LUTON - 6
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Switzerland ... oh wait: Swaziland
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm really curious how much time this collapse scenario will happen again and again until someone realize that
1. winter can be, is and will be snowy even in LTN.
2. a 30 pages long winter procedure worth nothing at all if your equipment is 2 garden tractors and one useless sprayer.
For the ones always citing economic reasons: did anyone make calculations about this? The cost of that 3-4 days chaos happened twice only this year equals to at least 5 shiny new ploughs. Oh wait: that is the money of airlines, not the airport? Then it's fine, sit back and wait for the next round...
1. winter can be, is and will be snowy even in LTN.
2. a 30 pages long winter procedure worth nothing at all if your equipment is 2 garden tractors and one useless sprayer.
For the ones always citing economic reasons: did anyone make calculations about this? The cost of that 3-4 days chaos happened twice only this year equals to at least 5 shiny new ploughs. Oh wait: that is the money of airlines, not the airport? Then it's fine, sit back and wait for the next round...
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reckon the lost revenue per day, in landing charges and pax fees to be in the order of 120k per day. Economic argument does not stack up, the loss of migrating passengers to other airports, and the bad press, probably lost the guts of a million in the last week. It is a disgrace. Aer Arann put on extra flights, and got all their pax home, again, they put the locos to shame!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Liverpool & Luton
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SNOW Pt 2
Quote "a 30 pages long winter procedure worth nothing at all if your equipment is 2 garden tractors and one useless sprayer..."
Again:- "The Attack of the Armchair Airport Operations Managers"...
Merry Christmas to everyone incidentally!
Fast Eddie
Again:- "The Attack of the Armchair Airport Operations Managers"...
Merry Christmas to everyone incidentally!
Fast Eddie
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern spain
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where the hell do you get those figures from - lost up to one million in revenue donīt make me laugh. Practically all the passengers which flights were cancelled managed to get on other flights from Luton - the bulk of the revenue lost was on diverted aircraft. Do not forget easyJet cancelled a large number of flights one morning even though the iarport was fully operational mainly because they ran out of crews to operate them (they got rid of a lot of flight crews for the winter - donīt need you through the winter old boy) and paid the price. You cannot blame the airport authorities for that. Totally agree with Eddie Grinley armchair airport operations managers again.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oh Cavey
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a load of Rubbish Compton3bravo..... You say that most passengers got away on other flights from Luton.... That is not true, most flights were jam packed in the days running up to christmas and certainly at the best had a dozen or so seats in the case of easyjet. Why do you think wizzair/aer arran put on extra flights and easyjet increased a/c size on a few departures ?
easyJet cancelled a number of flights one morning as a DIRECT knock on from the disruption events of the previous day with the diversions and delays being experienced causing flight crew out of hours... even a generous amount of standy crew would not be able to cope with the amount of disruption over repeated number of days. Dont forget that a lot of the destination stations in northern and eastern europe were suffering and the cancellations/delays were not purely caused by what was happening in the UK.
When it comes to the amount of money lost.... it runs into a large figure... Just think of all the hotel nights required to accomodate passengers from cancelled flights. under EU law they are legally entitled to a hotel for the entire length of time that they await seats on the next available flight. That maybe one day, it may be fourteen! either way the airline has to pay in the end. Then there will be all the transportation costs of getting passengers to/from diverted aircraft and to/from flights from other airports that had the only available seats to fly on left before christmas. Then add in lost revenue from catering/sales/fees at the airport.... at the busiest time of the winter. I'm not going into commercially sensitive information but it amounts to a considerable amount of money !
easyJet cancelled a number of flights one morning as a DIRECT knock on from the disruption events of the previous day with the diversions and delays being experienced causing flight crew out of hours... even a generous amount of standy crew would not be able to cope with the amount of disruption over repeated number of days. Dont forget that a lot of the destination stations in northern and eastern europe were suffering and the cancellations/delays were not purely caused by what was happening in the UK.
When it comes to the amount of money lost.... it runs into a large figure... Just think of all the hotel nights required to accomodate passengers from cancelled flights. under EU law they are legally entitled to a hotel for the entire length of time that they await seats on the next available flight. That maybe one day, it may be fourteen! either way the airline has to pay in the end. Then there will be all the transportation costs of getting passengers to/from diverted aircraft and to/from flights from other airports that had the only available seats to fly on left before christmas. Then add in lost revenue from catering/sales/fees at the airport.... at the busiest time of the winter. I'm not going into commercially sensitive information but it amounts to a considerable amount of money !
Caveman,
I don't think airlines have to provide hotac if the cause of the delay is outside their control. I was delayed 75 hours by an ATC computer breakdown last year and EZY rebooked me but didn't recompense my Ģ500 hotel bill (for two people in Palma at the height of the season with an 0130 check-in time!).
I don't think airlines have to provide hotac if the cause of the delay is outside their control. I was delayed 75 hours by an ATC computer breakdown last year and EZY rebooked me but didn't recompense my Ģ500 hotel bill (for two people in Palma at the height of the season with an 0130 check-in time!).
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern spain
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Caotain Cavenman - You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine - we beg to differ. Have you tried to get a hotel bill from a low cost carrier - out of my hands mate snow - gift of God old boy sorry.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps somebody in the know can sort this debate out once and for all.
Exactly how much snow clearing equipment does LTN have?
Is it comparable to other Airports of similar size.? Can the equipment be multi use.?
How many staff are trained to use it and usually available?
And finally, how long given its stopped snowing, should it take to clear a 2000mtr runway given standard amount of clearing equipment?
Exactly how much snow clearing equipment does LTN have?
Is it comparable to other Airports of similar size.? Can the equipment be multi use.?
How many staff are trained to use it and usually available?
And finally, how long given its stopped snowing, should it take to clear a 2000mtr runway given standard amount of clearing equipment?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oh Cavey
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eu law has changed since last year LGS/compton, now you are entitled to a hotel room/meals/transport to be provided by an airline until a seat becomes available. In exceptional cases of mass disruption when organising a huge number of hotel rooms is near impossible, passengers are entitled to get a refund of hotel bills of a reasonable nature to be paid.
In answer to your questions about claiming hotel bills from airlines then YES I have first hand experience on both sides of the fence.......
Yes all passengers disrupted over the last with EZY were given hotac or given the option of organising their own and claiming back.
The only thing that is not claimable is specific flight compensation for a delay of over 3 hours or for a cancellation as the reason was weather which is outside of airline control/act of nature or god.
In answer to your questions about claiming hotel bills from airlines then YES I have first hand experience on both sides of the fence.......
Yes all passengers disrupted over the last with EZY were given hotac or given the option of organising their own and claiming back.
The only thing that is not claimable is specific flight compensation for a delay of over 3 hours or for a cancellation as the reason was weather which is outside of airline control/act of nature or god.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oh Cavey
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SASKATOON999 - Of course you are right, airlines can cancel flights for any reason but they ARE under an obligation to offer hotac even in unforseen circumstances. If passengers still want to travel to their destination then the Airline is obliged to get them there either on their own airline or refunding an alternative method of travel.
Just talk to the AUC if you dont believe me. If a flight is cancelled less than 14 days before departure... that is an on the day cancellation (not a pre planned cancellation) then passengers are entitled to hotel accomodation/meals until their new departure and 2 free telephone calls.
Just talk to the AUC if you dont believe me. If a flight is cancelled less than 14 days before departure... that is an on the day cancellation (not a pre planned cancellation) then passengers are entitled to hotel accomodation/meals until their new departure and 2 free telephone calls.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
compton3....your are wrong, majority of pax could not get alternative flights ex LTN, as most of the flights were full pre Christmas, some were accomodated at other airports. On one of the big days of disruption, handling agents for Easy and Ryanair announced withn minutes of each other that the desks were closing, everybody was to leave the airport, and contact the airline via the website to re-book. Within seconds of that a large police contingent emerged for crowd control. Yes, customer service in the modern era. The core problem is the inability of the airport to cope due lack of equipment.
The direct monetary loss to LTN of the last week was probably in the region of 300k. The induced loss however was far greater, the bad press (actually prohibited TV crews from filming inside terminal), disrupted pax who will chose to use an alternative airport in future, and you have armed airlines a reason to dilute services, the loss of peak time revenue, don't forget, breaking even (or achieving budgeted losses) in December for any ailrine is predicated upon Christmas week.
Yes, it is winter, yes LTN is on top of a hill, yes it did snow, and yes it is time to purchase proper some proper snow clearing equipment!
The direct monetary loss to LTN of the last week was probably in the region of 300k. The induced loss however was far greater, the bad press (actually prohibited TV crews from filming inside terminal), disrupted pax who will chose to use an alternative airport in future, and you have armed airlines a reason to dilute services, the loss of peak time revenue, don't forget, breaking even (or achieving budgeted losses) in December for any ailrine is predicated upon Christmas week.
Yes, it is winter, yes LTN is on top of a hill, yes it did snow, and yes it is time to purchase proper some proper snow clearing equipment!
Compton3bravo,
Wrong.
eJ did not "run out of crews" that morning. We all turned up for work expecting to fly, but were used to fetch out of position aircraft that had to divert due to closed airports that night.
The following morning most flights suffered long delays caused by the 45 minute queue from the Holiday Inn roundabout to the car parks. And then there was the 1 hour wait for the deicing truck. To be fair, this year we didn't have the total stoppage caused by the lack of refuelling (too slippery last year).
As flight crew, we get to see first hand how different airports around Europe cope with winter weather. Without a shadow of doubt there is one that is in a totally different league to all the others. Sadly a lower league, and it is...
Luton.
Wrong.
Do not forget easyJet cancelled a large number of flights one morning even though the iarport was fully operational mainly because they ran out of crews to operate them (they got rid of a lot of flight crews for the winter - donīt need you through the winter old boy) and paid the price. You cannot blame the airport authorities for that.
The following morning most flights suffered long delays caused by the 45 minute queue from the Holiday Inn roundabout to the car parks. And then there was the 1 hour wait for the deicing truck. To be fair, this year we didn't have the total stoppage caused by the lack of refuelling (too slippery last year).
As flight crew, we get to see first hand how different airports around Europe cope with winter weather. Without a shadow of doubt there is one that is in a totally different league to all the others. Sadly a lower league, and it is...
Luton.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see a passenger has wrote to the Herald and Post complaining that the airport management has wrecked his family Christmas when it took an hour and a quarter to get from the long stay car park to the terminal for a 07:30 departure. According to the passenger this was caused by a faulty car park bus that wouldnt work, then a coach driver who was more interested in drinking his tea than driving the replacement car park coach and finally the Christmas queue to the terminal caused in his opinion by drivers dropping people off on the roundabout rather then spend a Ģ1 to exit the drop off area.
This meant that his family of 4 were not reunited with his parents for a Christmas break.
Looking at his published address, which is Barnet, North London, the 27 mile journey via the M1 should have taken 38 minutes according to Google maps. Seeing that he claims he left his house at 04:30 in the morning on empty roads I think his complaints are reasonable.
This meant that his family of 4 were not reunited with his parents for a Christmas break.
Looking at his published address, which is Barnet, North London, the 27 mile journey via the M1 should have taken 38 minutes according to Google maps. Seeing that he claims he left his house at 04:30 in the morning on empty roads I think his complaints are reasonable.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North of Watford
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Length of time from Long Stay to Terminal
Whilst sympathising with the family that weren't reunited for Christmas, and agreeing that the time alleged was too long, it's also true that people just do not leave home early enough for their flights. Most airports now need longer for parking, transfer, check-in, security procedures, and boarding than was the case years ago. There is no lack of info making that plain on airline and airport websites. Pax need to brief themselves well on this.
Anyway, Happy New Year to all LTN posters.
Anyway, Happy New Year to all LTN posters.
aceatco, retired
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: one airshow or another
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Incoming . . . . . !
05/16:53: Very Heavy Snowfall - London & South East England
EMERGENCY Warning of Very Heavy Snowfall for London & South East England valid from 2000 Tue 05 Jan to 1100 Wed 06 Jan
05/16:53: Very Heavy Snowfall - London & South East England
EMERGENCY Warning of Very Heavy Snowfall for London & South East England valid from 2000 Tue 05 Jan to 1100 Wed 06 Jan