British Airways - 2
Will JNB flights be retimed for A380? The aircraft normally arrives early morning from LHR and sits on ground all day until evening departure.
Not a good utilisation of a new aircraft as costly as an A380.
Not a good utilisation of a new aircraft as costly as an A380.
Last edited by vctenderness; 25th Jul 2013 at 13:07.
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That's how Air France & Lufthansa operate their 380s to JNB. They just sit there all day. I assume that they either can't fill or get the yield from a daytime flight. In fact I think there are virtually no daylight Europe-SA flights.
If the yield justifies the type, then I guess it works.
If the yield justifies the type, then I guess it works.
Last edited by cheesycol; 25th Jul 2013 at 09:19.
Lengthy north-south intercontinental routes in pretty much the same time zone, like Europe to Johannesburg, just do not work commercially for daylight flights. USA to Argentina/Chile is another. The flights takes literally all day and thus cannot give sensible onward connections at one or maybe both ends. By the time you have transferred and are ready to check in again, onward services have typically stopped for the day.
It's not only aviation connections, late arrivals can find that onward public transport is finished for the day as well.
There have been a couple of attempts over time, generally where the operations side have managed to muscle over the commercial team, and they have always ended as disasters for revenue. If you manage high theoretical utilisation but the passengers don't want it, what's the point ? The only thing a European carrier can do is leave Europe as late as practical, and try to be back home as early in the morning as possible, after two nights away, to merge the scheduling with other routes. Bear in mind that the bulk of aviation costs are actually related to flying hours, costs which are just straight time-dependent are a minority - this even applies to an extent to aircraft leasing costs.
It's not only aviation connections, late arrivals can find that onward public transport is finished for the day as well.
There have been a couple of attempts over time, generally where the operations side have managed to muscle over the commercial team, and they have always ended as disasters for revenue. If you manage high theoretical utilisation but the passengers don't want it, what's the point ? The only thing a European carrier can do is leave Europe as late as practical, and try to be back home as early in the morning as possible, after two nights away, to merge the scheduling with other routes. Bear in mind that the bulk of aviation costs are actually related to flying hours, costs which are just straight time-dependent are a minority - this even applies to an extent to aircraft leasing costs.
cheesycol - maybe an exception to the rule, but I think KLM do a daylight southbound from Amsterdam to both Johannesburg and Cape Town
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 25th Jul 2013 at 12:19.
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Originally Posted by Champair79
Turin, not strictly true.
The 737s will start to be retired from the start of this year's winter schedule. There is a natural reduction in Gatwick flying during the winter season so the retirements can be accommodated without moving any extra aircraft down.
The 737s will start to be retired from the start of this year's winter schedule. There is a natural reduction in Gatwick flying during the winter season so the retirements can be accommodated without moving any extra aircraft down.
Heathrow arrival - stand not ready
A while ago I started to keep records of my BA arrivals at Heathrow where we had to hold just off stand waiting for the stand guidance to be switched on, and other preparations for our actual arrival. My most recent arrival made it the fourth time IN A ROW when this happened. Of course, I only started these records because it had happened umpteen times previously. This is a phenomena unique to Heathrow and has never occurred to me at any BA outstation.
Equally extraordinary are PA announcements from the flight deck at these times as if such an event has never been known before.
The most common excuses given are either "well, we are a bit early", or "well we are a bit late", as if it is only possible for the Heathrow (uniquely) gate staff to be on duty in time for a precisely punctual arrival. But the last time I had one of these, we had to hold then as well.
Possibly if the BA airside manager were to invest in a little PC and get onto the Flightstats website, which is I believe run by enthusiasts off various open-access ATC feeds, they might be able to see a good indication of expected arrivals.
Through the window one is well able to distinguish between waiting for another aircraft to leave the stand, or manoeuvre ahead, and the stand personnel just not being there on your nicely vacant stand when you arrive.
I wonder if anyone at BA T5 has ever though to go over to London City, where incoming aircraft require two marshallers to be in place to guide them in and turn them tightly, who have never, in all the years I have used LCY, not been in position as we arrive.
Equally extraordinary are PA announcements from the flight deck at these times as if such an event has never been known before.
The most common excuses given are either "well, we are a bit early", or "well we are a bit late", as if it is only possible for the Heathrow (uniquely) gate staff to be on duty in time for a precisely punctual arrival. But the last time I had one of these, we had to hold then as well.
Possibly if the BA airside manager were to invest in a little PC and get onto the Flightstats website, which is I believe run by enthusiasts off various open-access ATC feeds, they might be able to see a good indication of expected arrivals.
Through the window one is well able to distinguish between waiting for another aircraft to leave the stand, or manoeuvre ahead, and the stand personnel just not being there on your nicely vacant stand when you arrive.
I wonder if anyone at BA T5 has ever though to go over to London City, where incoming aircraft require two marshallers to be in place to guide them in and turn them tightly, who have never, in all the years I have used LCY, not been in position as we arrive.
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Why would the agents need flight stats when they are likely to have a very good flight information system. Of course the issue lies when aircraft are in holds etc and were all expected in at the same time.
I have no doubt they are also linked in to the ground radar so they would be able to see the likelyhood of which aircraft it likely to be on stand first.
I'm guessing if an aircraft is early then the team expected to turn it round maybe stuck on another aircraft. Also if a plane is late then you have to deal with that delayed aircraft as soon as possible.
In an ideal world with endless pot of money to dip in for turnaround teams to be sat around waiting for an aircraft to arrive so it's on stand immediately however things have changed and there is likely to be very little slack in the system when things go off schedule.
I have no doubt they are also linked in to the ground radar so they would be able to see the likelyhood of which aircraft it likely to be on stand first.
I'm guessing if an aircraft is early then the team expected to turn it round maybe stuck on another aircraft. Also if a plane is late then you have to deal with that delayed aircraft as soon as possible.
In an ideal world with endless pot of money to dip in for turnaround teams to be sat around waiting for an aircraft to arrive so it's on stand immediately however things have changed and there is likely to be very little slack in the system when things go off schedule.