BIRMINGHAM - 4
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WBT,
I was born just down the road from LHR in the borough of Twickenham so, in theory, I should be speaking in support of LHR.
First of all it can be a pain in the butt to travel to/from by public transport and this encourages many to drive and park their cars at LHR at extortionate prices.
One time, to save on car parking, I decided to 'hire car' it to/from LHR, one might imagine one drops off / picks up the hire car at a car park close to the terminal building frontage ..... Oh no, one drops off / picks up the hire car in the middle of nowhere on the airport perimeter and needs to shuttle bus it to/from the terminal.
Another time I decided on a hotel + parking package at the Holiday Inn M4/J4, absolutely no atmosphere in any of the hotel's 3 bars however there is a lovely quaint pub just outside the hotel gates. I was travelling the next morning to DNK so, to make it to DNK on the same day, I needed to take the 0630L Austrian Airlines service LHR/VIE.
Long gone are hotel courtesy buses at LHR, replaced with shuttle bus services that one needs to pay a few quid fare for ..... but these buses don't start operating at a time of the morning for passengers to travel on the earlier flights!!!
If I never experience LHR again it shall still be too soon.
I was born just down the road from LHR in the borough of Twickenham so, in theory, I should be speaking in support of LHR.
First of all it can be a pain in the butt to travel to/from by public transport and this encourages many to drive and park their cars at LHR at extortionate prices.
One time, to save on car parking, I decided to 'hire car' it to/from LHR, one might imagine one drops off / picks up the hire car at a car park close to the terminal building frontage ..... Oh no, one drops off / picks up the hire car in the middle of nowhere on the airport perimeter and needs to shuttle bus it to/from the terminal.
Another time I decided on a hotel + parking package at the Holiday Inn M4/J4, absolutely no atmosphere in any of the hotel's 3 bars however there is a lovely quaint pub just outside the hotel gates. I was travelling the next morning to DNK so, to make it to DNK on the same day, I needed to take the 0630L Austrian Airlines service LHR/VIE.
Long gone are hotel courtesy buses at LHR, replaced with shuttle bus services that one needs to pay a few quid fare for ..... but these buses don't start operating at a time of the morning for passengers to travel on the earlier flights!!!
If I never experience LHR again it shall still be too soon.
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Phileas (post 4054) - you're preaching to the converted! I have no issue with any statement you make in that post. But the behaviour of the travelling public shows that rightly or wrongly, they have (consistently for many years now) arrived at a different conclusion, and until BHX makes a concerted and effective attempt to educate, persuade and incentivise, it will continue to miss out on the lion's share of business within the catchment area. And don't forget the obsession of overseas (particularly USA) pax with LHR.
Call100 - yes, I heard some years ago that the airport considered the likes of DUB as competitors
Call100 - yes, I heard some years ago that the airport considered the likes of DUB as competitors
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Giddy,
The problem with connecting en-route to USA is because UK is on the western edge of Europe the pax would need to route sideways or backwards before heading in a forward direction and I can understand their mentality in such a thing.
Besides Ireland the only realistic solution to this would be to try to attract Icelandair, Icelandair use KEF as a hub whereas the fleet arrives from one direction, all the passengers play musical seats/aircraft, then the fleet departs in t'other direction thus one solitary aircraft, at present from LHR, MAN or GLA, can serve these destinations via KEF:
Boston
Halifax
New York
Washington D.C.
Minneapolis
Seattle
Toronto
Orlando
The problem with connecting en-route to USA is because UK is on the western edge of Europe the pax would need to route sideways or backwards before heading in a forward direction and I can understand their mentality in such a thing.
Besides Ireland the only realistic solution to this would be to try to attract Icelandair, Icelandair use KEF as a hub whereas the fleet arrives from one direction, all the passengers play musical seats/aircraft, then the fleet departs in t'other direction thus one solitary aircraft, at present from LHR, MAN or GLA, can serve these destinations via KEF:
Boston
Halifax
New York
Washington D.C.
Minneapolis
Seattle
Toronto
Orlando
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 13th Mar 2011 at 22:07.
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February pax down 2.2%
Back to form after a one month blip - source CAA
February 2011 pax 535946, rolling year 8554851 -5.1%
Movements 5932 down 1.6%
An unusual month as long-haul was poor with Emirates just
about up but PK, CO, T5 & W5 all down although the first two
were due to strikes and weather cancellations respectively.
To continue on a theme from previous posts Star Alliance
and Skyteam hubs were all up (FRA, MUC, DUS, CPH, BRU,
AMS and CDG). Munich was 20% up, I believe the Skyteam
ones were only slight increases but on reduced rotations in
respect of Paris.
Load factors to follow at some point.
Pete
February 2011 pax 535946, rolling year 8554851 -5.1%
Movements 5932 down 1.6%
An unusual month as long-haul was poor with Emirates just
about up but PK, CO, T5 & W5 all down although the first two
were due to strikes and weather cancellations respectively.
To continue on a theme from previous posts Star Alliance
and Skyteam hubs were all up (FRA, MUC, DUS, CPH, BRU,
AMS and CDG). Munich was 20% up, I believe the Skyteam
ones were only slight increases but on reduced rotations in
respect of Paris.
Load factors to follow at some point.
Pete
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February 2011 route analysis
Monthly passenger figures from the CAA.
Average pax per flight flight and load factor my estimates using a BHX blog and libhomeradar.
Long-hauls appeared not to be that good but there were reasons, such as CO weather cancellations, PIA strikes and Mahan only operating 3 a week.
DUBAI 42,752/381 per flight/88% Load Factor
DUBLIN 41,076/129 pax/71%
AMSTERDAM 33,850/91 pax/70%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 15833/165 pax/82%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 24,016/79 pax/75%
FRANKFURT MAIN 19,408/67 pax/65%
ALICANTE 11184/169 pax/91%
GENEVA 16,026/117 pax/77%
ARRECIFE 6764/169 pax/86%
MALAGA 11564/152 pax/83%
DUSSELDORF 12,516/43 pax/51%
ZURICH 11,998/71 pax/67%
MUNICH 10,378/68 pax/61%
BRUSSELS 8,838/39 pax/45%
LAS PALMAS 4905/136 pax/71%
ISLAMABAD 8,374/299 pax/80%
COPENHAGEN 6,290/72 pax/63%
FUERTEVENTURA/1417/177 pax/83%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 5,463/137 pax/78%
CORK 5,149/50 pax/69%
FARO 4,970/178 pax/89%
HANOVER 3201/59 pax/78%
ASHKHABAD 4,807/150 pax/79%
MALTA 4,289/134 pax/80%
CHAMBERY 1216/76 pax/97% suspect some IT pax included
NIEDERRHEIN 4,136/129 pax/68%
IMAM KHOMIENI 3,875/161 pax/83%
KRAKOW 3,867/153 pax/82%
BYDGOSZCZ 3,847/160 pax/85%
BRATISLAVA 3,839/160 pax/85%
GERONA 3,102/129 pax/68%
IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK 3,088/97 pax/65%
LYON 2,829/35 pax/71%
LARNACA 2,804/175 pax/90%
RZESZOW 2,756/172 pax/91%
GRENOBLE 1616/101 pax/65%
ISTANBUL 2,639/69 pax/47% - one cancelled
GDANSK 2,470/154 pax 82%
KATOWICE 2,465/154 pax/82%
SHANNON 2,378/50 pax/69%
STUTTGART 2,197/35 pax/45%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 1,546/35 pax/45%
HAMBURG 1,194/31 pax/40%
WATERFORD 1,028/32 pax/45%
PRAGUE 673/112 pax/75%
Pete
Average pax per flight flight and load factor my estimates using a BHX blog and libhomeradar.
Long-hauls appeared not to be that good but there were reasons, such as CO weather cancellations, PIA strikes and Mahan only operating 3 a week.
DUBAI 42,752/381 per flight/88% Load Factor
DUBLIN 41,076/129 pax/71%
AMSTERDAM 33,850/91 pax/70%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 15833/165 pax/82%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 24,016/79 pax/75%
FRANKFURT MAIN 19,408/67 pax/65%
ALICANTE 11184/169 pax/91%
GENEVA 16,026/117 pax/77%
ARRECIFE 6764/169 pax/86%
MALAGA 11564/152 pax/83%
DUSSELDORF 12,516/43 pax/51%
ZURICH 11,998/71 pax/67%
MUNICH 10,378/68 pax/61%
BRUSSELS 8,838/39 pax/45%
LAS PALMAS 4905/136 pax/71%
ISLAMABAD 8,374/299 pax/80%
COPENHAGEN 6,290/72 pax/63%
FUERTEVENTURA/1417/177 pax/83%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 5,463/137 pax/78%
CORK 5,149/50 pax/69%
FARO 4,970/178 pax/89%
HANOVER 3201/59 pax/78%
ASHKHABAD 4,807/150 pax/79%
MALTA 4,289/134 pax/80%
CHAMBERY 1216/76 pax/97% suspect some IT pax included
NIEDERRHEIN 4,136/129 pax/68%
IMAM KHOMIENI 3,875/161 pax/83%
KRAKOW 3,867/153 pax/82%
BYDGOSZCZ 3,847/160 pax/85%
BRATISLAVA 3,839/160 pax/85%
GERONA 3,102/129 pax/68%
IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK 3,088/97 pax/65%
LYON 2,829/35 pax/71%
LARNACA 2,804/175 pax/90%
RZESZOW 2,756/172 pax/91%
GRENOBLE 1616/101 pax/65%
ISTANBUL 2,639/69 pax/47% - one cancelled
GDANSK 2,470/154 pax 82%
KATOWICE 2,465/154 pax/82%
SHANNON 2,378/50 pax/69%
STUTTGART 2,197/35 pax/45%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 1,546/35 pax/45%
HAMBURG 1,194/31 pax/40%
WATERFORD 1,028/32 pax/45%
PRAGUE 673/112 pax/75%
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 14th Mar 2011 at 23:22. Reason: spelling
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Interesting discussion
I caught this this afternoon in today's 'PR Week', given all of the flack that it has been getting I was surprised that in this reputation survey Heathrow was regarded as the UK's favourite airport.
Reputation Survey: British airports - Heathrow's routes give it the edge - PR and Public Relations news - PR Week
What doesn't come out in this web version of the story is the finding that from a business traveller's perspective the most important factor when choosing an airport is that they are able to fly to a destination that they require (around 47%) the next nearest factor was that the airport was closest to their office / home (around18%); efficient service at the airport came in at about 11% and other things like amenities, cheapest flights, flight timings, parking etc all came in at around 5-6%.
So, quite pertinet to the debate about route development at BHX, for the business traveller, routes seem to be the key, even if they have to travel that bit further.
I can't help thinking that if BHX gets its wish for a connection to HS2, that few will travel north to an airport with limited routes and freqency to key business destinations, even if it is described as being in zone 5 - more likely that there will be an exodus south via the Heathrow spur to LHR and its far greater route map and choice of departure times.
Reputation Survey: British airports - Heathrow's routes give it the edge - PR and Public Relations news - PR Week
What doesn't come out in this web version of the story is the finding that from a business traveller's perspective the most important factor when choosing an airport is that they are able to fly to a destination that they require (around 47%) the next nearest factor was that the airport was closest to their office / home (around18%); efficient service at the airport came in at about 11% and other things like amenities, cheapest flights, flight timings, parking etc all came in at around 5-6%.
So, quite pertinet to the debate about route development at BHX, for the business traveller, routes seem to be the key, even if they have to travel that bit further.
I can't help thinking that if BHX gets its wish for a connection to HS2, that few will travel north to an airport with limited routes and freqency to key business destinations, even if it is described as being in zone 5 - more likely that there will be an exodus south via the Heathrow spur to LHR and its far greater route map and choice of departure times.
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RealFish,
There's a particular outfit that lay claim to being 'The World's Favourite Airline' yet the two most recent experiences I had of them, you might appreciate I haven't used them since, they operated AMS/LGW with the undercarriage down to burn off the excess overfuelling, making it somewhat of a bumpy ride, and they cancelled my LUX/LGW flight, one day before the flight, due to a 'bullsh1t' technical problem!
LHR might be the favourite airport but only because it monopolises the operators and routes that other airports cannot offer, it's all on numbers and not on personal preferences/questionaires.
There's a particular outfit that lay claim to being 'The World's Favourite Airline' yet the two most recent experiences I had of them, you might appreciate I haven't used them since, they operated AMS/LGW with the undercarriage down to burn off the excess overfuelling, making it somewhat of a bumpy ride, and they cancelled my LUX/LGW flight, one day before the flight, due to a 'bullsh1t' technical problem!
LHR might be the favourite airport but only because it monopolises the operators and routes that other airports cannot offer, it's all on numbers and not on personal preferences/questionaires.
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 15th Mar 2011 at 00:22.
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The beauty of Birmingham
I must chip in and support Phileas Fogg. For travellers based in the midlands, the attractions of B'ham are the seamless link from the station or the long term car park within walking distance and the one stop connections to most of the world on AF, LH, KL, EK and to a lesser extent SK and Swiss. The most important new route in recent years has been TK - they are expanding routes rapidly and are the real competition to EK from B'ham to many african and asian destinations. Maybe they're not taken so seriously because it's only a 737?
The really weak areas are N central and S america ( largely because we sit on the western fringe of europe as P Fogg pointed out a while ago). S america would be solved by a Madrid flight/s for with the overnight connections, but only if it were IB or another One World outfit. Something else to connect from in US and anything to Canada and the Caribbean would be next on my personal list.
I think the way to sell B'ham is to compare the time taken to start flying from LHR or LGW with a B'ham departure and a 1-2 hour connection in Europe or Dubai.
The really weak areas are N central and S america ( largely because we sit on the western fringe of europe as P Fogg pointed out a while ago). S america would be solved by a Madrid flight/s for with the overnight connections, but only if it were IB or another One World outfit. Something else to connect from in US and anything to Canada and the Caribbean would be next on my personal list.
I think the way to sell B'ham is to compare the time taken to start flying from LHR or LGW with a B'ham departure and a 1-2 hour connection in Europe or Dubai.
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Thank You Golf Yankee
But please don't knock Swiss, not that you were, Swiss, from time to time. have some brilliant fares on their own website that travel agencies don't have, last time I checked it was cheaper to fly to Italy (via ZRH) than it was to fly to ZRH itself, besides that the Swiss cabin service is above par and the friendliness of the crews is well above par.
Furthermore one can buy duty free, yes, duty free still exists between EU and Switzerland, prices on Swiss were/are better than in ZRH airport but to hell with cash, one can purchase duty free with accumulated Lufthansa 'Miles & More' points.
But please don't knock Swiss, not that you were, Swiss, from time to time. have some brilliant fares on their own website that travel agencies don't have, last time I checked it was cheaper to fly to Italy (via ZRH) than it was to fly to ZRH itself, besides that the Swiss cabin service is above par and the friendliness of the crews is well above par.
Furthermore one can buy duty free, yes, duty free still exists between EU and Switzerland, prices on Swiss were/are better than in ZRH airport but to hell with cash, one can purchase duty free with accumulated Lufthansa 'Miles & More' points.
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OK I'm biased but Brum is the best airport to fly from.
Local, good parking, good rail connections, small queues, good facilities and staff.
On a recent trip from Dubai I was back at home 35 minutes after I had landed.
My only gripe is why there are not more City Break routes. e.g Barcelona (Girona is not Barcelona!!), Lisbon, Madrid, Rome Vienna.
There must be a supportable requirement for these routes in the midlands, but yet we are forced to connect or goto (god forbid) LHR or MANC.
It always amazes me when I watch the flight trackers online how much time airlines waste getting into LHR. There are usually 3 or 4 stacks active during the day and 100 miles up the road a/c are straight in every time.
It just bewilders me the lack of vision of people in the aviation industry.
Adie
Local, good parking, good rail connections, small queues, good facilities and staff.
On a recent trip from Dubai I was back at home 35 minutes after I had landed.
My only gripe is why there are not more City Break routes. e.g Barcelona (Girona is not Barcelona!!), Lisbon, Madrid, Rome Vienna.
There must be a supportable requirement for these routes in the midlands, but yet we are forced to connect or goto (god forbid) LHR or MANC.
It always amazes me when I watch the flight trackers online how much time airlines waste getting into LHR. There are usually 3 or 4 stacks active during the day and 100 miles up the road a/c are straight in every time.
It just bewilders me the lack of vision of people in the aviation industry.
Adie
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I am sorry to say but I cannot ever see BHX gaining much traffic from LHR
1. rail link to London actually is working in reverse as people are travelling down as there are better connections and quite aften fares are cheaper
2. Transfer passengers at Heathrow is a very big part of the business onward to the world
3. Many of the big spenders are Central London or south of the Thames
and now also west of London (Oxford, Swindon etc) so do not want
to tavel up to BHX where there are very few F or J class seats available
Manchester is a bit different in that it has a very large business community in banking, Chemicals and now TV/film production and they are demanding more business and first class accomodation as per EK/SQ
Ian B
1. rail link to London actually is working in reverse as people are travelling down as there are better connections and quite aften fares are cheaper
2. Transfer passengers at Heathrow is a very big part of the business onward to the world
3. Many of the big spenders are Central London or south of the Thames
and now also west of London (Oxford, Swindon etc) so do not want
to tavel up to BHX where there are very few F or J class seats available
Manchester is a bit different in that it has a very large business community in banking, Chemicals and now TV/film production and they are demanding more business and first class accomodation as per EK/SQ
Ian B
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I suspect that BHX will have growth in routes next year, the fundamentals are right and Ryanair have acted has a brake on airlines trying new routes. yet have done very little other than litter the airport with parked aircraft.
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Quite agree with various of the comments above in support of the destinations available (with 1 stop) from BHX. I'm heading out to Hong Kong next month and considered a direct flight from LHR. Ultimately I went for the local option of travelling from BHX with Swiss in a mixture of J/F cabin - thereby demonstrating the quality service available to global destinations from BHX!
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Agree with most of the above, the choice of routes from BHX is envaible for a regional UK airport, not sure any other regional comes close to it. In terms of the business class demand from BHX, compare business fares to say Newark and BHX is consistently higher than the other UK services offered by CO, would strongly suggest to me there's no problem with demand in this market.
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Yes 78% for EWR is quite a good load and if fares are high which to
be honest I haven`t got time to check does meen they are doing well with it but not enough to go 2 daily except perhaps in summer. They will be
more happy filling 1 plane at high fares rather than 2 at low fares
Ian B
be honest I haven`t got time to check does meen they are doing well with it but not enough to go 2 daily except perhaps in summer. They will be
more happy filling 1 plane at high fares rather than 2 at low fares
Ian B
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CO
Dont forget they tried 2 a day before and it was not brilliant, load factors were OK but the prices low. Another benefit is that some of the Bristol pax living BHX side will be using the BHX flight, from memory BRS offered some low fares which was bound to entice some of the halfway house pax that way.
Centre cities
Centre cities
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The really weak areas are N central and S america ( largely because we sit on the western fringe of europe as P Fogg pointed out a while ago). S america would be solved by a Madrid flight/s for with the overnight connections, but only if it were IB or another One World outfit. Something else to connect from in US and anything to Canada and the Caribbean would be next on my personal list.
chinapattern:
I'm afraid that the passenger profile on MIA, with connections to the Caribbean would be pretty well 100% leisure, which means low yield, and very little call for business class - and would make the route financially unviable, certainly for a carrier such as AA.
Once again economics rear their ugly ahead!
I'm afraid that the passenger profile on MIA, with connections to the Caribbean would be pretty well 100% leisure, which means low yield, and very little call for business class - and would make the route financially unviable, certainly for a carrier such as AA.
Once again economics rear their ugly ahead!
Correct me if I'm wrong but Thomson serve Florida quite well all the year round so my guess is that there is no need for a flag carrier on that route.
HS2
Of course PK is working on the theory that everyone will come flocking to BHX to fly out on their limited route structure. Great bring HS2 on I'll go the other way Birmingham to LHR now there's a thought - 45 mins and the world is yours. LHR will love it. Great Marketing ploy there.
HS2
Of course PK is working on the theory that everyone will come flocking to BHX to fly out on their limited route structure. Great bring HS2 on I'll go the other way Birmingham to LHR now there's a thought - 45 mins and the world is yours. LHR will love it. Great Marketing ploy there.
