Ryanair - 6
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Completely unrelated....but I've noticed a huge increase in problems with hand luggage recently. Everyone is now bring their 10KGs worth in a trolley bag - and the 738 just does not have the room onboard.
It will be interesting to see how FR will combat this. The strict one piece of hand baggage rule is in place - however, if 150+ people have one piece of hand baggage that is a trolley bag, there simply isnt enough room onboard.
It will be interesting to see how FR will combat this. The strict one piece of hand baggage rule is in place - however, if 150+ people have one piece of hand baggage that is a trolley bag, there simply isnt enough room onboard.
Raise the fees for checked-in baggage (saying that there are no plans to change the hand baggage allowance), and then a couple of months later quietly decrease the weight allowance for hand baggage (saying that too much baggage in the cabin is a potential safety risk in case it falls on people's heads as they retrieve it on arrival) ?
If checked-in baggage can be turned into a highly profitable ancillary, there's no reason for FR not to want to handle it
If checked-in baggage can be turned into a highly profitable ancillary, there's no reason for FR not to want to handle it
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The customers of FR are now all folks that would not pay for bagagge. If they are "forced" to pay, they simply wouldn't fly. Folks that need the bagagge are considering other airlines already, as very accurately mentioned above.
Therefore FR, must find another way to raise cash, not ancillary revenue, it is a spent-out invention, not enough at all to sustain an airline.
Therefore FR, must find another way to raise cash, not ancillary revenue, it is a spent-out invention, not enough at all to sustain an airline.
Before you ask, I don't work for FR or any of its suppliers
I'm puzzled as to why everyone is so doom-and-gloom on FR. Yes, there's a Europe-wide recession and people won't be spending freely over the duration of 2009, possibly longer. This however affects all airlines - the big network airlines are feeling the pain as well. In 2001-2, the big US carriers were in very serious trouble with huge losses (there was serious talk of United ceasing flying) - they all survived.
FR has managed to get a very low cost base which is a tremendous asset to have when times get bad. If necessary, planes can be parked in the desert, unprofitable routes can be closed and like any company (much as I dislike the idea), staff numbers in theory could be reduced.
Unlike some LCCs, FR has been highly profitable over the last few years, which means plenty of cash available on which to call in the short term. The next 12 months won't be pretty, but long term debt does not need to be worried about immediately - the prospect of a serious cashflow / liquidity crisis for FR in the next 2 years is low. In 24 months, the economy should be picking up again.
The brand is well known, it's the biggest LCC in Europe, and has a degree of monopolistic control on a number of city-pairs (not airport pairs). Yes, they've made mistakes - like treating customers rather badly - but these are things that can be changed over time. In every industry, companies adapt - it is possible for FR to adapt as well.
I'm puzzled as to why everyone is so doom-and-gloom on FR. Yes, there's a Europe-wide recession and people won't be spending freely over the duration of 2009, possibly longer. This however affects all airlines - the big network airlines are feeling the pain as well. In 2001-2, the big US carriers were in very serious trouble with huge losses (there was serious talk of United ceasing flying) - they all survived.
FR has managed to get a very low cost base which is a tremendous asset to have when times get bad. If necessary, planes can be parked in the desert, unprofitable routes can be closed and like any company (much as I dislike the idea), staff numbers in theory could be reduced.
Unlike some LCCs, FR has been highly profitable over the last few years, which means plenty of cash available on which to call in the short term. The next 12 months won't be pretty, but long term debt does not need to be worried about immediately - the prospect of a serious cashflow / liquidity crisis for FR in the next 2 years is low. In 24 months, the economy should be picking up again.
The brand is well known, it's the biggest LCC in Europe, and has a degree of monopolistic control on a number of city-pairs (not airport pairs). Yes, they've made mistakes - like treating customers rather badly - but these are things that can be changed over time. In every industry, companies adapt - it is possible for FR to adapt as well.
Lehman was an American bank. It did not provide retail services in Europe. If an individual worth less than about £10m asked about depositing money, they would be politely told to go away. If you didn't read the FT or magazines aimed at bankers like Euromoney, you would not have seen their ads. If you didn't work in something financial, there was no reason for Europeans to have heard of Lehman.
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frfly
This is very interesting frfly. I was flying from Edinburgh to Dublin last night and the flight was packed and when I got on I Couldnt find a space for my small case in the over head lockers! Which were jammed!
The baggage hold was emptied in a few mins! Most people not only avoiding the baggage fee, they are much more realistic about what they will need on a holiday!!!
Aer Lingus was excellent smooth flight, friendly staff, full flight and arrival 15 mins ahead of schedule!
Completely unrelated....but I've noticed a huge increase in problems with hand luggage recently. Everyone is now bring their 10KGs worth in a trolley bag - and the 738 just does not have the room onboard.
The baggage hold was emptied in a few mins! Most people not only avoiding the baggage fee, they are much more realistic about what they will need on a holiday!!!
Aer Lingus was excellent smooth flight, friendly staff, full flight and arrival 15 mins ahead of schedule!
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Things might not be in a very bad shape as yet, but as you write...
And that's what we are waiting for (the strategy adjustment). Better prevent than cure, as they say.
And that's what we are waiting for (the strategy adjustment). Better prevent than cure, as they say.
Which is going to cost lesss ?
Making 500 people redundant who work for the Legacy carriers or making 500 people redundant who work for a LCC.
Given average length of service is going to be substantially different on an LCC then any redundancy payments with be substantially smaller.
Profit figures can be adjusted within reason but Cash Flow is a lot harder to adjust.
Making 500 people redundant who work for the Legacy carriers or making 500 people redundant who work for a LCC.
Given average length of service is going to be substantially different on an LCC then any redundancy payments with be substantially smaller.
Profit figures can be adjusted within reason but Cash Flow is a lot harder to adjust.
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EI-BUD - was your flight with EI that had the problems with hand luggage. At Ryanair, a lot of work is being done to ensure all hand baggage fits on the A/C - hence the offload rule should you have more than one piece. However, this is still causing problems and delays and I can only see it getting worse. I think all LCC's are starting to feel the effect of hand luggage volume increase.
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Hand Luggage
As someone with 'no beef' with Ryanair as they have always provided me with the service I paid for (ie. cheap flight, usually on time), I have to say I am waiting for the inevitable £5/€5 slot on the overhead lockers.....
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Come on frfly. This is hypocrisy.
Every time FR needs to conceal extorting money, they invent some "this is still causing problems and delays". If Hand Luggage is causing problems, then passengers are causing more. If they want to get rid of Hand Luggage then, trust me, they will get rid of the passengers as well.
By the way, isn't time to incorporate the one luggage fee in the ticket? Ancillary revenue was silly from the beginning, wouldn't last.
Every time FR needs to conceal extorting money, they invent some "this is still causing problems and delays". If Hand Luggage is causing problems, then passengers are causing more. If they want to get rid of Hand Luggage then, trust me, they will get rid of the passengers as well.
By the way, isn't time to incorporate the one luggage fee in the ticket? Ancillary revenue was silly from the beginning, wouldn't last.
By the way, isn't time to incorporate the one luggage fee in the ticket? Ancillary revenue was silly from the beginning, wouldn't last.
In certain cases there is no chance of avoiding the fees as in the Fuel surcharge but there is a method of getting around most of FR additional charges.
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Peterpaul, nail on the head.
Racedo, you claim you have connection whatsoever with ryanair. The "facts" you present are at serious odds with those known to those employed by ryanair and with analysts tasked at studying ryanair. Can you tell us what gives you such better insight? And again, what is your motive?
Racedo, you claim you have connection whatsoever with ryanair. The "facts" you present are at serious odds with those known to those employed by ryanair and with analysts tasked at studying ryanair. Can you tell us what gives you such better insight? And again, what is your motive?
Camel
FR introduced baggage fees but in actual fact they were only following Flybe who has introduced them a bit earlier.
Everybody waited while the media crapped themselves over it and then introduced them quietly afterwards be it EI / EZY/ BA or others with some slight different variations. FR and EZY charge for Ins unless you unclick the box which seemingly 90% of people do unclick the box for FR anyway.
Even now in the US now they are charging for checking bags, making reservations by phone, processing refunds, paying for children sitting on your lap and whether you wanted an exit row, window seat or aisle seat. They watched what happened in Europe, looked at the figures and then went along with it.
FR break things down to the smallest degree and then asking can you charge for it or does it cost you money to do. Next question is how can the cost to the airline be avoided or how to charge for it. Then you build in lots of revenue earning opportunities but also do things in a way that allows a passenger to avoid the cost if they wish.
Don't need to have ever worked for FR to understand it
Additionally they looked at what the passenger does before they get to the airport, offer CC to book with free flights, offer cheap tickets to get to the airport, car parking partners, car hire when you get there or hotel or apartment / villa.
Whether you like the way its done or not they changed the "we will charge you X from A to B" standard airline model, now giving lots of options which people want depending on the reason for travelling.
Guy travelling on business on Tuesday first thing with laptop and small bag may want speedy boarding, check in online, no luggage, exit row seats as boss is paying. Same guy travelling with wife and kids on Tuesday afternnon may want extra bags, not fussed about seats, may want on board earlier or may not as minimising cost but does need car hire at other end without the hassle of chasing around websites.
You are clever enough to know all of this.
While people keep abusing FR they forget that the business model they using is the envy of other businesses not just other airlines in their ability to sell on and make a return / no cost from even the most mundane of activity....i.e training of potential new hires.
Its why flogging seats at 1p makes money as have done this Tuesday afternoon bit and no other airline in but Hertz had 20 people collecting cars.
Its a very simple model thats executed well which people overlook.
FR introduced baggage fees but in actual fact they were only following Flybe who has introduced them a bit earlier.
Everybody waited while the media crapped themselves over it and then introduced them quietly afterwards be it EI / EZY/ BA or others with some slight different variations. FR and EZY charge for Ins unless you unclick the box which seemingly 90% of people do unclick the box for FR anyway.
Even now in the US now they are charging for checking bags, making reservations by phone, processing refunds, paying for children sitting on your lap and whether you wanted an exit row, window seat or aisle seat. They watched what happened in Europe, looked at the figures and then went along with it.
FR break things down to the smallest degree and then asking can you charge for it or does it cost you money to do. Next question is how can the cost to the airline be avoided or how to charge for it. Then you build in lots of revenue earning opportunities but also do things in a way that allows a passenger to avoid the cost if they wish.
Don't need to have ever worked for FR to understand it
Additionally they looked at what the passenger does before they get to the airport, offer CC to book with free flights, offer cheap tickets to get to the airport, car parking partners, car hire when you get there or hotel or apartment / villa.
Whether you like the way its done or not they changed the "we will charge you X from A to B" standard airline model, now giving lots of options which people want depending on the reason for travelling.
Guy travelling on business on Tuesday first thing with laptop and small bag may want speedy boarding, check in online, no luggage, exit row seats as boss is paying. Same guy travelling with wife and kids on Tuesday afternnon may want extra bags, not fussed about seats, may want on board earlier or may not as minimising cost but does need car hire at other end without the hassle of chasing around websites.
You are clever enough to know all of this.
While people keep abusing FR they forget that the business model they using is the envy of other businesses not just other airlines in their ability to sell on and make a return / no cost from even the most mundane of activity....i.e training of potential new hires.
Its why flogging seats at 1p makes money as have done this Tuesday afternoon bit and no other airline in but Hertz had 20 people collecting cars.
Its a very simple model thats executed well which people overlook.
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In terms of hand luggage - I can assure you this is causing major problems. How have FR combatted this - you get offloaded if you break the rules. They will hav to look into this policy in more detail.
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While people keep abusing FR
...and vice versa. 
It is the very efficient airline, but the vast potential they have is suffering already from the weakening demand. In part it results from the economical crisis, but undoubtedly it's also the result of the dubious Ryanair-image they have created among people and media. They certainly deserve a better one, having in fact pretty decent reliability and tempting prices. The carrier could win MANY new customers by creating more appealing brand and creating a better vision of its future development strategy. Will they?Meanwhile, the Hahn Airport's owner (Fraport) is rumoured to announce a new airport tax (per pax) on Thursday. Will FR react once again by throwing its toys away?
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Don't need to have ever worked for FR to understand it