British Airways - 2
Little bit off topic, but I normally fly BA City Flyer to Ibiza, and I think the service is excellent. In every airline you get the odd crew member who has an attitude problem. I just hope that you wrote in or spoke to the cabin manager.
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Quote: "What evidence do you have that BA doesn't "look ahead and long term" ?"
It was more for those who don't appear to realise the long term implications of not doing sufficient trade with China. Was not criticising BA, they may be doing this route, as reported in post 2,231. Sorry if it came across that way.
It was more for those who don't appear to realise the long term implications of not doing sufficient trade with China. Was not criticising BA, they may be doing this route, as reported in post 2,231. Sorry if it came across that way.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 27th Nov 2012 at 18:33.
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On the matter of BA's A380s, do you think it is likely that like its 747s, they would operate several seating plans with the A380s?
If so would a 14-18F/120J/70W/200Y (400) configuration be a good idea for BAs routes? As suggested in Post 9 on
BA A380 Makes First Flight — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net
Also would there be more orders for the A380 by BA, currently only 17 of the large 747-400 fleet are being replaced (5 have been replaced by the 777-300ER and 12 will be replaced by the A380)
That leaves around 40 that would still be left by 2020 (the youngest of which would be 20 years old)
So would another 10-20 A380s being ordered be a good idea (the rest being replaced by A350-1000s)
If so would a 14-18F/120J/70W/200Y (400) configuration be a good idea for BAs routes? As suggested in Post 9 on
BA A380 Makes First Flight — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net
Also would there be more orders for the A380 by BA, currently only 17 of the large 747-400 fleet are being replaced (5 have been replaced by the 777-300ER and 12 will be replaced by the A380)
That leaves around 40 that would still be left by 2020 (the youngest of which would be 20 years old)
So would another 10-20 A380s being ordered be a good idea (the rest being replaced by A350-1000s)
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If BA launched new routes to China and Taiwan from LHR, would any of these destinations be viable?
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport
Nanjing Lukou International Airport
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport
Nanjing Lukou International Airport
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport
12 aircraft is a bit of a small fleet to have multiple configurations within it, and would lead to some operating inefficiencies, which for the sort of capital investment each A380 represents is not something you want. There is a bit of an art in having this and then adapting your revenue management to maximise the take on each route served - an art that BA are doubtless well aware of.
Regarding what is now one of the largest remaining 747 fleets around, most of which are from the 1990s, there are a number of new long-haul designs coming along currently, and for such a big purchase that will be needed BA will doubtless have in mind to have the newer types and not one about to go out of production. There's a whole department, Fleet Planning, that manages this, and they crunch the numbers every day on optimising things. I'm sure that over at IAG the lesson of Iberia stocking up on a big multi-billion purchase of A340-600s which promptly lost much of their value and went out of production is well up in their minds.
Regarding what is now one of the largest remaining 747 fleets around, most of which are from the 1990s, there are a number of new long-haul designs coming along currently, and for such a big purchase that will be needed BA will doubtless have in mind to have the newer types and not one about to go out of production. There's a whole department, Fleet Planning, that manages this, and they crunch the numbers every day on optimising things. I'm sure that over at IAG the lesson of Iberia stocking up on a big multi-billion purchase of A340-600s which promptly lost much of their value and went out of production is well up in their minds.
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As a regular traveller to China I would answer as follows:
If BA launched new routes to China and Taiwan from LHR, would any of these destinations be viable?
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport - Already discussed seems it is possible
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand
Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now.
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport - Maybe some way off in the future not now.
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport - As with Hangzhou doubt there is the demand
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport - As above.
If BA launched new routes to China and Taiwan from LHR, would any of these destinations be viable?
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport - Already discussed seems it is possible
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand
Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now.
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport - Maybe some way off in the future not now.
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport - As with Hangzhou doubt there is the demand
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport - As above.
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Quote: "Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport - Already discussed seems it is possible
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Yes, and China Southern have recently started on the Canton route, upping it to a daily frequency within a few months indicating good potential.
Quote: "Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Hangzhou is also close to Shanghai, within the the "golden triangle", so like Nanjing, could dilute the Pudong route.
Quote: "Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now."
IIRC this was an add-on from Hong Kong four days/week.
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Yes, and China Southern have recently started on the Canton route, upping it to a daily frequency within a few months indicating good potential.
Quote: "Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Hangzhou is also close to Shanghai, within the the "golden triangle", so like Nanjing, could dilute the Pudong route.
Quote: "Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now."
IIRC this was an add-on from Hong Kong four days/week.
Oneworld has plenty of flights daily from London to Hong Kong. Cathay has an extraordinary amount of capacity between HKG and Taipei - approx flights every hour, many being widebodies. Would a BA direct LHR-TPE route really add anything when the 1-stop frequency is so high ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 29th Nov 2012 at 21:44.
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Quote: "Oneworld has plenty of flights daily from London to Hong Kong. Cathay has an extraordinary amount of capacity between HKG and Taipei - approx flights every hour, many being widebodies. Would a BA direct LHR-TPE route really add anything when the 1-stop frequency is so high ?"
Indeed, have done the journey, that's probably why BA dropped the route, it's an easy transfer at HKG.
Indeed, have done the journey, that's probably why BA dropped the route, it's an easy transfer at HKG.
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Would a BA direct LHR-TPE route really add anything when the 1-stop frequency is so high ?
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I have done both the EVA Air via Bangkok and the CX via Hong Kong, I would never choose the EVA option again the stop is Bangkok is frustrating, changing in HKG is much easier.
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12 aircraft is a bit of a small fleet to have multiple configurations within it, and would lead to some operating inefficiencies, which for the sort of capital investment each A380 represents is not something you want. There is a bit of an art in having this and then adapting your revenue management to maximise the take on each route served - an art that BA are doubtless well aware of.
Regarding what is now one of the largest remaining 747 fleets around, most of which are from the 1990s, there are a number of new long-haul designs coming along currently, and for such a big purchase that will be needed BA will doubtless have in mind to have the newer types and not one about to go out of production. There's a whole department, Fleet Planning, that manages this, and they crunch the numbers every day on optimising things. I'm sure that over at IAG the lesson of Iberia stocking up on a big multi-billion purchase of A340-600s which promptly lost much of their value and went out of production is well up in their minds.
Regarding what is now one of the largest remaining 747 fleets around, most of which are from the 1990s, there are a number of new long-haul designs coming along currently, and for such a big purchase that will be needed BA will doubtless have in mind to have the newer types and not one about to go out of production. There's a whole department, Fleet Planning, that manages this, and they crunch the numbers every day on optimising things. I'm sure that over at IAG the lesson of Iberia stocking up on a big multi-billion purchase of A340-600s which promptly lost much of their value and went out of production is well up in their minds.
As for the replacement of the 747-400s, it also depends on how much space there would be at LHR, for BA there are 3 options if they want planes that are not likely to be out of production, they are:
777-9X
A350-1000
A380-800
I doubt the 777-9X would be chosen by BA, because they are not only due to start deliveries in the Mid-2020, by then all the 747s would have been withdrawn and anyway BA would then have to wait before EK gets their planes delivered
That leaves the A350-1000 and A380-800, now which plane would get what proportion of a furture 747-400 replacement order would depend on how much capacity would there be at LHR, I would suggest that BA would in the long run end up operating the second biggest operator of the A380 (25-30) and one of the biggest A350-1000 operators
In relation to this, when are the leases on all but 2 777-300ERs are due to expire, after all they are a "stop-gap" in the fleet and if they sold on, I suggest they would be replaced by A350-1000s
As for 777-200ERs, which are only slightly younger, they would come next in terms of replacement, if BA orders the A350-1000, then I suggest that the best option for them would be the A350-900
In other words, here is what a future BA fleet would look like:
Embraer E-170
Embraer E-190
Airbus A318
Airbus A319neo
Airbud A320neo
Airbus A321neo
Boeing 787-8
Boeing 787-9
Airbus A350-900
Airbus A350-1000
Airbus A380-800
As a regular traveller to China I would answer as follows:
If BA launched new routes to China and Taiwan from LHR, would any of these destinations be viable?
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport - Already discussed seems it is possible
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand
Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now.
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport - Maybe some way off in the future not now.
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport - As with Hangzhou doubt there is the demand
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport - As above.
If BA launched new routes to China and Taiwan from LHR, would any of these destinations be viable?
Chengdu Shuangliu International Airport - Already discussed seems it is possible
Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport - Even though it is only a couple of hours from Hong Kong it is the heart of an economically strong province so would make sense yes.
Hangzhou Xiaoshan International Airport - No cant imagine a major demand
Nanjing Lukou International Airport - No less than an hours flying from Shanghai not a big airport would I imagine dilute Shanghai
Taiwan Taoyuan International Airport - Used to have Taipei, however would imagine the significant political problems it creates means no for now.
Wuhan Tianhe International Airport - Maybe some way off in the future not now.
Xiamen Gaoqi International Airport - As with Hangzhou doubt there is the demand
Xi'an Xianyang International Airport - As above.
Also it is not the case that the poltical problems between PRC-ROC have been fixed in relation to avation, for example the rule in realtion to creating a wholly owned seperate airline (to serve the ROC) have largely be relaxed and airlines from both nations now sevrve the other country
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Relations are indeed better between the mainland and Taiwan, however politically China still claims the island as part of the greater motherland. It would be sensitive for BA to operate to Taipei as it could be seen by Beijing as a political act, without going into great details as the the background it is not easy to explain the working of the Chinese mind in relation to Taiwan, just trust me it is not as straight forward as it may appear.
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Would any of this airports in South America be viable enough to be served from LHR by BA
Brasília International Airport
Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport
El Dorado International Airport
Jorge Chávez International Airport
José Joaquín de Olmedo International Airport
Mariscal Sucre International Airport
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International
Salgado Filho International Airport
Silvio Pettirossi International Airport
Recife/Guararapes-Gilberto Freyre International Airport
All of these are LATAM hubs, what I am suggesting that IAG and LATAM should agree that LATAM serves Mainland-Europe/Ireland from LATAM and BA serves those hubs from the UK, this would mean IB withdraws services from MAD to LATAM hubs (although it would still codeshare LATAM flights to MAD and if launched BCN)
Brasília International Airport
Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport
El Dorado International Airport
Jorge Chávez International Airport
José Joaquín de Olmedo International Airport
Mariscal Sucre International Airport
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International
Salgado Filho International Airport
Silvio Pettirossi International Airport
Recife/Guararapes-Gilberto Freyre International Airport
All of these are LATAM hubs, what I am suggesting that IAG and LATAM should agree that LATAM serves Mainland-Europe/Ireland from LATAM and BA serves those hubs from the UK, this would mean IB withdraws services from MAD to LATAM hubs (although it would still codeshare LATAM flights to MAD and if launched BCN)
To the user using the name British Airways - while I appreciate like anyone else you may admire some companies in particular, it's a bad idea to use a handle here with the same name as an airline unless you are representing the airline in an official capacity. Perhaps you could pick a different nickname for this website ? It'll go down better with many people.
In your post about airports about South America you seem to have picked the official names from wikipedia. Perhaps you could edit your earlier post to refer to the colloquial names that everyone uses such as referring to the name of the major city served by the airport.
In your post about airports about South America you seem to have picked the official names from wikipedia. Perhaps you could edit your earlier post to refer to the colloquial names that everyone uses such as referring to the name of the major city served by the airport.
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Relations are indeed better between the mainland and Taiwan, however politically China still claims the island as part of the greater motherland. It would be sensitive for BA to operate to Taipei as it could be seen by Beijing as a political act, without going into great details as the the background it is not easy to explain the working of the Chinese mind in relation to Taiwan, just trust me it is not as straight forward as it may appear.
What I don't get is why China still has a problem with Airlines in Europe (currently KLM only) in serving Taiwan under their own name (on the basis of the fact they are "symbols/arms of the state"), when they don't apply to American, Japanese, South East Asian, Korean and their own carriers (a fair number of which are state owned)
Remember the only nation that have diplomatic relations with the ROC in Europe is the Vatican, so I still don't get what Beijing has a problem with?
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To the user using the name British Airways - while I appreciate like anyone else you may admire some companies in particular, it's a bad idea to use a handle here with the same name as an airline unless you are representing the airline in an official capacity. Perhaps you could pick a different nickname for this website ? It'll go down better with many people.
In your post about airports about South America you seem to have picked the official names from wikipedia. Perhaps you could edit your earlier post to refer to the colloquial names that everyone uses such as referring to the name of the major city served by the airport.
Brasília International Airport (Brasilia)
Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport (Santiago)
El Dorado International Airport (Bogota)
Jorge Chávez International Airport (Lima)
José Joaquín de Olmedo International Airport (Guayaquil)
Mariscal Sucre International Airport (Quito)
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International (Salvador)
Recife/Guararapes-Gilberto Freyre International Airport (Recife)
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International (Salvador)
Salgado Filho International Airport (Porto Alegre)
Silvio Pettirossi International Airport (Asunción)
Tancredo Neves International Airport
Last edited by BALHR; 30th Nov 2012 at 13:31.
It is, however, so difficult for us to understand why it is too sensitive for a UK carrier to serve there, when multiple US carriers, KLM, etc serve there, when there are 4 daily flights to Beijing and 8 to Shanghai from Taipei (plus many other mainland cities) by an equal balance of Taiwanese and mainland Chinese carriers, and when Cathay Pacific, owned 30% by mainland government-owned Chinese carrier Air China, mounts such a high density service between the two hubs.
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It is difficult to understand without getting inside the Chinese mentatility. Yes KLM serve there but are the only European carrier to do so and I think I am correct do so as KLM Asia. The Americans have a different relationship with Taiwan to the rest of us, I have often myself referred to Taipei and the U.S. version of Hong Kong.
The fact is that the mainland government views inter straits flights as flights between two parts of China and remember it has taken many years for this situation to occur. Flights HK to Taiwan have always been frequent and whilst pre dates the return to the mainland where an unofficial way of connecting pre mainland flights.
The Beijing government would view the commencement of services by a flag carrier as a political move and that is why many airlines have shied away from offering direct flights.
There is a great demand for flights from China to Taiwan and v.v. maybe the other truth is there is not such a great demand from Europe.
The fact is that the mainland government views inter straits flights as flights between two parts of China and remember it has taken many years for this situation to occur. Flights HK to Taiwan have always been frequent and whilst pre dates the return to the mainland where an unofficial way of connecting pre mainland flights.
The Beijing government would view the commencement of services by a flag carrier as a political move and that is why many airlines have shied away from offering direct flights.
There is a great demand for flights from China to Taiwan and v.v. maybe the other truth is there is not such a great demand from Europe.
Last edited by pwalhx; 30th Nov 2012 at 15:24.
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Would any of this airports in South America be viable enough to be served from LHR by BA
Brasília International Airport
Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport
El Dorado International Airport
Jorge Chávez International Airport
José Joaquín de Olmedo International Airport
Mariscal Sucre International Airport
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International
Salgado Filho International Airport
Silvio Pettirossi International Airport
Recife/Guararapes-Gilberto Freyre International Airport
All of these are LATAM hubs, what I am suggesting that IAG and LATAM should agree that LATAM serves Mainland-Europe/Ireland from LATAM and BA serves those hubs from the UK, this would mean IB withdraws services from MAD to LATAM hubs (although it would still codeshare LATAM flights to MAD and if launched BCN)
Brasília International Airport
Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport
El Dorado International Airport
Jorge Chávez International Airport
José Joaquín de Olmedo International Airport
Mariscal Sucre International Airport
Salvador-Deputado Luís Eduardo Magalhães International
Salgado Filho International Airport
Silvio Pettirossi International Airport
Recife/Guararapes-Gilberto Freyre International Airport
All of these are LATAM hubs, what I am suggesting that IAG and LATAM should agree that LATAM serves Mainland-Europe/Ireland from LATAM and BA serves those hubs from the UK, this would mean IB withdraws services from MAD to LATAM hubs (although it would still codeshare LATAM flights to MAD and if launched BCN)