LUTON - 6
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Agreed.I would be interested to know which areas will be prioritised first.
Personally i would build the dual carriage way first and get the access sorted out.
Good news about Air Blue but I wonder if it is short term until they get the LHR slot.Hopefully not!
Personally i would build the dual carriage way first and get the access sorted out.
Good news about Air Blue but I wonder if it is short term until they get the LHR slot.Hopefully not!
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The airport are describing the alterations to the internal layout of the terminal as minor but I would call it major.
Page 28 has diagrams of the old and new layout which takes a bit of working out but these are the key bits.
The passenger search area is being moved downstairs from around where the pubic wait for arriving passengers at the moment right through to WH Smiths in the main terminal which will move.
The landside retail areas will move to what is now the bus and coach station which will be built on giving a new entrance to the terminal and also hiding the old terminal.
The existing escalators will become airside with new shops and seating being built in the the old security area and continuing into the new building. The existing walkway from security to the existing shops will no longer be used by passengers who will use a new walkway which will contain shops at the front of the terminal.
The size and layout of the existing airside shops will be changed to allow access to the new pier with the original reserved access point being abandoned for larger shops.
Retail outlets will be built into the piers with the original pier being made a little wider in places.
Arrivals will be modified to allow for 9 baggage belts which will in part use part of the abandoned old terminal.
The proposed total gross internal floor area for the development is approximately 85,960 sq.m which equates to a 25% increase.
Page 28 has diagrams of the old and new layout which takes a bit of working out but these are the key bits.
The passenger search area is being moved downstairs from around where the pubic wait for arriving passengers at the moment right through to WH Smiths in the main terminal which will move.
The landside retail areas will move to what is now the bus and coach station which will be built on giving a new entrance to the terminal and also hiding the old terminal.
The existing escalators will become airside with new shops and seating being built in the the old security area and continuing into the new building. The existing walkway from security to the existing shops will no longer be used by passengers who will use a new walkway which will contain shops at the front of the terminal.
The size and layout of the existing airside shops will be changed to allow access to the new pier with the original reserved access point being abandoned for larger shops.
Retail outlets will be built into the piers with the original pier being made a little wider in places.
Arrivals will be modified to allow for 9 baggage belts which will in part use part of the abandoned old terminal.
The proposed total gross internal floor area for the development is approximately 85,960 sq.m which equates to a 25% increase.
Last edited by LTNman; 3rd Sep 2012 at 22:16.
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25% increase does not sound a lot but I assume this includes current areas not used from the old terminal so perhaps 40% in real terms?
As Luton almost hit 11M at one point then this would be enough for 15M and a more efficient space usage hopefully things will flow a little better at peak times if this all comes about.
Lets hope this all goes well if planning approved and the pain of works is done without too much disruption.
As Luton almost hit 11M at one point then this would be enough for 15M and a more efficient space usage hopefully things will flow a little better at peak times if this all comes about.
Lets hope this all goes well if planning approved and the pain of works is done without too much disruption.
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Pleased the new masterplans have been released...
They are very much as expected, nothing too exciting and just essential expansion to keep the airport ticking over till 2030, when the current operator license with Abertis runs out.
Also this seems to be realistic expansion for an airport primarily served by LCC that demand value. Shame the odd airbridge or two are not being considered!
I am surprised we saw no additional apron being added to the plans south of the existing one on the eastern side of the airport where the new southern pier will be added.
Its going to be a tight squeeze increasing the number of parking spaces from 6-8 on this section of apron. But when originally built it was meant for aircraft like 767's and suppose eight aircraft is realistic if used by A320's and 737's.
Also they mark out how there is going to be new parking in front of the Thomson and Monarch hangars for 8 aircraft. If these are heavily used, this will require a lot of busing too and from the terminal. Also I wonder how these companies feel about having their hangars entrances blocked. If aircraft maintenance is taking place overnight in these hangars, this potentially causes problems for aircraft that are night stopping.
One area I am disappointed to see not being addressed, is the connections between the terminal and railway station. I think the airport needs a dedicated link, that doesn't need to use the public roads between the two. This is a major gripe with airlines and passengers.
I am thinking something along the lines of a monorail or cable car to bring passengers up the mountain from the station to the airport. That brings them over the old westerly apron and drops them off and docks in the terminal. We need a seamless transfer between both transport hubs.
I always hear people complaining about having to get the bus, but passengers at Gatwick (using the North terminal) and Birmingham airports train station is a similar distance from the terminal to the station and they do not think twice about it.
The gripe is the reliability of the buses, that are supposed to be every 10 minutes, but regularly you can wait 20-30 minutes depending on the traffic, then have to wait for the bus to fill and can take up to about 10-15 mins in rush hour.
I don't think there is any cheap option available, to address this issue...
They are very much as expected, nothing too exciting and just essential expansion to keep the airport ticking over till 2030, when the current operator license with Abertis runs out.
Also this seems to be realistic expansion for an airport primarily served by LCC that demand value. Shame the odd airbridge or two are not being considered!
I am surprised we saw no additional apron being added to the plans south of the existing one on the eastern side of the airport where the new southern pier will be added.
Its going to be a tight squeeze increasing the number of parking spaces from 6-8 on this section of apron. But when originally built it was meant for aircraft like 767's and suppose eight aircraft is realistic if used by A320's and 737's.
Also they mark out how there is going to be new parking in front of the Thomson and Monarch hangars for 8 aircraft. If these are heavily used, this will require a lot of busing too and from the terminal. Also I wonder how these companies feel about having their hangars entrances blocked. If aircraft maintenance is taking place overnight in these hangars, this potentially causes problems for aircraft that are night stopping.
One area I am disappointed to see not being addressed, is the connections between the terminal and railway station. I think the airport needs a dedicated link, that doesn't need to use the public roads between the two. This is a major gripe with airlines and passengers.
I am thinking something along the lines of a monorail or cable car to bring passengers up the mountain from the station to the airport. That brings them over the old westerly apron and drops them off and docks in the terminal. We need a seamless transfer between both transport hubs.
I always hear people complaining about having to get the bus, but passengers at Gatwick (using the North terminal) and Birmingham airports train station is a similar distance from the terminal to the station and they do not think twice about it.
The gripe is the reliability of the buses, that are supposed to be every 10 minutes, but regularly you can wait 20-30 minutes depending on the traffic, then have to wait for the bus to fill and can take up to about 10-15 mins in rush hour.
I don't think there is any cheap option available, to address this issue...
Last edited by gilesdavies; 4th Sep 2012 at 13:35.
giles - the reason why people feel the need to get the bus, is that it's such a pedestrian unfriendly route.
At Gatwick the transit between terminals goes every few minutes (i.e. much higher frequency than at Luton), and you get to wait in a clean, well-lit, spacious location sheltered from the weather. The cost is also rolled into the charges paid by the airline to the airport so to the passenger it appears to be free. Arrive into Luton late in the evening on the way home, and it's pretty grim waiting outside for the bus to the station to show up. Oh yeah, and the bus at Luton costs £1.50 per person each way to go about a mile.
Ideally, there would be an exit from the train station onto Kimpton Road but it doesn't seem to exist.
At the train station exit, there are no signs to the airport. Walk past the station car park towards the roundabout, and you see a road sign to the right which is the wrong direction for pedestrians (but the correct direction for vehicles given the one-way traffic system)
Walking up towards the airport, there are stretches with no proper pavement, along a road with 2 (or is it 3?) lanes in each direction moving at speed - you find yourself either walking on mud or in the road.
When you pass through the tunnel next to the hotels, you find yourself walking next to a crash barrier. Finally, when you exit the tunnel and reach the roundabout just before the bus terminus, you typically find yourself having to climb over one or more fences
I've walked from station to airport and back a few times, but only with a small backpack as hand luggage weighing a few kg - takes me about 20-25 mins in either direction.
With a suitcase or children in tow, it's impossible to do remotely safely.
For people travelling between train station and airport at Luton, there is pretty much no option except the bus.
At Gatwick the transit between terminals goes every few minutes (i.e. much higher frequency than at Luton), and you get to wait in a clean, well-lit, spacious location sheltered from the weather. The cost is also rolled into the charges paid by the airline to the airport so to the passenger it appears to be free. Arrive into Luton late in the evening on the way home, and it's pretty grim waiting outside for the bus to the station to show up. Oh yeah, and the bus at Luton costs £1.50 per person each way to go about a mile.
Ideally, there would be an exit from the train station onto Kimpton Road but it doesn't seem to exist.
At the train station exit, there are no signs to the airport. Walk past the station car park towards the roundabout, and you see a road sign to the right which is the wrong direction for pedestrians (but the correct direction for vehicles given the one-way traffic system)
Walking up towards the airport, there are stretches with no proper pavement, along a road with 2 (or is it 3?) lanes in each direction moving at speed - you find yourself either walking on mud or in the road.
When you pass through the tunnel next to the hotels, you find yourself walking next to a crash barrier. Finally, when you exit the tunnel and reach the roundabout just before the bus terminus, you typically find yourself having to climb over one or more fences
I've walked from station to airport and back a few times, but only with a small backpack as hand luggage weighing a few kg - takes me about 20-25 mins in either direction.
With a suitcase or children in tow, it's impossible to do remotely safely.
For people travelling between train station and airport at Luton, there is pretty much no option except the bus.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 4th Sep 2012 at 14:28.
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Ideally, there would be an exit from the train station onto Kimpton Road but it doesn't seem to exist.
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'Master Plan'
TSR2, you will be glad to hear that yes there are many taxis at the Parkway train station. Powerjet, I believe you are correct in relation to the new walkway from Parkway station to Kimpton Road.
With regards to the new 'master plan' it is of my view that the changes to take place are merely cosmetic. I believe that the taxiways should extend to the full length of the runway and that LLAL should impress this upon LLAOL prior to the official planning application.
The 'extra' aircraft stands concern me also, as on one hand the 'master plan' hi-lights new stands to accommodate more flights whilst on the other hand, the stands appear to be planned exclusively for the likes of Ocean Sky and other handling agents. Then they plan to position the aircraft much closer to each other which might slow down ground handling equipment?
All in all, very dissappointing from my personal point of view, with the exception being that of Air Blue who may be introducing a new service during the next few months.
With regards to the new 'master plan' it is of my view that the changes to take place are merely cosmetic. I believe that the taxiways should extend to the full length of the runway and that LLAL should impress this upon LLAOL prior to the official planning application.
The 'extra' aircraft stands concern me also, as on one hand the 'master plan' hi-lights new stands to accommodate more flights whilst on the other hand, the stands appear to be planned exclusively for the likes of Ocean Sky and other handling agents. Then they plan to position the aircraft much closer to each other which might slow down ground handling equipment?
All in all, very dissappointing from my personal point of view, with the exception being that of Air Blue who may be introducing a new service during the next few months.
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davidjohnson6 wrote
The station is around a mile away. Who would walk it even if there was a friendly route
It does exist and it is finished but it hasn't been opened yet.
giles - the reason why people feel the need to get the bus, is that it's such a pedestrian unfriendly route.
Ideally, there would be an exit from the train station onto Kimpton Road but it doesn't seem to exist.
Last edited by LTNman; 4th Sep 2012 at 16:50.
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Lee Baker Street wrote
Think you are being a bit hard there. New taxiways, extensions to the terminal, new dual carriageway into the airport, new road layout in the CTA, new pier and better use of the stands.
Saying all that I think the new pier should have been extended to the south apron as low cost airlines prefer contact stands rather than busses.
With regards to the new 'master plan' it is of my view that the changes to take place are merely cosmetic.
Saying all that I think the new pier should have been extended to the south apron as low cost airlines prefer contact stands rather than busses.
Last edited by LTNman; 4th Sep 2012 at 16:49.
The station is around a mile away. Who would walk it even if there was a friendly route
Maybe not uphill, but to walk a mile downhill is undemanding. If you're aged between 12 and 70, not suffering from any illness or injury and you find walking a mile downhill a struggle, then all the more reason to take up walking
In 2010:
26% of adults (aged 16+) in the UK were classified as obese.
42% of men and 32% of women in the UK were classified as overweight but not obese
http://www.ic.nhs.uk/webfiles/public...gland_2012.pdf
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 4th Sep 2012 at 17:06.
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Who would walk it?
I worked at the airport for 7 years and walked from my former home in Crescent Rise Luton via the alley way next to Crawley Green Road and it took 25 minutes.
The Station is half way!
The Station is half way!
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LOL
So all you guys suggesting we just scrap the bus service with just a sign at the airport exit sating "Station that way", with an arrow and footpath for them to use and vice-versa getting to the airport from the Station.
I think there needs to be some sort of smooth, automated and seamless transportation system to take people up to the airport.
I think a cable car is the perfect option and probably the most cost effective too. It could transport passengers over the Vauxhall factor, up the hill and over the westerly apron and drop them off into the terminal. The journey would probably take no more than 4-5 mins.
This is surely a plan that could be jointly funded between Luton Borough Council, Network Rail and Abertis. The cable cars would be future proof, and allow for growth by adding additional gondolas over time, as it got busier.
A project like this would probably only cost several million, and because the cable cars are gliding about 100m above the town and airport, it is not going to get in anyones way, only require several pylons along the route.
So all you guys suggesting we just scrap the bus service with just a sign at the airport exit sating "Station that way", with an arrow and footpath for them to use and vice-versa getting to the airport from the Station.
I think there needs to be some sort of smooth, automated and seamless transportation system to take people up to the airport.
I think a cable car is the perfect option and probably the most cost effective too. It could transport passengers over the Vauxhall factor, up the hill and over the westerly apron and drop them off into the terminal. The journey would probably take no more than 4-5 mins.
This is surely a plan that could be jointly funded between Luton Borough Council, Network Rail and Abertis. The cable cars would be future proof, and allow for growth by adding additional gondolas over time, as it got busier.
A project like this would probably only cost several million, and because the cable cars are gliding about 100m above the town and airport, it is not going to get in anyones way, only require several pylons along the route.
Last edited by gilesdavies; 4th Sep 2012 at 21:00.
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As has been said before, the unused land under the taxiway was for a 'people mover' from the Parkway to the Tinminal, but this was 'cost engineered' out of the budget, just like the escalator from the platforms and the 'check in' at the station.
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On another airline website, the Air Blue rumour may be just that. Claims that the Facebook page was hacked and details added erroneously. Entries appear to have been taken down.