BIRMINGHAM - 4
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I think BHX missed a trick with Jet2, they were obviously v keen to get a Midlands base set up then again with an already strong base at MAN and EMA being part of the MAN group it was probably a case of deal done. Or, as wanna be there says, BHX were/are too scared to tread on FR's toes, despite the (now) puny base they have, FR know if they pull out BHX are just that little bit further up up s**t creek.
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Gayfriendly
You maybe getting rather more aircraft from Ryanair at BHX next year, ground handling staff at EMA have been told to expect job cuts both this winter and next Summer due to reduced routes and aircraft numbers.
I suspect that Ryanair are playing EMA/BHX off against each other.
I suspect that Ryanair are playing EMA/BHX off against each other.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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FR/Easy/Jet2
I don't think Jet2 would bring anything to the party at BHX and they
are an unknown brand compared to "in your face" FR & easyjet.
As for FR at East Mids, I checked their winter flights and it matches
what has been said on the EMA thread. Just four based are required
down from seven this summer although last winter I think they only
used five at times.
BHX's flights this winter don't look too bad at first glance as the
based aircraft operate more but you then realise 14 Dublin and 4
Shannon based movements a week have gone (SNN full-stop and
Dublin to BHX based).
Pete
are an unknown brand compared to "in your face" FR & easyjet.
As for FR at East Mids, I checked their winter flights and it matches
what has been said on the EMA thread. Just four based are required
down from seven this summer although last winter I think they only
used five at times.
BHX's flights this winter don't look too bad at first glance as the
based aircraft operate more but you then realise 14 Dublin and 4
Shannon based movements a week have gone (SNN full-stop and
Dublin to BHX based).
Pete
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In all fairness, Jet2 could bring a few good routes to BHX, and with jet2 holidays behind it, could get a good awareness at BHX. If there is one thing jet2 are good at, its local advertising. Just look at the billboards and newspaper adverts around manchester, Leeds and sheffield.
For example, jet2 could open SSH, HER, CFU, LCA, TFS and many other 'longer' flights, filling in many gaps FR or Baby wouldnt go to.
For example, jet2 could open SSH, HER, CFU, LCA, TFS and many other 'longer' flights, filling in many gaps FR or Baby wouldnt go to.
Does it really matter one jot whether BHX has this that or the other LoCo operator flying quasi IT routes (I'm thinking here of Jet2 who have really brough very little to the table at EMA other than bucket and spade services to the Med. and Egypt)?
The fact remains that BHX has retained a very extensive network of frequent business routes to majot centres in Europe, plus long haul connections via EWR, DXB and THR. If a Nottingham or Derby business person (very "PC" that!!) wants to make a trip to Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, Amsterdam for less than a full day they only have one alternative - and it sure ain't EMA - it's BHX! EMA fulfills 2 functions; first to cater for leisure PAX, and 2nd, but probably more important, as the UK's principal express parcels / cargo hub. I'm sure Penny Coates at EMA looks enviously at BHX with it's full service carriers and high frequency business services - as with the East Midlands Chambers of Commerce.
As someone living on the eastern side of the Midlands, I for one would hapilly travel for business from EMA - but it just isn't generally possible, and BHX gets our company's business every time.
So lets not get down on BHX because it hasn't got this LoCo carrier, or that destination in North Africa.
The fact remains that BHX has retained a very extensive network of frequent business routes to majot centres in Europe, plus long haul connections via EWR, DXB and THR. If a Nottingham or Derby business person (very "PC" that!!) wants to make a trip to Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, Amsterdam for less than a full day they only have one alternative - and it sure ain't EMA - it's BHX! EMA fulfills 2 functions; first to cater for leisure PAX, and 2nd, but probably more important, as the UK's principal express parcels / cargo hub. I'm sure Penny Coates at EMA looks enviously at BHX with it's full service carriers and high frequency business services - as with the East Midlands Chambers of Commerce.
As someone living on the eastern side of the Midlands, I for one would hapilly travel for business from EMA - but it just isn't generally possible, and BHX gets our company's business every time.
So lets not get down on BHX because it hasn't got this LoCo carrier, or that destination in North Africa.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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ATNotts
Give jet2 a chance they have been there 2 months? they will start with safe routes first and then try the others later when they are known in the area and when they have a larger fleet based at EMA, they started at MAN and have tried a number of routes over the years including city break type destination with varing success, but with
Ryanair and Baby they are going to have their hands full as a very large number
of destinations are covered
Ian B
Give jet2 a chance they have been there 2 months? they will start with safe routes first and then try the others later when they are known in the area and when they have a larger fleet based at EMA, they started at MAN and have tried a number of routes over the years including city break type destination with varing success, but with
Ryanair and Baby they are going to have their hands full as a very large number
of destinations are covered
Ian B
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BHX and LOCO
Where BHX and for that matter MAN will fair well in the long term is the two airports have real mix of traffic. If FR were to pull out of EMA tomorrow a large proportion of traffic would be lost. BHX or MAN would not be in the same position. BHX has a mixture of LOCO, Short-haul full service, Short and long- haul holiday flights. Even despite its proximity to London BHX hangs onto a few long haul flights too. Surely BHX doesn't want to "get into bed" with one of the large, dominant LOCO carriers? Look at STN or LUT and see what power and influence a single dominant carrier can have.
Also as mentioned previously BHX has an enviable position at the centre of the motorway network, however this is a dual edged sword, just as BHX is accessible so are other airports from the midlands.
Generally through this recession BHX has held onto most of its main business flights.
There certainly would be a market for maybe BOD,SZG,GVA,FCO,MAD,BCN,FCO,LIS,ATH by LOCO. Im afraid that Jet2 would only mean route duplication
and the loss of a charter aircraft from the IT players.
Daza
Also as mentioned previously BHX has an enviable position at the centre of the motorway network, however this is a dual edged sword, just as BHX is accessible so are other airports from the midlands.
Generally through this recession BHX has held onto most of its main business flights.
There certainly would be a market for maybe BOD,SZG,GVA,FCO,MAD,BCN,FCO,LIS,ATH by LOCO. Im afraid that Jet2 would only mean route duplication
and the loss of a charter aircraft from the IT players.Daza
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ATNotts
I think your spot on EMA do cargo really well as long as it hasn't got legs!!
I had to travel to Belfast the other day and it was chaos both ways with us held in sheep pens outside whilst one line of passengers boarded an aircraft on an adjacent stand, only after they'd got on board could we walk past their aircraft, coming back we had to wait 10 minutes again on the ramp because we couldn't cross the international flight also boarding, the daft thing is that we were stood next to them in the sheep pens chatting with just a 3 foot high barrier between us, i could have hopped over and got on another flight or passed something to another passenger. I have lost count of the number time i have got p*ss wet through stood outside in EMA's sheep pens, it one of the worst airports in Europe for the ground layout, no air bridges,few buses and even fewer drivers,zero investment unless its a retail shop,little wonder the Loco's like it, it must be dirt cheap and doesn't raise passengers expectations in any away, avoid on wet days!!
I had to travel to Belfast the other day and it was chaos both ways with us held in sheep pens outside whilst one line of passengers boarded an aircraft on an adjacent stand, only after they'd got on board could we walk past their aircraft, coming back we had to wait 10 minutes again on the ramp because we couldn't cross the international flight also boarding, the daft thing is that we were stood next to them in the sheep pens chatting with just a 3 foot high barrier between us, i could have hopped over and got on another flight or passed something to another passenger. I have lost count of the number time i have got p*ss wet through stood outside in EMA's sheep pens, it one of the worst airports in Europe for the ground layout, no air bridges,few buses and even fewer drivers,zero investment unless its a retail shop,little wonder the Loco's like it, it must be dirt cheap and doesn't raise passengers expectations in any away, avoid on wet days!!
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Lost pax
Quote Where BHX and for that matter MAN will fair well in the long term is the two airports have real mix of traffic.
I hope so having worked in the Cannock area for the last twenty years i can honestly say that 80% of people fly from MAN rather than BHX in that area, when i have asked the question why not BHX a large per portion come up with the the same answer oh i didn't realize you could fly from BHX to there, to this end i emailed BHX powers that be to make them aware of this pax loosing situation but of course little or no action has been taken pax are still driving further to man blissfully unaware of a bl--dy good airport on there door step. You would think BHX were a publicly owned company rather than a private one un till they start and beat the band wagon for BHX with a sustained awareness complains little or no growth will be attained
I hope so having worked in the Cannock area for the last twenty years i can honestly say that 80% of people fly from MAN rather than BHX in that area, when i have asked the question why not BHX a large per portion come up with the the same answer oh i didn't realize you could fly from BHX to there, to this end i emailed BHX powers that be to make them aware of this pax loosing situation but of course little or no action has been taken pax are still driving further to man blissfully unaware of a bl--dy good airport on there door step. You would think BHX were a publicly owned company rather than a private one un till they start and beat the band wagon for BHX with a sustained awareness complains little or no growth will be attained
Fuel for Mahan Air
Is BHX providing fuel for Mahan Air flights, or this just propoganda by the Iranians?
BBC News - Iranian passenger jets 'refused fuel'
BBC News - Iranian passenger jets 'refused fuel'
Join Date: Dec 2007
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RYR blah blah
O.K. shush now about RYR and their future/lack of at BHX . Like Dolly parton they will always have their knockers , but at BHX they are a niche/gimmick airline that are able to create (and destroy if need be ) their own market and when that happens it won't affect the legacy airlines that currently operate from here , but it would certainly affect us if that’s all we have and solely rely on . (i.e. Hahn , Charleroi , Skavsta etc etc ) . Put it this way , if there were a survey 5 years ago of the travelling public within the catchment area of BHX and they were asked what routes would they like to see at bhx, I'm sure Trapani , Bygdoszcz and Biarritz wouldn’t even make the top 100 , even top 200! .Ryanair created the routes to try and squeeze as much money out of the cheap deals (people see the offers and decide to go there , not the other way around ) and penny pinching that they could , and when they have squeezed all they can from the pax they will of course put a gun to the airports head. They are like some unruly bullying teenager , they picked on skyeurope and nearly ousted BMI baby except for the fact that they operate on 2 very profitable routes that RYR can't touch them on , being AMS & NCE. BHX lacks more of these type of routes , between the major hubs and the middle of nowhere cheapo routes , and theres one airline that specializes in them , so if the futures orange , bring it on . If RYR announce 150 new routes whopee , if RYR announce they are pulling out whopee , it doesnt matter , we will always have our Legacy carriers connecting to their hubs , we will still have Flybe serving the domestic & large european destinations and we will always have the oddballs going to where ever east they can, but i still look at the Easyjet route map and think 'why can't they serve that place from brum'! i rarely ever say that when i look at the RYR route map.
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Easy Yeilds
Just a thought, Easy I believe sighted low yields for pulling out of EMA and not starting BHX routes.
Bristol loose CO and LH due to low yields but Easy go from strengh to stengh there, how does that work then.
Centre cities
Bristol loose CO and LH due to low yields but Easy go from strengh to stengh there, how does that work then.
Centre cities
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RE : Easy Yields
' yield' seems to be the standard blurb that airlines use as the reason for discontinuing a certain route these days . Yield management is a very complex thing , but with todays software programs airlines can monitor and even predict when seats will sell at a certain price. Obviously they want them to sell at the optimum time and price so they can fill up the plane and produce the maximum yield without having to discount them down and get the quantity required to still operate at a profit. It doesn't matter if you’re a full service carrier with business class or a no frills airline , if you don't get the balance right between those parameters you will end up with low yield. I guess CO & LH were not able to achieve that but EZY can at BRS where success breeds success i.e more based units/better frequency/ more attractive to the travelling public but could not manage it at EMA.
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Seems from 1st september, BHX is getting the B777-300 displaced off Manchesters EK17/18.
This will add 70 seats each day to BHX, increasing capacity by 22%.
I reckon 2012 will see the A380 at BHX. 2011 will not see any A380s delivered to Emirates, so it deffinatly won't be upgraded till 2012 at the earliest.
Good news anyway, I wonder where BHX's B773 is heading on 1st sept, bets for NCL?
This will add 70 seats each day to BHX, increasing capacity by 22%.
I reckon 2012 will see the A380 at BHX. 2011 will not see any A380s delivered to Emirates, so it deffinatly won't be upgraded till 2012 at the earliest.
Good news anyway, I wonder where BHX's B773 is heading on 1st sept, bets for NCL?
Re Jet2
Agree,they have a lot of advertising on the sides of buses oop north as well.
What surprises me is that,given companies are usually very keen on the 'Brand', they still feature on the Nice Airport website Arrivals/Departures as 'Channel Express' - very confusing for anyone meeting passengers.I've e mailed them two years running but no-one in Jet2 seems to be able to get it sorted.
Their advertising is very good in Manchester and are a very well known brand but it
did take a while to get known though
did take a while to get known though
What surprises me is that,given companies are usually very keen on the 'Brand', they still feature on the Nice Airport website Arrivals/Departures as 'Channel Express' - very confusing for anyone meeting passengers.I've e mailed them two years running but no-one in Jet2 seems to be able to get it sorted.
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Emirates
wanna_be_there
The EK37/8 upgrade rumour has been kicking around for several months
but not much excitement as BHXgets about 12-15 two class 77W's a
month anyway on the evening flight. An example is tonight with the
442 seat variant although the last few days it has been a three class.
If the scheduled aircraft turned up in March then the load factor
would have been just short of 95%, however there were several
two class 77W's on EK37 - very little room for expansion (I know
some would say March saw a lot of ex MAN pax on the BHX flights)
Certainly not heard any rumours about the 380 although like Manchester
a third service has been mentioned as a possibility.
Amadeus and the EK website is showing a 777 on EK39 on 26/7/10 at
present, what have you heard - 332 or 772?
Pete
The EK37/8 upgrade rumour has been kicking around for several months
but not much excitement as BHXgets about 12-15 two class 77W's a
month anyway on the evening flight. An example is tonight with the
442 seat variant although the last few days it has been a three class.
If the scheduled aircraft turned up in March then the load factor
would have been just short of 95%, however there were several
two class 77W's on EK37 - very little room for expansion (I know
some would say March saw a lot of ex MAN pax on the BHX flights)
Certainly not heard any rumours about the 380 although like Manchester
a third service has been mentioned as a possibility.
Amadeus and the EK website is showing a 777 on EK39 on 26/7/10 at
present, what have you heard - 332 or 772?
Pete
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Oltonpete
I think its just the evening flight is MAN's B773, so I think rather than mixing 3 class and 2 class its just a confirmed 2 class HD version.
There wont be a third daily just yet, as all A332's and B773s are allocated, apart from (I think) 5 B773's.
NCL is due a B773, MAN is due to be 3rd daily in March with B773 (not neccesary for pax, but cargo has taken a huge hit introducing the A380) and I think MIA will be launced with a B773, requiring 2 B773s, therefore as 1 spare B773 is required, thats them all filled up.
So, with this 70 seat expansion at BHX, the next upgrade wont be until 2-3Q 2011 at the earliest, unless a drastic rise in cargo or pax happens at BHX.
I think its just the evening flight is MAN's B773, so I think rather than mixing 3 class and 2 class its just a confirmed 2 class HD version.
There wont be a third daily just yet, as all A332's and B773s are allocated, apart from (I think) 5 B773's.
NCL is due a B773, MAN is due to be 3rd daily in March with B773 (not neccesary for pax, but cargo has taken a huge hit introducing the A380) and I think MIA will be launced with a B773, requiring 2 B773s, therefore as 1 spare B773 is required, thats them all filled up.
So, with this 70 seat expansion at BHX, the next upgrade wont be until 2-3Q 2011 at the earliest, unless a drastic rise in cargo or pax happens at BHX.
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EK
wanna_be_there
Cheers for the info.
BHX now have a press release out re the 442 seater and the EI Cork double daily for winter (significant downgrade in seat availability though).
2011 Q2-3 for an upgrade by EK sounds early enough, not sure that the DXB
third bank of departures would be strong enough yet for BHX to fill a third flight, even as a 332.
I am more staggered that QR have no interest in BHX especially with Doha-Amritsar going daily. Not quite a licence to print money but certainly a nice little helping hand to get a new route started.
Pete
Cheers for the info.
BHX now have a press release out re the 442 seater and the EI Cork double daily for winter (significant downgrade in seat availability though).
2011 Q2-3 for an upgrade by EK sounds early enough, not sure that the DXB
third bank of departures would be strong enough yet for BHX to fill a third flight, even as a 332.
I am more staggered that QR have no interest in BHX especially with Doha-Amritsar going daily. Not quite a licence to print money but certainly a nice little helping hand to get a new route started.
Pete