BIRMINGHAM - 4
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The good, the bad and the ugly
In reverse order.
Ugly - as mentioned in previous posts, Cologne gone nearly six months before
it was due to start.
Bad - PK on Radio WM this morning stating the runway extension might take as
long as 2018 to complete and it might have to be done in stages with the
last 100m put in by 2018!!!!!! Money again is the problem
Good - Thomson changing one 757 this summer for a high density 763 for Med
routes. This negates the earlier loss in seats compared to 2009 due to
the 73H being based. Two 763's based part of the week!!! However
this increase is still not showing in the Thomson schedules link I have.
Pete
Ugly - as mentioned in previous posts, Cologne gone nearly six months before
it was due to start.
Bad - PK on Radio WM this morning stating the runway extension might take as
long as 2018 to complete and it might have to be done in stages with the
last 100m put in by 2018!!!!!! Money again is the problem
Good - Thomson changing one 757 this summer for a high density 763 for Med
routes. This negates the earlier loss in seats compared to 2009 due to
the 73H being based. Two 763's based part of the week!!! However
this increase is still not showing in the Thomson schedules link I have.
Pete
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tom 763
Yes we have been told to expect a 763 to operate out of BHx with 328 seats 7 days a week,replacing a 757. The longhaul aircraft ,an ex fca 258 seater will operate Monday to Thursday.
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TOM
Cheers oceanhawk
That is what I have been told just getting worried the TOM schedules
are still not showing it.
The one thing it is showing is a 2nd Sanford on a Saturday in the summer
but the flight number matches the 2011 April service. Is this an error as the
258 seater positions out early Friday morning and returns Monday and I can't
see a HD 763 doing that flight.
Pete
That is what I have been told just getting worried the TOM schedules
are still not showing it.
The one thing it is showing is a 2nd Sanford on a Saturday in the summer
but the flight number matches the 2011 April service. Is this an error as the
258 seater positions out early Friday morning and returns Monday and I can't
see a HD 763 doing that flight.
Pete
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Im going to sound really heartless here, but its a genuine question so i might as well ask it.
Realisticly, what does BHX need the extention of the runway for?
For flights to India, PIA's B773's already operate into BHX and India is not that far on top of the BHX-ISB flight, so they shouldnt be a huge issue. Not to mention you already had flights to ATQ with no issues.
As for further afield, an exended runway isnt going to make all the airlines turn their heads and say 'ok, well come to BHX', its too close to LHR to get the likes of MH, CX, SQ, AA (LAX), SAA etc. With that in mind, who, realisticly, are these operators that have been pining for a longer runway and will come once its done.
I know it says im from MAN and you may well be rolling your eyes thinking 'its easy for him to say being a MAN supporter', but im genuinly asking this not with bias, but intregue. I just think money could be better spent elsewhere like the new tower, more stands and better pax experience.
Its not always about chasing what you 'could' get, but looking after and protecting what you already have.
Realisticly, what does BHX need the extention of the runway for?
For flights to India, PIA's B773's already operate into BHX and India is not that far on top of the BHX-ISB flight, so they shouldnt be a huge issue. Not to mention you already had flights to ATQ with no issues.
As for further afield, an exended runway isnt going to make all the airlines turn their heads and say 'ok, well come to BHX', its too close to LHR to get the likes of MH, CX, SQ, AA (LAX), SAA etc. With that in mind, who, realisticly, are these operators that have been pining for a longer runway and will come once its done.
I know it says im from MAN and you may well be rolling your eyes thinking 'its easy for him to say being a MAN supporter', but im genuinly asking this not with bias, but intregue. I just think money could be better spent elsewhere like the new tower, more stands and better pax experience.
Its not always about chasing what you 'could' get, but looking after and protecting what you already have.
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Runway
wanna_be_there
Not heartless, it is a good question and reading between the lines one of the first PK asked when he became CEO.
If it was there now what extra flights would we have - not really sure but possibly once weekly Vancouver and possibly a HD aircraft to Vagas, again once weekly. Yes not exactly a great way to re-coup your outlay.
However with the future, it is difficult to judge as ten years ago would we have forecast BHX packing out two EK 77W's a day to Dubai and a PK 777 four a week to ISB?
Obviously the outlook was brighter ten years ago than it is today and it must be difficult to justify such an expense. PK himself was coy on the Radio this morning apparently, only mentioning a Chinese service and possibly India (stand to be corrected as I did not hear this first-hand).
What I would say, if Air India are serious about a European hub including India - Europe - LAX then that extra bit of runway might have made a difference when it came to their final decision (not saying one way or the other if this Air India plan is viable anyway).
Pete
Not heartless, it is a good question and reading between the lines one of the first PK asked when he became CEO.
If it was there now what extra flights would we have - not really sure but possibly once weekly Vancouver and possibly a HD aircraft to Vagas, again once weekly. Yes not exactly a great way to re-coup your outlay.
However with the future, it is difficult to judge as ten years ago would we have forecast BHX packing out two EK 77W's a day to Dubai and a PK 777 four a week to ISB?
Obviously the outlook was brighter ten years ago than it is today and it must be difficult to justify such an expense. PK himself was coy on the Radio this morning apparently, only mentioning a Chinese service and possibly India (stand to be corrected as I did not hear this first-hand).
What I would say, if Air India are serious about a European hub including India - Europe - LAX then that extra bit of runway might have made a difference when it came to their final decision (not saying one way or the other if this Air India plan is viable anyway).
Pete
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Maybe with the 787 BHX wont need the extra length to go to the US East coast. We are only 3 weeks away from a new Goverment and if the Consevatives get in the a new transport policy may impact on these plans, remeber that even if BHX owners are picking up the tab for the runway there will need to goverment money (ours) to fund associated road works and i think the plans were based on a regional grant of £25m plus, my guss is it will get kicked into the long grass.
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Inkjet
I think you are correct, a lot of project are going to get kicked into touch in next few months due lack of money on Government side and if they are slightly contensious or
non green I think we can kiss them goodbye.
As a country we are in a terrible mess thanks to the large ammount of borrowing this government has made and difficult options are going to have to be taken, roads and airports will take a large hit as they are expensive and not in favour at present.
If they are going to put a new railway in why not take it in to St Pancras and run Eurostar right through into Europe as well
Ian B
I think you are correct, a lot of project are going to get kicked into touch in next few months due lack of money on Government side and if they are slightly contensious or
non green I think we can kiss them goodbye.
As a country we are in a terrible mess thanks to the large ammount of borrowing this government has made and difficult options are going to have to be taken, roads and airports will take a large hit as they are expensive and not in favour at present.
If they are going to put a new railway in why not take it in to St Pancras and run Eurostar right through into Europe as well
Ian B
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OltonPete,
The short-haul 767 is scheduled to operate the following flights (replacing a 757)
Monday
Dalaman – TOM722/3
Bodrum – TOM266/7
Tuesday
Alicante – TOM7214/5
Antalya – TOM656/7
Wednesday
Mahon – TOM7328/9
Kos – TOM7366/7
Thursday
Palma – TOM7410/1
Sharm El Sheikh – TOM844/5
Friday
Reus – TOM7510/1
Naples – TOM7556/7
Ibiza – TOM7586/7
Saturday
Ibiza – TOM7632/3
Dalaman – TOM486/7
Sunday
Kavala – TOM7702/3
Monastir – TOM206/7
I can also see a Sanford flight on a Saturday, however these have identical flight numbers to the Sanford flight from Glasgow on Saturday! Maybe it operates via BHX?
Regards
Sam
The short-haul 767 is scheduled to operate the following flights (replacing a 757)
Monday
Dalaman – TOM722/3
Bodrum – TOM266/7
Tuesday
Alicante – TOM7214/5
Antalya – TOM656/7
Wednesday
Mahon – TOM7328/9
Kos – TOM7366/7
Thursday
Palma – TOM7410/1
Sharm El Sheikh – TOM844/5
Friday
Reus – TOM7510/1
Naples – TOM7556/7
Ibiza – TOM7586/7
Saturday
Ibiza – TOM7632/3
Dalaman – TOM486/7
Sunday
Kavala – TOM7702/3
Monastir – TOM206/7
I can also see a Sanford flight on a Saturday, however these have identical flight numbers to the Sanford flight from Glasgow on Saturday! Maybe it operates via BHX?
Regards
Sam
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Ian Brooks
They could go one better and build a high speed (twin?) mono rail link above the M42 with links into both EMA/BHX and run at 120 mph plus you'd be looking at inter airport transfer of less than 20 minutes, EMA already has a long runway with plenty of space around for additional terminals, Midlands South and Midlands North
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Inkjet
Think that it may be a tad cheaper just to build the extension at BHX don't you think? Can't see BHX and MAG/EMA ever getting together on owt of that scale (can't see 'em getting together on anything come to that). 
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Runway
So we've got guys from Manchester, Stockport and East Midlands telling us we shouldn't build an extension to our runway.
Hmm, Manchester built a second runway of course and EMA has plans to lengthen their runway even more.
Publically at least, Paul Kehoe is still committed to building the extension and his latest update is on the BHX News & Alerts.
That said, Mr Kehoe visited the two major BHX shareholders not too long ago and shortly after that one of them bought Bristol Airport!
For the amount the Extension will cost, the shortfall in the required finance is a piddling £25 million, this is the amount Advantage West Midlands promised, with a lot of publicity, then recently withdrew when it was actually required.
Hmm, Manchester built a second runway of course and EMA has plans to lengthen their runway even more.
Publically at least, Paul Kehoe is still committed to building the extension and his latest update is on the BHX News & Alerts.
That said, Mr Kehoe visited the two major BHX shareholders not too long ago and shortly after that one of them bought Bristol Airport!
For the amount the Extension will cost, the shortfall in the required finance is a piddling £25 million, this is the amount Advantage West Midlands promised, with a lot of publicity, then recently withdrew when it was actually required.
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Thomson
sam1993
Cheers, would you believe it my link has been updated now.
Still not convinced by the extra Sanford unless it is split-loaded
but it does not make sense as it is the day after the aircraft
has already positioned to Glasgow.
Pete
Cheers, would you believe it my link has been updated now.
Still not convinced by the extra Sanford unless it is split-loaded
but it does not make sense as it is the day after the aircraft
has already positioned to Glasgow.
Pete
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TOM 763
Olton Pete,
the SFB is showing on our BHX summer 2010 flying programme on a Wednesday as TOM 258/9 (an ex fca 258 seater )There is n't a SFB showing at all on a Friday even as a split load.I seem to recall a duty positioning a 767 to Glasgow on a Friday morning coming back with flybe. A split would involve a whole crew which would mean a coach back to BHX. However,things must be picking up at BHX for Thomson hence the short notice upgrade to a high density 763, so never say never. We have been told to expect a least one less 763 in the fleet next year, summer 2011, so it may only be for one year. I hope it does come back for next summer. Nevertheless two 763's are NOT having winglets fitted. They may be the first two to go when the 787 turns up and so are not financially viable.
the SFB is showing on our BHX summer 2010 flying programme on a Wednesday as TOM 258/9 (an ex fca 258 seater )There is n't a SFB showing at all on a Friday even as a split load.I seem to recall a duty positioning a 767 to Glasgow on a Friday morning coming back with flybe. A split would involve a whole crew which would mean a coach back to BHX. However,things must be picking up at BHX for Thomson hence the short notice upgrade to a high density 763, so never say never. We have been told to expect a least one less 763 in the fleet next year, summer 2011, so it may only be for one year. I hope it does come back for next summer. Nevertheless two 763's are NOT having winglets fitted. They may be the first two to go when the 787 turns up and so are not financially viable.
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Sanford
oceanhawk
Cheers for the information.
Gremlin I presume, as it is not bookable on their site.
The flight number does become the BHX-SFB on Sat 9/4/2011
according to the Thomson online timetable.
Never mind, I am sure one day BHX will have more than one weekly
Florida service.
Good to see Cancun two weekly for April.
Pete
Cheers for the information.
Gremlin I presume, as it is not bookable on their site.
The flight number does become the BHX-SFB on Sat 9/4/2011
according to the Thomson online timetable.
Never mind, I am sure one day BHX will have more than one weekly
Florida service.
Good to see Cancun two weekly for April.
Pete
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Alvechurch
I didn`t say you shouldn`t get the runway,I said with money as it is with the Government at the moment it`s more likely to be spent on a more green project
i:e railways but having said that the railway plans have great flaws in them ( planning) and the cost is amazing
Ian B
I didn`t say you shouldn`t get the runway,I said with money as it is with the Government at the moment it`s more likely to be spent on a more green project
i:e railways but having said that the railway plans have great flaws in them ( planning) and the cost is amazing
Ian B
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Question
Why haven't Virgin ever operated a weekly Florida service from BHX?
Oltonpete you touched on the Orlando weekly service.
With VS flying to Orlando from LGW and MAN for many years now and with LGW being 2.5 - 3 hours drive away from BHX I doubt it would impact on their ops. OK MAN is nearer but they have the whole of the north of England to serve. Florida is obviously one of the most popular holiday destinations for us brits for all ages and for some time. TOM are doing well from Brum with package holidays but surely theres enough slack for a weekly service from VS?
Ok, maybe runway length? but im guessing a loaded 744 with no cargo and just less than 2/3 full of required fuel is it do-able? reduced seats maybe? I stand to be corrected by any pilots out there. RUNWAY 2600mtrs. BHX does not accept Airbus 346. TOM can do Punta Cana non stop on the 763 which is further and can almost do CUN in one.
I remember VS sniffing around BHX 20ish years ago but nothing has ever happened.
Any ideas folks?
ATC tower - Due to start constuction next year. Surveys have been completed. Tower first then runway extension (maybe in stages).
Oltonpete you touched on the Orlando weekly service.
With VS flying to Orlando from LGW and MAN for many years now and with LGW being 2.5 - 3 hours drive away from BHX I doubt it would impact on their ops. OK MAN is nearer but they have the whole of the north of England to serve. Florida is obviously one of the most popular holiday destinations for us brits for all ages and for some time. TOM are doing well from Brum with package holidays but surely theres enough slack for a weekly service from VS?
Ok, maybe runway length? but im guessing a loaded 744 with no cargo and just less than 2/3 full of required fuel is it do-able? reduced seats maybe? I stand to be corrected by any pilots out there. RUNWAY 2600mtrs. BHX does not accept Airbus 346. TOM can do Punta Cana non stop on the 763 which is further and can almost do CUN in one.
I remember VS sniffing around BHX 20ish years ago but nothing has ever happened.
Any ideas folks?
ATC tower - Due to start constuction next year. Surveys have been completed. Tower first then runway extension (maybe in stages).
Why haven't Virgin ever operated a weekly Florida service from BHX?
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Virgin
Why just Florida and why not the A333 when it arrives.
All this talk about Air India, Jet & Kingfisher to India but why not Virgin when the A333 arrives subject of course to bi-laterals, which I believe I have seen quoted that only Air India have the route rights?
I agree re the past, there would be little point risking a once or twice a week 744 service (I have seen an British Airtours 747 with over 400 pax go direct to Orlando - scary!), as ideally you would have to position the aircraft in adding costs unless it was operated MAN-MCO-BHX-MCO-MAN and you then only offer six day or 13 day holidays.
I would certainly hope BHX management are aware of the A333 arriving soon at Virgin and are one of the airlines they have targeted and not just for Florida but India as well.
No disrespect to Mahan and Turkmen (between 8 & 12000 pax per month) who are doing a fine job but BHX-ATQ is screaming out for a major operator and I realise that one of these airlines would probably have difficulty sustaining the route on VFR traffic alone but there must be potential for some business traffic to India?
Orlando would have to make do with premium economy I fear but I am not sure of the Virgin A333 configuration although the airport can only ask re potential routes, which I am sure they are doing.
Virgin have seen a potential market at Glasgow to Orlando (albeit with little competition), so why not BHX, especially going east if the bi-laterals allow it (Just imagine SRB and his publicity machine!).
Pete
All this talk about Air India, Jet & Kingfisher to India but why not Virgin when the A333 arrives subject of course to bi-laterals, which I believe I have seen quoted that only Air India have the route rights?
I agree re the past, there would be little point risking a once or twice a week 744 service (I have seen an British Airtours 747 with over 400 pax go direct to Orlando - scary!), as ideally you would have to position the aircraft in adding costs unless it was operated MAN-MCO-BHX-MCO-MAN and you then only offer six day or 13 day holidays.
I would certainly hope BHX management are aware of the A333 arriving soon at Virgin and are one of the airlines they have targeted and not just for Florida but India as well.
No disrespect to Mahan and Turkmen (between 8 & 12000 pax per month) who are doing a fine job but BHX-ATQ is screaming out for a major operator and I realise that one of these airlines would probably have difficulty sustaining the route on VFR traffic alone but there must be potential for some business traffic to India?
Orlando would have to make do with premium economy I fear but I am not sure of the Virgin A333 configuration although the airport can only ask re potential routes, which I am sure they are doing.
Virgin have seen a potential market at Glasgow to Orlando (albeit with little competition), so why not BHX, especially going east if the bi-laterals allow it (Just imagine SRB and his publicity machine!).
Pete