British Airways - 2
Join Date: Sep 2006
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As Ryanair have mentioned this previously, it may happen. I'm not sure how popular "zero frills long haul" would be with passengers (assuming flights would be 7 hours plus - eg. transatlantic?).
Too young to remember - what were Laker like? Really 'no frills' or what?
Too young to remember - what were Laker like? Really 'no frills' or what?
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Good question jonnychips - I can vaguely remember Laker operating, but not aware of what level of service / frills they had on board?
Anyone on pprune have any experience of them?
Anyone on pprune have any experience of them?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
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will decimate BA (cost base being their biggest problem)
) and BA having a relatively 'mature' (the right word?) crew, I would assume that within the next 10-15 years when BA/IB/AA pretty much will become one - I dread to think how competitive they will be.They have this on their side:
1. Economies of scale
Every possible cost you could think will fall in price per unit. They will be the biggest airline in the world in terms of traffic, revenue miles, passengers and aircraft. Already BA/IB are calculating massive savings from their merger, never mind when AA are in town!
2. Largest airline across the Atlantic
BA currently have more flights than any other carrier between Europe and the US and Canada. IB pretty much have South America sown up. AA would just add to both.
3. Heathrow
The biggest asset for BA. Their dominance at the airport is what is keeping them afloat. The lack of slots is limiting competition which in BA's current state would see them crying to the Chancellor.
4. South America
IB/AA cover the market more than any other international airline.
If we take BA as of this evening - they are in a bad state. However, within the coming years as they marry IB and get ever closer to AA (if the next stage of the US/EU agreement goes through it will only be a matter of time), plus a plummet in the bottom line (economies of scale/retirement of high earners), they look very much stronger.
Also take into account the BE share which BA don't seem reluctant to disown and their lucrative LCY operation.
The major players on the international stage in the western world are going to include:
AA/BA/IB
LH(inc. subsidiaries)
AF/KL
CO/UA
DL/NW
Plus the low cost airlines on either side of the Atlantic.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
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With regards to the pension fund if BA goes bust?
I have been led to believe that this would not be a bad thing for current pensioners as the whole thing would be frozen and no allowance would have to be made in the valuations for future retirees. This is probably an over-simplification, can anyone shed any further light on the matter? - From a better-informed viewpoint than mine (shouldn't be too difficult!!!!!)
I have been led to believe that this would not be a bad thing for current pensioners as the whole thing would be frozen and no allowance would have to be made in the valuations for future retirees. This is probably an over-simplification, can anyone shed any further light on the matter? - From a better-informed viewpoint than mine (shouldn't be too difficult!!!!!)
Join Date: Dec 2005
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what were Laker like? Really 'no frills' or what?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Essex
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There wasn't "one" Laker, as it were.
When Laker started across the Atlantic, it was not possible to make advance reservations (at which point BA, Pan Am and TWA introduced "standby" fares). Prospective passengers simply queued and took their chances. However, it evolved quite quickly into something else, with "APEX" (Advance Purchase Excursion) fares and a "premium" offering, for example.
Laker grew into a sizeable operation. I remember being quite impressed by the large number of departures Laker had from LAX to the UK whilst I was waiting to board BA's (lone) departure to London one day in August, 1981.
When Laker started across the Atlantic, it was not possible to make advance reservations (at which point BA, Pan Am and TWA introduced "standby" fares). Prospective passengers simply queued and took their chances. However, it evolved quite quickly into something else, with "APEX" (Advance Purchase Excursion) fares and a "premium" offering, for example.
Laker grew into a sizeable operation. I remember being quite impressed by the large number of departures Laker had from LAX to the UK whilst I was waiting to board BA's (lone) departure to London one day in August, 1981.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: london
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fun flights
if ba wants to make some money,then why don,t they bring back the fun flights they did in the late 80s.they were like a mystery flight you did not know were you were going till you checked in at 9.30am.many a time i went to cdg,ams,dus,and even cork for 45 mins.a minimum of 6 of you could go,and pick up your dutyfree back.bring them back i say loved it on a sunday..
Join Date: Oct 2002
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'they were like a mystery flight you did not know were you were going'
Another airline has taken this one step further,where you know where you want to go but have to look at the local map to see where your actually going to go !
Another airline has taken this one step further,where you know where you want to go but have to look at the local map to see where your actually going to go !
Join Date: Sep 2002
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This is becoming nonsense with fares from Ryanair and Easyjet so low=buy one of there tickets? At BA we are busy enough as one of the worlds' major airlines? Feel free to purchase a ticket with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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After British Airways ?
I am a supporter of BA as many of you will know. However I cannot see them coming back from a twelve day debacle over the Christmas period. The pension deficit is like a millstone, Iberia is a semi-reluctant partner and the Lufthansa and Air France / KLM groupings have far them well behind.
SO. If things escalate and BA falls, which is now a very real possibility as the travelling public is furious, what would be the implications for us all ?
Heathrow would no longer need a third runway tomorrow. Growth could be managed much better to bring things back to 2010 levels over a period of a few years.
Terminal 5 could be made available to....who I wonder? Would Skyteam suddenly 180 backtrack and be moving out of T4 as fast as they moved in?
Would Virgin be in a much healthier place financially?
Might BMI be turned around by going after displaced ex BA loyalists looking for a British Midland approach?
What would be the impact on the US airlines as one of their high quality competitors is removed?
Every cloud has a silver lining. Perhaps it's time to explore options....
SO. If things escalate and BA falls, which is now a very real possibility as the travelling public is furious, what would be the implications for us all ?
Heathrow would no longer need a third runway tomorrow. Growth could be managed much better to bring things back to 2010 levels over a period of a few years.
Terminal 5 could be made available to....who I wonder? Would Skyteam suddenly 180 backtrack and be moving out of T4 as fast as they moved in?
Would Virgin be in a much healthier place financially?
Might BMI be turned around by going after displaced ex BA loyalists looking for a British Midland approach?
What would be the impact on the US airlines as one of their high quality competitors is removed?
Every cloud has a silver lining. Perhaps it's time to explore options....
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester
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There is little chance that the strike will go ahead, BA are already in Legal talks, even if that does not work they will get together round the table and suspend strike action.
WHat business will be lost with people booking on other flights until its sorted out is to be seen, but the chance of a 12 day strike is slim to non IMHO.
WHat business will be lost with people booking on other flights until its sorted out is to be seen, but the chance of a 12 day strike is slim to non IMHO.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I think what we first need to realise is that BA, as a NAME may be worth nothing IF the strikes were to go ahead.
However, their assets are worth billions. Just their aircraft and LHR slots alone push the multi-billion pound barriers.
If the situation came to the worst possible scenario, I am sure it would be bought out by a consortium or a billionaire playboy. We need to remember that although within this country we hate everything we do, we are also one of the most patriotic and many British people are proud of BA. Just travelling to the US, you realise how well respected the carrier is amongst Americans, mainly because the service is far superior to that of any international US carrier.
Very correct. Would the unions really want a law suit for eye watering amounts of money? I doubt it.
I assume that all AA flights across the Atlantic will be full as will a number of domestics in the US with BA passengers. I would guess similar OW partners will also benefit from bulging loads.
However, their assets are worth billions. Just their aircraft and LHR slots alone push the multi-billion pound barriers.
If the situation came to the worst possible scenario, I am sure it would be bought out by a consortium or a billionaire playboy. We need to remember that although within this country we hate everything we do, we are also one of the most patriotic and many British people are proud of BA. Just travelling to the US, you realise how well respected the carrier is amongst Americans, mainly because the service is far superior to that of any international US carrier.
There is little chance that the strike will go ahead, BA are already in Legal talks, even if that does not work they will get together round the table and suspend strike action.
WHat business will be lost with people booking on other flights until its sorted out is to be seen, but the chance of a 12 day strike is slim to non IMHO.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The simple solution is to close the company down and start again.
The slots do not belong to BA: they belong to ACL who allocate them/ No doubt they would allocate the BA slots to the all new British Overseas Airways and to the short haul fleets in British European Airways.
New contracts, new working practices, lowr salaries, higher productivity an a reinvigorated business model an vastly improved service.
Instead of trying to be a hybrid LCC stick 2 fingers up, charge a reasonable fare and DELIVER!
The slots do not belong to BA: they belong to ACL who allocate them/ No doubt they would allocate the BA slots to the all new British Overseas Airways and to the short haul fleets in British European Airways.
New contracts, new working practices, lowr salaries, higher productivity an a reinvigorated business model an vastly improved service.
Instead of trying to be a hybrid LCC stick 2 fingers up, charge a reasonable fare and DELIVER!
Unfortunately with a £3.7 Billion deficit there is a questionable value to BA as a Going Concern if the strike goes ahead and industrial unrest were to continue.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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It's fairly simple, Willie walsh calls in administrators, the company is run for a few months under administration. During this time all debts are writen off. No more pension fund deficit, no more pension. Fleet size reduced and remaining staff all sorted out with new contracts. Willie and his mates then form a management buyout team. New BA with a fresh start, no pension deficit, no labour problem. Winners, Willie and mates. Loosers, everyone else.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Very probable scenario Ballsout.
One way or another BA needs radical reform of its operating procedures and cost base. WW knows that and knows what he needs to do to achieve it. There is no way he can allow a bunch of dumbheaded cabin crew led by union dinosaurs to stand in the way of progress. If Unite don't see sense in the new talks now taking place then I'm afraid that BA as we knew it is dead.
One way or another BA needs radical reform of its operating procedures and cost base. WW knows that and knows what he needs to do to achieve it. There is no way he can allow a bunch of dumbheaded cabin crew led by union dinosaurs to stand in the way of progress. If Unite don't see sense in the new talks now taking place then I'm afraid that BA as we knew it is dead.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Many of today's UK newspapers have tables giving comparisons between BA's cabin staff pay and that of many other airlines. BA's appear to be among the highest in Europe. Scarcely a good position in which to try and compete for business.
Possibly as a result of its high costs BA's experience in competing over the last 15 years is dreadful. 15 years ago BA was by far the largest airline in Europe. It second hub was at Gatwick and at Gatwick it had a larger operation than KLM had at Schipol. It was Rod Eddington who decided that the company had to consolidate at Heathrow. So most of the long haul has gone at Gatwick. The franchised operations at LGW have been cut by at least a third. Provincial operations have been eliminated at MAN and BHX by giving them to Flybe.
It has been more than a decade of seemingly endless decline. BA now seems to have the worst financial position of any European major airline.
In the same newspapers BASSA ( the branch of Unite representing BA cabin crew) there are reports of a BASSA memo accusing BA management of trying to turn the airline into another Ryanair. It asserts that BA management are trying to turn thre company into a poor shadow of waht it is at best. What a joke. It would do BASSA well to read up about Ryanair. They could start by reading the RYR thread on this site.
Unlike BA RYR is profitable. BA is declining in size, RYR is expanding rapidly. RYR carries more than twice as many pax as BA per year. The gap is growing rapidly. BA is trying to get rid of staff. RYR is employing new people every day.
BA will almost certainly have to cutback further. That will be certain if the strike goes ahead.
Come on BASSA. protecting your bloated priveleged terms and conditions is killing the golden goose. RYR is offering jobs, BA isn't.
Possibly as a result of its high costs BA's experience in competing over the last 15 years is dreadful. 15 years ago BA was by far the largest airline in Europe. It second hub was at Gatwick and at Gatwick it had a larger operation than KLM had at Schipol. It was Rod Eddington who decided that the company had to consolidate at Heathrow. So most of the long haul has gone at Gatwick. The franchised operations at LGW have been cut by at least a third. Provincial operations have been eliminated at MAN and BHX by giving them to Flybe.
It has been more than a decade of seemingly endless decline. BA now seems to have the worst financial position of any European major airline.
In the same newspapers BASSA ( the branch of Unite representing BA cabin crew) there are reports of a BASSA memo accusing BA management of trying to turn the airline into another Ryanair. It asserts that BA management are trying to turn thre company into a poor shadow of waht it is at best. What a joke. It would do BASSA well to read up about Ryanair. They could start by reading the RYR thread on this site.
Unlike BA RYR is profitable. BA is declining in size, RYR is expanding rapidly. RYR carries more than twice as many pax as BA per year. The gap is growing rapidly. BA is trying to get rid of staff. RYR is employing new people every day.
BA will almost certainly have to cutback further. That will be certain if the strike goes ahead.
Come on BASSA. protecting your bloated priveleged terms and conditions is killing the golden goose. RYR is offering jobs, BA isn't.
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Interesting to see that the UKs 'supreme' court, could find time instantly, to hear BAs case for halting a strike... 
BA? Just another airline. Nothing special - is there? OK, I will give you the fact that every year, they threaten to do something drastic, only to back down at the last minute. THEN, when they get the bit between their teeth and go for it big time, the CC union balls it up...
What a bunch of 
Cant wait to see Mr Woodley explain this one away on the news, and then announce the 'next' strike. (Thats if the CC dont call in sick)
BA? Just another airline. Nothing special - is there? OK, I will give you the fact that every year, they threaten to do something drastic, only to back down at the last minute. THEN, when they get the bit between their teeth and go for it big time, the CC union balls it up...
What a bunch of Cant wait to see Mr Woodley explain this one away on the news, and then announce the 'next' strike. (Thats if the CC dont call in sick)