British Airways - 2
Controversial, moi?
The quoted legal duty times just go to show how totally out of touch CAP371 is. Plenty of modern and reputable research available but until we have a few more grisly aeroplane crashes nothing much will happen any time soon.
I am very pleased that BA industrial agreements take a slightly more realistic view of fatigue.
As one chief pilot said to me 'If I was a passenger I would like my pilots to be well fed and well rested'. I can reluctantly accept that I am unlikely to die in an air crash due to the slops which pass for crew meals but now that so many of us are bouncing off the legal annual flying hour limits it is hard to make an outsider really understand what it means to be permanently so very, very tired.
I am very pleased that BA industrial agreements take a slightly more realistic view of fatigue.
As one chief pilot said to me 'If I was a passenger I would like my pilots to be well fed and well rested'. I can reluctantly accept that I am unlikely to die in an air crash due to the slops which pass for crew meals but now that so many of us are bouncing off the legal annual flying hour limits it is hard to make an outsider really understand what it means to be permanently so very, very tired.
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Good idea I reckon. Vegas has always been a tough place to get to easily, with only Virgin doing it. Although I think Bmi did it for a while too, as did My travel. It's not a great destination for the charters because it tends to be a 5 day kind of place, rather than a week destination which the charters prefer.
I'm sure Virgin won't be happy about it though!!!
I'm not at all surprised BA are turning to some Leisure routes. All of the business routes (and associated First and Business) are struggling right now. Leisure and Holiday routes are doing well in general - just ask Thomson or Thomas Cook....
I'm sure Virgin won't be happy about it though!!!
I'm not at all surprised BA are turning to some Leisure routes. All of the business routes (and associated First and Business) are struggling right now. Leisure and Holiday routes are doing well in general - just ask Thomson or Thomas Cook....
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M.Mouse,
While agreeing with your sentiment I have to say your attitude is going to kill BA. I work for a charter airline (I know most BA pilots look down their noses at us) that does regular UK LCA UK flights and plenty of UK CALGARY flights.
LCA is quite a long day but not too bad, Calgary with two crew over the atlantic is a BREEZE!!!
BA needs to change and change fast or it will become another failed airline!
While agreeing with your sentiment I have to say your attitude is going to kill BA. I work for a charter airline (I know most BA pilots look down their noses at us) that does regular UK LCA UK flights and plenty of UK CALGARY flights.
LCA is quite a long day but not too bad, Calgary with two crew over the atlantic is a BREEZE!!!
BA needs to change and change fast or it will become another failed airline!
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I heard on the radio earlier that he's refusing his wages for either June or July. (June I think it was). Interesting tactic there - big gesture from the big man, makes joe public impressed at his efforts, but really it won't make much of a difference! And of course, few will realise this.
We were told last Autumn that fuel hedging had cost us £350 million and that this was a one off cost. Does this mean that really we made a loss of £50 million if you follow on year on year?
Also the figure of £2.5 million a day bandied about by BA managers doesn't seem to stack up anymore. What is the real truth?
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I'm not sure we should be criticising BA for providing a relief pilot on an 11hr 30 day. (I presume it's a 90min and not 60 min report). If only more airlines had such an enlightened view to FTLs. They are a limit, NOT a target. May BA long continue to take this view.
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If Willy Walsh's salary for July really makes a difference in all this, then he is getting paid way too much. Unfortunately in BA, as in many companies, there remain people on the pay role who do very little but always survive as friends of the right people. Been there and seen it.
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I'm sure that wee willy winkle could afford not to be paid for even a year and maybe even several high managements roles could cope with what they get paid.
Even the company i work for, although very small, the owners have not taken their monthly salary since January 2009 just to preserve cash, they are living off their savings in order to protect the business.
Some BA staff need to wake up and get in the real world, yes the company is very generous compared to other airlines but i think now it will affect everyone. No doubt there will be job losses, revised terms of employment and people will be fighting for their jobs. In the cruel world that it is today, you have to be flexbile and make sacrifices.
Even the company i work for, although very small, the owners have not taken their monthly salary since January 2009 just to preserve cash, they are living off their savings in order to protect the business.
Some BA staff need to wake up and get in the real world, yes the company is very generous compared to other airlines but i think now it will affect everyone. No doubt there will be job losses, revised terms of employment and people will be fighting for their jobs. In the cruel world that it is today, you have to be flexbile and make sacrifices.
Controversial, moi?
M.Mouse,
While agreeing with your sentiment I have to say your attitude is going to kill BA. I work for a charter airline (I know most BA pilots look down their noses at us) that does regular UK LCA UK flights and plenty of UK CALGARY flights.
LCA is quite a long day but not too bad, Calgary with two crew over the atlantic is a BREEZE!!!
BA needs to change and change fast or it will become another failed airline!
While agreeing with your sentiment I have to say your attitude is going to kill BA. I work for a charter airline (I know most BA pilots look down their noses at us) that does regular UK LCA UK flights and plenty of UK CALGARY flights.
LCA is quite a long day but not too bad, Calgary with two crew over the atlantic is a BREEZE!!!
BA needs to change and change fast or it will become another failed airline!
If no airlines flew some of the ludicrously long duty days we would all be in the same boat and, therefore, nobody would have a competitive advantage on that score. What has happened is that all operators are forced to compete in a headlong race to the bottom. It has already been highlighted in the USA that fatigue is causing crashes. How long before we start seeing the same in the UK?
I will work as hard as BA require me to in order for the company to survive. It is not my attitude stopping that happening, I have no say over it and am already flying to the maximum I legally can, or very close to it. If less crew on fatiguing sectors is required I will fly them but please don't tell me it is sane or sensible to flog people to the limits.
I might add that I was not lucky enough to be sponsored nor be a career BA pilot. I was a DEP. I worked for a small outfit before BA. I have contemporaries working for Easyjet and Tui? (what was Brittania) and the last thing I, or indeed most of my colleagues, would be is so condescending as to look down our noses at fellow pilots all working damned hard to make a decent living. It is strange (and something I thought before joining BA) that BA pilots do appear to have an air of perceived arrogance. When I joined I was pleasantly surprised to find that they are 99% regular guys and most have a passion for flying like any other pilot working for any other airline.
I agree BA needs to change and change fast, the shame is that it is not just in the simple matter of pilot crewing levels alone where the change is needed.
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ACC switches to 777 for Winter 09
Just noticed that the flight to ACC is going from being operated using a daily 767 to a daily 3 class 777 for Winter 09
Guessing with 8 747's and all the 757's being grounded for Winter 09/10 we will be seeing some more capacity changes coming out in the near future.
Guessing with 8 747's and all the 757's being grounded for Winter 09/10 we will be seeing some more capacity changes coming out in the near future.
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Whilst you might say this is apples and bananas, Ryanair pilots fly 900 hours a year, work a 5 on 4 off roster with 12 hour days thrown in occasionally for good measure and we rarely, if ever, see posts about fatigue from them. It's a rostering problem, not a deficiency in Cap 371.
For those of us old enough to remember pre 371, who all fought long and hard to get 371 implemented against fierce opposition from the airlines, this fuss looks like a childish hissy fit by pampered children. When 371 became law we all applauded the new regulations as being both reasonable and workable.
What has changed so much in BA that they now argue that 371 is inadequate?
I say again, your rostering department is the problem, not 371.
For those of us old enough to remember pre 371, who all fought long and hard to get 371 implemented against fierce opposition from the airlines, this fuss looks like a childish hissy fit by pampered children. When 371 became law we all applauded the new regulations as being both reasonable and workable.
What has changed so much in BA that they now argue that 371 is inadequate?
I say again, your rostering department is the problem, not 371.
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1987 BA shares float at 125p.
2009 BA shares at 157p.
1997 BA shares peak at 700p.
Now what investor will take another flyer with that sort of an investment track record in any company - let alone the airline.
There are two points that must be done to even start to reform BA.
1. Some of the working practices and the unions especial regarding rostering inflexibility.
2.The £3 billion shortfall of assets against liabilities caused by the pension fund. Althought this is closed to new staff, 35,000 BA employees continue to accrue benefits. (Total staff 41,00(?))
Since in the Britain of today, there is no hope of tampering with either of the above one might as well invest one's money in motor racing and continue to fly Virgin.
2009 BA shares at 157p.
1997 BA shares peak at 700p.
Now what investor will take another flyer with that sort of an investment track record in any company - let alone the airline.
There are two points that must be done to even start to reform BA.
1. Some of the working practices and the unions especial regarding rostering inflexibility.
2.The £3 billion shortfall of assets against liabilities caused by the pension fund. Althought this is closed to new staff, 35,000 BA employees continue to accrue benefits. (Total staff 41,00(?))
Since in the Britain of today, there is no hope of tampering with either of the above one might as well invest one's money in motor racing and continue to fly Virgin.
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BA lost the plot a long time ago when they decided to concentrate on Business Class pasengers and treat economy passengers with overt contempt.
The model worked fine up to last year as London is an International business center and there were plenty of business travelers to fill the seats. This is no longer the case.
Worse for them, their planes are configured with so many business class seats that even full economy sections (with decent yields) will not help them now.
The model worked fine up to last year as London is an International business center and there were plenty of business travelers to fill the seats. This is no longer the case.
Worse for them, their planes are configured with so many business class seats that even full economy sections (with decent yields) will not help them now.
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I agree with Rubik101. Your fatigue problems have to be with rostering. At Ryanair, the slate is wiped clean at the end of March. No rolling 900 limit. Last year (April 1st - March 31st) I did 900 hours. This April 1st It started again with a clean slate. So far, 100 hours April & on target for 100 hours this month. Even possible to do 1200 hours in twelve months on our system, but it works fine with lots of time off to charge the batteries.
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BA crews are generally a pleasure to fly with if you are British. If you're not? Well, I'm not best placed to answer that.
I have recently done a lot of flying between London and SE Europe using a variety of airlines. Here's my take on the relative benefits of the various airlines.
LON/IST
TK widebody has it over the BA product, but BA crews are the best.
LON/LCA
CY A330 is the best product. BA aircraft interiors are tired. BA crew are the best.
LON/ATH
OA A340 is the best product, but the catering is very poor and the staff OK at best.
BA 767 comes next.
Then A3 A320. Clean new aircraft interior. Good staff. But Stansted!
Next the BA A320.
Last by a long way the OA 737-400.
The BA 767 product although looking a bit tired stands up well against the competitors' narrow-bodies, but when it comes to a choice between an A330/340 or BA's A320, then it's the other guys every time.
I have recently done a lot of flying between London and SE Europe using a variety of airlines. Here's my take on the relative benefits of the various airlines.
LON/IST
TK widebody has it over the BA product, but BA crews are the best.
LON/LCA
CY A330 is the best product. BA aircraft interiors are tired. BA crew are the best.
LON/ATH
OA A340 is the best product, but the catering is very poor and the staff OK at best.
BA 767 comes next.
Then A3 A320. Clean new aircraft interior. Good staff. But Stansted!
Next the BA A320.
Last by a long way the OA 737-400.
The BA 767 product although looking a bit tired stands up well against the competitors' narrow-bodies, but when it comes to a choice between an A330/340 or BA's A320, then it's the other guys every time.
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Wapses,
I think you have made a good point. BA crews are doing a sterling job with outdated and outmoded equipment. If Willie Walsh would stop making meaningless jestures with his remuneration ( fairly gereous given the recent woeful performance of a business that he manages!) and actually look at his business model he would see the problem.
The business is awash with managers and bureaucrats. The pension fund deficit means that BA cannot afford to invest. The BA fleet is getting older and older and I don't see any new investment on anything like a scale that will make any difference. Some would say that sweating the assets is the way to get more out of the business but this can only go on for a limited period and , once you've done that - what's left. It is shortsighted and will inevitably put BA behind its competitors.
If BA is flying old A/C then thei maintenance and running costs will be higher. Whilst these are offset against the finance charges for a new aircraft I'm not sure if it is a prudent tactic. Airlines that invest in new aircraft tend to perform better than those that don't. Unfortunately, I see too many similarities between PanAm and TWA in their latter years and BA.
I think you have made a good point. BA crews are doing a sterling job with outdated and outmoded equipment. If Willie Walsh would stop making meaningless jestures with his remuneration ( fairly gereous given the recent woeful performance of a business that he manages!) and actually look at his business model he would see the problem.
The business is awash with managers and bureaucrats. The pension fund deficit means that BA cannot afford to invest. The BA fleet is getting older and older and I don't see any new investment on anything like a scale that will make any difference. Some would say that sweating the assets is the way to get more out of the business but this can only go on for a limited period and , once you've done that - what's left. It is shortsighted and will inevitably put BA behind its competitors.
If BA is flying old A/C then thei maintenance and running costs will be higher. Whilst these are offset against the finance charges for a new aircraft I'm not sure if it is a prudent tactic. Airlines that invest in new aircraft tend to perform better than those that don't. Unfortunately, I see too many similarities between PanAm and TWA in their latter years and BA.
Controversial, moi?
Comparison of Ryanair and BA long haul rostering is akin to comparing owning a dog and a camel. All I would say that the apparently idyllic 12 hour days/1200 hours per annum are not seen that way by colleagues I fly with who have actually worked for Ryanair.
BA has funding in place for all the new aircraft currently scheduled for delivery over the next few years. I notice that many airlines are cancelling or deferring theirs.
While some very valid points are being made about BA there is a huge amount selective quoting going on.
BA has funding in place for all the new aircraft currently scheduled for delivery over the next few years. I notice that many airlines are cancelling or deferring theirs.
While some very valid points are being made about BA there is a huge amount selective quoting going on.