Ryanair - 6
Join Date: May 2007
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Very recently and for few days I used the Ryanair site to see fares on one or two routes of my interest, over quite a span of dates.
I can positively tell you that they have a very serious rate failure between frond-end and database. In IT world, that's a big no-no.
This is revealed when you 'browse' calendar with "prev/next day" and the fare sometime fails to show, but retry will bring it up. There can be a lot of reason for that, database overload, f*cked up some-stuff, etc.
Not sure what is the rationale is in some up managment to act like "oh yeah, something on our main sales vehicle is f*cked up, but that's OK".
But it's a big statement to make in face of the customer.
I can positively tell you that they have a very serious rate failure between frond-end and database. In IT world, that's a big no-no.
This is revealed when you 'browse' calendar with "prev/next day" and the fare sometime fails to show, but retry will bring it up. There can be a lot of reason for that, database overload, f*cked up some-stuff, etc.
Not sure what is the rationale is in some up managment to act like "oh yeah, something on our main sales vehicle is f*cked up, but that's OK".
But it's a big statement to make in face of the customer.
Website / IT systems
Who actually runs / maintains Ryanair's website ?
Is it done in-house or has it been outsourced to a 3rd party company ?
If it's in house, and systems fail, senior management can shout at IT and make all sorts of *credible* threatening noises about one's future career.
If it's been outsourced to another company, then senior management can shout at a 3rd party provider, but unless the outsourcing contract was drawn up by the most brilliant lawyer, the minions (e.g. DBAs, server teams, etc...) in the 3rd party IT firm don't get paid much, don't really care and may adopt a 'Talk to the hand' attitude.
One can argue that it's good business not to make it too easy for a customer to get a refund. It is absolutely not good business to make it difficult for a customer to purchase your product !
Is it done in-house or has it been outsourced to a 3rd party company ?
If it's in house, and systems fail, senior management can shout at IT and make all sorts of *credible* threatening noises about one's future career.
If it's been outsourced to another company, then senior management can shout at a 3rd party provider, but unless the outsourcing contract was drawn up by the most brilliant lawyer, the minions (e.g. DBAs, server teams, etc...) in the 3rd party IT firm don't get paid much, don't really care and may adopt a 'Talk to the hand' attitude.
One can argue that it's good business not to make it too easy for a customer to get a refund. It is absolutely not good business to make it difficult for a customer to purchase your product !
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Sort of similar experience last week. She Who Must Be Obeyed had to stay on in UK for some extra days last week due to illness so had to rebook for last weekend so we were captive customers for Ryanair with fares obviously on the right side for Ducksie's bottom line etc and by japers it took quite a few goes before the booking software was stable enough for me to finish the booking. It called for patience to say the least and it was not a cheap fare either!
Hope they can sort it out. Computers are very vexing yokes though so I do have some sympathy.
Hope they can sort it out. Computers are very vexing yokes though so I do have some sympathy.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Fuerteventura
Ryanair to Close Fuerteventura Routes From January ’09
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, today (19th Nov) confirmed that it will close all of its routes to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January unless local tourism group AIE honors the commercial agreement it entered into with Ryanair to promote Fuerteventura as a tourist destination.
Since Ryanair began flying to Fuerteventura in 2006, annual passenger numbers have increased over one hundred fold from just 2,000 to over 250,000. However, because of the AIE’s breach of its agreement with Ryanair one of its Dublin flights to Fuerteventura was cancelled from 6th November. Ryanair has now confirmed that it will close its 9 international routes to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January unless the AIE honors its contractual commitments with Ryanair.
Ryanair will close all services to/from Fuerteventura including Birmingham, Bremen, Dublin, Dusseldorf (Weeze), East Midlands, Frankfurt, Liverpool, London and Shannon from 31st January if agreement is not reached on these contract breaches before 6th December.
Ryanair confirmed legal action against AIE and its individual members will continue for breach of agreement.
Speaking today, Ryanair’s Michael Cawley, said:
“Ryanair again calls on the AIE to honor its contractual agreement or lose Ryanair’s flights and traffic to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January 2009. Ryanair’s lowest fares and no fuel surcharge have delivered huge tourism revenues and over 250,000 annual passengers may now be lost to/from Fuerteventura. At a time when Spanish tourism numbers are falling Ryanair’s numbers continues to grow. However, the AIE continues to threaten the livelihoods of the local tourism industry by blatantly reneging on its contractual commitments.
Ryanair has served 30 days notice to the AIE to comply with its contractual agreements. If they refuse to do so then we will have no choice sadly but to end all Ryanair flights to Fuerteventura from 31st January”.
UNLESS LOCAL TOURISM GROUP HONOURS AGREEMENT
Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, today (19th Nov) confirmed that it will close all of its routes to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January unless local tourism group AIE honors the commercial agreement it entered into with Ryanair to promote Fuerteventura as a tourist destination.
Since Ryanair began flying to Fuerteventura in 2006, annual passenger numbers have increased over one hundred fold from just 2,000 to over 250,000. However, because of the AIE’s breach of its agreement with Ryanair one of its Dublin flights to Fuerteventura was cancelled from 6th November. Ryanair has now confirmed that it will close its 9 international routes to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January unless the AIE honors its contractual commitments with Ryanair.
Ryanair will close all services to/from Fuerteventura including Birmingham, Bremen, Dublin, Dusseldorf (Weeze), East Midlands, Frankfurt, Liverpool, London and Shannon from 31st January if agreement is not reached on these contract breaches before 6th December.
Ryanair confirmed legal action against AIE and its individual members will continue for breach of agreement.
Speaking today, Ryanair’s Michael Cawley, said:
“Ryanair again calls on the AIE to honor its contractual agreement or lose Ryanair’s flights and traffic to/from Fuerteventura from 31st January 2009. Ryanair’s lowest fares and no fuel surcharge have delivered huge tourism revenues and over 250,000 annual passengers may now be lost to/from Fuerteventura. At a time when Spanish tourism numbers are falling Ryanair’s numbers continues to grow. However, the AIE continues to threaten the livelihoods of the local tourism industry by blatantly reneging on its contractual commitments.
Ryanair has served 30 days notice to the AIE to comply with its contractual agreements. If they refuse to do so then we will have no choice sadly but to end all Ryanair flights to Fuerteventura from 31st January”.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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The worm will turn with airport companies, i doubt that without tourism/marketing support many of Ryanairs routes are profitable at their pricing level and for some of the routes people will only fly there if the price is so low that it would be rude not to.
Having said all that if Ryanair a have a contract and they have kept to their end of it, then the other party should pay up, it is only a matter of time before some where like EMA or BHX end with just one LoCo, probably EMA, the airport manager.....ess will look more than a bit daft if they have only Ryanair to provide their income, still it would make a nice shopping centre, with lots of parking.
I doubt Leeds airport will fall into the same honey trap with Ryanair
I have allways found the Irish to be lovely soft natured people with a good sense of humour, Ryanairs brashness may make financial sense, but it reflects badly on the Republic
Having said all that if Ryanair a have a contract and they have kept to their end of it, then the other party should pay up, it is only a matter of time before some where like EMA or BHX end with just one LoCo, probably EMA, the airport manager.....ess will look more than a bit daft if they have only Ryanair to provide their income, still it would make a nice shopping centre, with lots of parking.
I doubt Leeds airport will fall into the same honey trap with Ryanair
I have allways found the Irish to be lovely soft natured people with a good sense of humour, Ryanairs brashness may make financial sense, but it reflects badly on the Republic
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Nevertheless, it looks like not only FR is throwing the toys away, it could be also thrown out of some places itself. The Spanish speakers can read here why Ryanair might soon be expelled from PMI airport (slot suspensions and other bans). They say Ryanair is violating some agreements as well...
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Yield analysts at Ryanair are VERY good at their jobs
The constant fluctuation in Ryanair fares €1 one day €40 three days later and back to €5 the next week according to demand is brilliantly tactical.
FR: does an ailrine only depends on RM??? Ryanair stengths are not the RM for sure. They started at the perfect time but don't forget that their success is mainly fbased on two factors: low salaries (especillay of the crews) and subsidies from the airport (that are huges as many airports only haver yanair to continue to be alive)
Free flights
Ryanair at the moment are running a near-free flights promotion. While not strictly free, flights cost 1 penny / 1 eurocent, and there is none of the extra taxes / charges / fees business.
I'm curious as to how such a promotion affects the stats that are shown in the quarterly results presentation.
If one has an Electron card, a rational consumer would make many bookings for flights in the full expectation that most of the bookings would lapse unused.
After all, if one is undecided about whether to make a trip, it's worth making the booking anyway if it costs 2 pence and takes 2 minutes. One can always add things like luggage entitlements via the website nearer the date of the trip if you actually decide to fly. I've made multiple flight bookings for the same date - I can thus decide on the day where to go based on weather forecast.
Ryanair are presumably happy because they get the publicity boost without having to actually fly many people anywhere or pay Govt taxes / airport charges.
Most other airlines won't sell below the cost of Govt tax, thus adding friction to pax reservations and avoiding mass unused bookings.
Ryanair's monthly pax figures are reported as number of seats purchased rather than pax flown on the basis that refunds are not given, thus the 1p promotions may cause overstatement of the number of pax and load factor. Further, the reported average fare will decrease because of all the 1p flights. Stats thus look great but are shown through rose-tinted glass.
Does anyone have any data to say how this kind of promotion with resultant non-utilised bookings affects quarterly statistics ?
I'm curious as to how such a promotion affects the stats that are shown in the quarterly results presentation.
If one has an Electron card, a rational consumer would make many bookings for flights in the full expectation that most of the bookings would lapse unused.
After all, if one is undecided about whether to make a trip, it's worth making the booking anyway if it costs 2 pence and takes 2 minutes. One can always add things like luggage entitlements via the website nearer the date of the trip if you actually decide to fly. I've made multiple flight bookings for the same date - I can thus decide on the day where to go based on weather forecast.
Ryanair are presumably happy because they get the publicity boost without having to actually fly many people anywhere or pay Govt taxes / airport charges.
Most other airlines won't sell below the cost of Govt tax, thus adding friction to pax reservations and avoiding mass unused bookings.
Ryanair's monthly pax figures are reported as number of seats purchased rather than pax flown on the basis that refunds are not given, thus the 1p promotions may cause overstatement of the number of pax and load factor. Further, the reported average fare will decrease because of all the 1p flights. Stats thus look great but are shown through rose-tinted glass.
Does anyone have any data to say how this kind of promotion with resultant non-utilised bookings affects quarterly statistics ?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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However it still costs the airline if you fly or not.
If you fly they lose £9.99 before their staff even arrive to fly the plane. If you don't fly it still costs them to operate the flight.
They are very good at attracting passengers and to some of the airports they fly to they pretty much avoid airport fees which are quite a big chunck on their expenses.
However, when you fly with them you will want somewhere to stay. You will also want a car to go with it. You'll need to insure your trip. You will also want to take bags with you. You have to check these bags in. You want something to eat on the plane and you want something to buy from 'duty free.' You will also try your luck and buy a scratchcard.
There are a lot of things they can make money off of you from without you even realising. You have bought the flight for 1p - you'll probably end up spending a lot more than that.
Personally I always go to Barcelona to watch the football in January. It usually costs me 2p return. To be honest I have to pay 21 euros this time round to get from the Girona to Barcelona but apart from that my trip from home to the Barcelona will cost me 21 euros and 2 pence sterling (excluding petrol to the airport in England!)
What makes Christmas? I think it's the Ryanair sales!
If you fly they lose £9.99 before their staff even arrive to fly the plane. If you don't fly it still costs them to operate the flight.
They are very good at attracting passengers and to some of the airports they fly to they pretty much avoid airport fees which are quite a big chunck on their expenses.
However, when you fly with them you will want somewhere to stay. You will also want a car to go with it. You'll need to insure your trip. You will also want to take bags with you. You have to check these bags in. You want something to eat on the plane and you want something to buy from 'duty free.' You will also try your luck and buy a scratchcard.
There are a lot of things they can make money off of you from without you even realising. You have bought the flight for 1p - you'll probably end up spending a lot more than that.
Personally I always go to Barcelona to watch the football in January. It usually costs me 2p return. To be honest I have to pay 21 euros this time round to get from the Girona to Barcelona but apart from that my trip from home to the Barcelona will cost me 21 euros and 2 pence sterling (excluding petrol to the airport in England!)
What makes Christmas? I think it's the Ryanair sales!
However, when you fly with them you will want somewhere to stay. You will also want a car to go with it. You'll need to insure your trip. You will also want to take bags with you. You have to check these bags in. You want something to eat on the plane and you want something to buy from 'duty free.' You will also try your luck and buy a scratchcard.
There are a lot of things they can make money off of you from without you even realising. You have bought the flight for 1p - you'll probably end up spending a lot more than that.
There are a lot of things they can make money off of you from without you even realising. You have bought the flight for 1p - you'll probably end up spending a lot more than that.
As much as people bitch they ignore the obvious that Ryanair and other LCC are bringing in money to be spent locally on local services often in areas that central governments have ignored because a Capital city or major city is more important.
Economic growth and jobs come in many forms but putting €/£10 million of EU into an area to create jobs sounds great but it only works if they can be sustainable and provide a huge return.
Putting €/£ 500,000 into attracting airlines to underutilised and already paid for airports attracts people who because they have arrived cheaply are more willing to spend money locally on local services. The money stays in the economy locally and is much more effective than just another govt handout on mak work schemes because it is attracting new people into an area.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Holland
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This new routes will be accomodated by a new(6th) based aircraft in Charleroi.
However they will close all routes from Maastricht due to the recently introduced ADP tax in Holland, that was such a good idea of the government
However they will close all routes from Maastricht due to the recently introduced ADP tax in Holland, that was such a good idea of the government
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Who knows, more frequency's for existing routes ex-CRL, more new routes ex-CRL or routes that will be operated by CRL based aircraft instead of non-CRL based aircraft, so new routes can be opened from other bases. Time will tell.
As for Eindhoven, it is certainly interesting. If there's nothing in the media today I think I will give them a call about the situation, they are usually quite open. But I still have the feeling it doesn't look to bad. As it is located in a richer part of Holland so the yields are probably better then in Maastricht. Furthermore as the airport is located a bit further away from the border(and closer to rest of the country) then Maastricht which means there's probably a smaller amount of people that "leak" across the border.
And the GRO route should perform better now because the passengers have to go somewhere, and some of them will go to Eindhoven.
As for Eindhoven, it is certainly interesting. If there's nothing in the media today I think I will give them a call about the situation, they are usually quite open. But I still have the feeling it doesn't look to bad. As it is located in a richer part of Holland so the yields are probably better then in Maastricht. Furthermore as the airport is located a bit further away from the border(and closer to rest of the country) then Maastricht which means there's probably a smaller amount of people that "leak" across the border.
And the GRO route should perform better now because the passengers have to go somewhere, and some of them will go to Eindhoven.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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MUFC FAN
If the passenger does not fly I believe it does not cost the airline. The reason I believe I might be wrong but Ryanair only pay for the actual numbers of pax who travel. So if 10 people dont turn up then the company keep the money. If you dont travel you are entitled to claim the government tax back. However Ryanair get away with this by charging an admin fee. As I say I might be wrong however this what I believe the system to be.
If the passenger does not fly I believe it does not cost the airline. The reason I believe I might be wrong but Ryanair only pay for the actual numbers of pax who travel. So if 10 people dont turn up then the company keep the money. If you dont travel you are entitled to claim the government tax back. However Ryanair get away with this by charging an admin fee. As I say I might be wrong however this what I believe the system to be.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Sorry, what I meant to say was it still costs the airline because they still have to pay for operating the flight (staff, ATC etc.)
They will save money on ADP and fuel but it would still cost them money as the flight would go with or without them.
They will save money on ADP and fuel but it would still cost them money as the flight would go with or without them.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Free seats is just another massive lie to shareholders
As everybody knows on this forum, ryanair publishes booked LF. But on their annual reports, they used to publish their Flown load factor (so only once a year!), for example here for FY2007, page 6:
http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...tatement07.pdf
In 2007, they had massive free free flights sales, even during the week-ends and during the summer, and of course it massively (but artifically) increased their load factor. "Curiously"; for the first time in their history, they haven't published, even in their annual statement, their flown load factor (which would be massively below last year one). I f you take the same report fy2008, page 6, I still don't find their flown load factor:
http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...20F%202008.pdf
Another lie: according their financial reports, their new bases are all working well (lol), so why did they close VLC if it was working well???
As everybody knows on this forum, ryanair publishes booked LF. But on their annual reports, they used to publish their Flown load factor (so only once a year!), for example here for FY2007, page 6:
http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...tatement07.pdf
In 2007, they had massive free free flights sales, even during the week-ends and during the summer, and of course it massively (but artifically) increased their load factor. "Curiously"; for the first time in their history, they haven't published, even in their annual statement, their flown load factor (which would be massively below last year one). I f you take the same report fy2008, page 6, I still don't find their flown load factor:
http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...20F%202008.pdf
Another lie: according their financial reports, their new bases are all working well (lol), so why did they close VLC if it was working well???
MUFC - as Ryanair is scheduled rather than charter, the flight has to go ahead regardless - irrespective of the number of bookings (unless cancelled over a month in advance). Thus, the cost of crew, navigation, etc... are all sunk costs. No-show pax should impose very little additional cost on Ryanair compared to no booking at all.
h&s - I agree that the free seats business distorts the message given to shareholders in terms of load factor, number of pax and average fare. However, I'm curious as to how big a distortion this actually is.
If out of 50 million reported pax, there were only 10,000 no-show zero-fare bookings, most shareholders would consider this largely irrelevant. If on the other hand, the distortion is over 1 million no-show zero-fare bookings, the distortion in figures reported becomes more significant.
While the accounts need to be signed off by auditors as giving a true representation of the company's position, I suspect traffic figures do not legally need the same level of formal sign-off.
Does anyone happen to have data as to how relevant this distortion actually is ?
h&s - I agree that the free seats business distorts the message given to shareholders in terms of load factor, number of pax and average fare. However, I'm curious as to how big a distortion this actually is.
If out of 50 million reported pax, there were only 10,000 no-show zero-fare bookings, most shareholders would consider this largely irrelevant. If on the other hand, the distortion is over 1 million no-show zero-fare bookings, the distortion in figures reported becomes more significant.
While the accounts need to be signed off by auditors as giving a true representation of the company's position, I suspect traffic figures do not legally need the same level of formal sign-off.
Does anyone happen to have data as to how relevant this distortion actually is ?