be an interesting stat for any would be planner ...........
I do however notice a stark difference in the level of custmer service between both airports.
At BFS you are spoken to like a dog at check-in, and barked at .... like a dog..... at security.
BHD is much more pleasent thus far, but people come & go dont they!!
Just my own PERSONAL observation....
Regarding 2,000 objections to a runway extension, how many of these would be objectors have bought a house beside the airport? How many have been living there all their lives?
I believe this to be an interesting stat for any argument for and against, it may also be an interesting stat for any would be planner ...........
Join Date: Nov 2006
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city airport
Bmi haven't even mentioned the runway extension. They are doing what is wise, sitting on the fence and let flybe and ryanair slug it out against each other and the airport.
I think that you will find that bmi has mentioned the runway extention, they have stated in the Belfast Telegraph and Business Eye magazine that they feel that there is not a need for an extention but they would like a later arrival from LHR and as such would not be putting any weight behind a campaign to get the runway extended.
It is facinating that since Ryanair arrived at BHD the locals are saying that 'big nosiy' aeroplanes now come in an out from 0630 in the morning. The irony is that bmi have for years being using 321s which are bigger planes in physical terms. But little mention of this. I wonder if BA was in Ryanairs shoes with a base at BHD would the locals object. I am not so sure it would be such a big deal, perhaps bearing an Irish flag is part of the story? I am sure there will be plenty of feedback about this post, but this is my view, sad as it is, I am convinced. On this note, I would also add that MOL has not helped the cause of the city airport with his initial advertising campaign for the base.
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But little mention of this. I wonder if BA was in Ryanairs shoes with a base at BHD would the locals object. I am not so sure it would be such a big deal, perhaps bearing an Irish flag is part of the story?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
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I don't believe the flag has any relevance at all. I do believe that people are fed up with the expansionist plans for ONE johnny come lately airline. The airport and east Belfast have lived happily side by side. The airport is now changing the ground rules and is attempting to become the top dog. A lot of folks see this as the thin edge of the wedge.
The overwhelming majority of housing in the area is established housing. The airport is changing the rules and people are fairly upset.
This will run and run.
The overwhelming majority of housing in the area is established housing. The airport is changing the rules and people are fairly upset.
This will run and run.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Being one of the many that live under the approach onto 04 at BHD i can see why people moan that the 738's of FR are louder. When a Dash or E190 goes overhead its no different to a bike going past outside. Granted the BD's produce a similar amount of noise as the FR's but the FR's are more frequent.
I think thats where the main problem lies. People are unhappy at the extra noise since FR coming on the scene and can see it getting worse with a runway extension.
When BHD is using 22 you hardly hear anything of the Dash and 190, just the FR's and BD's as aircraft are usually about 1000'+ before reaching us, its only when using 04 that my house gets buzzed at 500'. Do i mind.....No, but then i'm in the industry so can't really complain.
Well thats my thoughts anyhow.
I think thats where the main problem lies. People are unhappy at the extra noise since FR coming on the scene and can see it getting worse with a runway extension.
When BHD is using 22 you hardly hear anything of the Dash and 190, just the FR's and BD's as aircraft are usually about 1000'+ before reaching us, its only when using 04 that my house gets buzzed at 500'. Do i mind.....No, but then i'm in the industry so can't really complain.
Well thats my thoughts anyhow.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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ards_boy, so basically your moaning because people were carrying out their jobs? enforcing the rules... now you were on the phone at the DOOR of the gate, can you blame the staff for saying? anyone looking at you would automatically think you were about to walk out..
and you lost the plot for being told its not her fault if the plane leaves without you? my god... were you having a bad day, she was simply stating the fact the plane wont wait so that you can be on the phone until you decide to end it
all airports are the same, all pax services are the same, good job there wasnt any ramp guys inside at the time or you would have got a few nasty words back... remember most staff are under pressure to get their jobs done and in good time.. as their next flight could be on finals... go watch airline/airport for a laugh...
i dont know why people expect to be treated like infants at airports
i have travelled from both BHD and BFS on a variety of different airlines so ive had all the different companies check me in, all of which carry out their job professionaly i never thought anyone was rude... then again some people over here in N.I do have an accent that sounds bit harsh..
and you lost the plot for being told its not her fault if the plane leaves without you? my god... were you having a bad day, she was simply stating the fact the plane wont wait so that you can be on the phone until you decide to end it
all airports are the same, all pax services are the same, good job there wasnt any ramp guys inside at the time or you would have got a few nasty words back... remember most staff are under pressure to get their jobs done and in good time.. as their next flight could be on finals... go watch airline/airport for a laugh...
i dont know why people expect to be treated like infants at airports
i have travelled from both BHD and BFS on a variety of different airlines so ive had all the different companies check me in, all of which carry out their job professionaly i never thought anyone was rude... then again some people over here in N.I do have an accent that sounds bit harsh..
Join Date: May 2007
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I wonder if BA was in Ryanairs shoes with a base at BHD would the locals object. I am not so sure it would be such a big deal, perhaps bearing an Irish flag is part of the story?
As with all airports, on occasions the attitute and professionalism of staff at both airports leave a lot to be desired. Generally I find the staff pleasant and reasonably helpful, but there are the few, full of their own self-importance and like the sound of their own voice, who are just down right rude. If you can't get information across in a polite way, then you shouldn't be working in a customer orientated environment. In saying that we all have our off days.
When travelling out to Brescia from BFS on the 24th January, the staff member making the boarding announcement started to laugh just into her speach. Then over the course of about the next 5 minutes kept pushing the tannoy button "bing, bong" and then go into fits of laughter and not be able to continue, to the extent were the passengers started looking at one another and laughing. Hugely professional!!! Maybe I should've went been patronising to her, lol.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The reason that I was getting so annoyed tiger and LTNman was that I myself worked as ground staff .....I like to think that I treated passengers as if they where above the age of 5 and had at least a few brain cells (hard to do at times with some BFS passengers 
) because at the end of the day they are customers, they pay my wages. As I mentioned in my post I was not in the process of walking out the door I was standing beside it, not walking out of it. However, I do agree that rules are rules and that it is groundstaff members job to inform passengers that they have broken a rule, I've done it myself manys a time (usually chavs trying to smoke on the ramp lol! What I was complaining about was the manner in which the staff where doing so! 
With regards to informing me the a/c would leave without me, there was two long queues on each set of steps and it was STD -35, I was planning a 30 second phone call, not a hour long catch up with an old friend
and I know perfecly well what ramp guys are capable off
Perhaps you guys are right maybe I was partly to blame as I may have been in a bad mood, because I was put in a bad mood at check-in and BFS security generally isn't a pleasant experience either!! I make no excuses for my performance, I do try to be a 'well behaved passenger'and I usually find travelling through BFS pleasant enough, but the ground staff certainly didn't make it very easy on this occasion!
) because at the end of the day they are customers, they pay my wages. As I mentioned in my post I was not in the process of walking out the door I was standing beside it, not walking out of it. However, I do agree that rules are rules and that it is groundstaff members job to inform passengers that they have broken a rule, I've done it myself manys a time (usually chavs trying to smoke on the ramp lol! What I was complaining about was the manner in which the staff where doing so! With regards to informing me the a/c would leave without me, there was two long queues on each set of steps and it was STD -35, I was planning a 30 second phone call, not a hour long catch up with an old friend
and I know perfecly well what ramp guys are capable off Perhaps you guys are right maybe I was partly to blame as I may have been in a bad mood, because I was put in a bad mood at check-in and BFS security generally isn't a pleasant experience either!! I make no excuses for my performance, I do try to be a 'well behaved passenger'and I usually find travelling through BFS pleasant enough, but the ground staff certainly didn't make it very easy on this occasion!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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BMIBaby spotted this afternoon at BHD...a diversion due fog?
As has been highlighted earlier in this thread, the airport is only half the issue. If the aircraft doesn't have the right gizmos...
As has been highlighted earlier in this thread, the airport is only half the issue. If the aircraft doesn't have the right gizmos...
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Hello all - New to this thread and not a pilot or controller but have what is probably an unhealthy interest in a/c and airports.
Anyway Telegraph tonight mentions another airline being interested in City airport - subject to runway extension - any ideas?
Anyway Telegraph tonight mentions another airline being interested in City airport - subject to runway extension - any ideas?