CORK - 5
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Belfast, Ireland
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As someone who travels from Cork to the US frequently, connecting through Dublin is a breeze. No changing terminals as in Heathrow and of course going through US border control at Dublin saves the long INS lines you experience in the US if you arrive from anywhere from Europe with the exception of Dublin and Shannon. In the 90's I used travel through Heathrow to the US but not anymore. Heathrow is just long security lines and the hassle of changing between its 5 terminals and of course no US border control.
In the 90's, you'd always meet someone you knew on the Heathrow flight from Cork, now its always on the Dublin flights
In the 90's, you'd always meet someone you knew on the Heathrow flight from Cork, now its always on the Dublin flights
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Boston
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Cannot agree with you CCR.
I'm in the US 6 years and have done just over 70 t/a flights in that time. I would say half of them have been from ORK. I would never go thru DUB. It is a complete shambles of an airport. I always use LHR. Transferring from T1 to T3 takes me about 25 minutes. No problems. Plus going thru LHR allows me to leave much later in the day and catch evening flights back to the USA.
As for the INS lines there is no gain(unless travelling with hand luggage only). If you pre clear in DUB or SNN, you are left waiting for your bags anyway. So you may as well just be in line for INS as to be standing by a baggage claim belt. And to be honest the INS lines in the US are much more orderly than the chaos that happens when they call you in SNN/DUB.
Just my opinion.......
I'm in the US 6 years and have done just over 70 t/a flights in that time. I would say half of them have been from ORK. I would never go thru DUB. It is a complete shambles of an airport. I always use LHR. Transferring from T1 to T3 takes me about 25 minutes. No problems. Plus going thru LHR allows me to leave much later in the day and catch evening flights back to the USA.
As for the INS lines there is no gain(unless travelling with hand luggage only). If you pre clear in DUB or SNN, you are left waiting for your bags anyway. So you may as well just be in line for INS as to be standing by a baggage claim belt. And to be honest the INS lines in the US are much more orderly than the chaos that happens when they call you in SNN/DUB.
Just my opinion.......
Join Date: Mar 2003
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long runway is not even needed in cork,especially for a 757/767/330 east usa.the 330 takes off many a day to US from runway16 in DUB which is close to 17/35 in cork,ok it probably is restricted weight wise but who cares when all you need is your pax!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Unfortunately, in the current climate with oil over 100 dollars a barrel, there is a slim chance of getting a direct service to the US. However, when the aviation market recovers, there inevitably will be a direct service from Cork to New York at the very least. Would really like to know the take off performance of the 787 and the Airbus 350 for a 7,000 ft runway. As far as I'm aware only the gas guzzling 757 can take off from a 7000 ft runway on a transatlantic service from Cork without weight restrictions.
Weight restrictions matter as it forces an airline to either cut the number of passengers or cargo on full tanks.
Maybe if Mick O'Leary could be persuaded to convert a few of his 737 options to a 737-900, they could cross the atlanctic nicely from airports who have 7,000 ft runways!
Weight restrictions matter as it forces an airline to either cut the number of passengers or cargo on full tanks.
Maybe if Mick O'Leary could be persuaded to convert a few of his 737 options to a 737-900, they could cross the atlanctic nicely from airports who have 7,000 ft runways!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
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In many cases long haul aircraft break even on their costs and sometimes are profitable on cargo alone. The passengers are a bonus. In economy BA claim to make between £10 and £20 per economy ticket after tax and costs are deducted. Discount tickets are clearly subsidised from elsewhere on the aircraft, whether from business class or cargo.
This was in reply to this post.
long runway is not even needed in cork,especially for a 757/767/330 east usa.the 330 takes off many a day to US from runway16 in DUB which is close to 17/35 in cork,ok it probably is restricted weight wise but who cares when all you need is your pax!
This was in reply to this post.
long runway is not even needed in cork,especially for a 757/767/330 east usa.the 330 takes off many a day to US from runway16 in DUB which is close to 17/35 in cork,ok it probably is restricted weight wise but who cares when all you need is your pax!
Last edited by PC767; 28th Sep 2008 at 10:29. Reason: Should have quoted previous post.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cork
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With the Board of CAA recently deciding by 6 to 5 to accept a debt of €113million to finally get it’s independence, how do they propose to pay off the debt really raising charges, good bye to the carriers they have now and forget about trying to attract new carriers not to mention Transatlantic carriers. Will they sell off some land – vital for its future if indeed it has one? How much land would be sold for what price and for what development over to you Cork Airport Authority.
European destinations which are vital from Cork Airport are Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Milan, Stockholm, London City, Venice, Bordeaux, Copenhagen and Brussels and many more European destinations. Do not forget that a lot of cities that I mentioned were demanded in the survey that was carried out earlier on in the year between CAA and the Cork Chamber. Marseilles and Valencia and Madrid are other destinations which would do well from Cork, perhaps by a carrier like Jet2 or Ryanair or maybe British Midland. What is actually happening in the airport at the moment? I guess the debt situation is making the airport very uncompetitive. Now the old terminal is back in the rumours again with Rynair but the airport should actually watch out because if other carriers watch Ryanair getting a special deal from the CAA then the likes of Aer Lingus and Aer Arann and other carriers would want the same kind of deal. The new terminal is capable of handling 5million passengers or more and the place is empty half the time. Where are our local Ministers now hmmm exactly nowhere?
I am glad to hear about the recent survey carried out between Cork Airport and the Cork Chamber to assess demand for new destinations and also an increase in frequency of flights from Cork to the United Kingdom but also an increase in flights to many new European destinations particularly important German cities like Frankfurt, Cologne and Dusseldorf and Northern Italian cities like Milan, Venice, maybe Turin. An increase in flights to hubs like Paris and Amsterdam was also a key priority also a new flight to London City is another important route deemed necessary perfect for the likes of Air France to start flights to Amsterdam, Paris and London City. Hope that new flights to France, Belgium and Scandinavia were also demanded. A lot of company bosses also want to see direct all year round flights to key cities on the East Coast of America, the likes of Boston, Washington, New York, maybe Philadelphia again it shows what Cork Airport needs and the business community wants. How about Ryanair to base a 2nd aircraft to start flights to Milan, Valencia, Krakow, Venice and perhaps to somewhere like Marseilles or Biarritz. I would like to see Cork Airport attract the likes of Air France/City Jet base an aircraft start flights to Paris, London City, Bordeaux, Lyon and Cork should be aiming to double the amount of passengers to approx 6.5 to 7 million passengers within 5 years. A lot more new European destinations all year round and also long-haul flights to New York, Boston, Washington and perhaps Toronto in Canada.
European destinations which are vital from Cork Airport are Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Milan, Stockholm, London City, Venice, Bordeaux, Copenhagen and Brussels and many more European destinations. Do not forget that a lot of cities that I mentioned were demanded in the survey that was carried out earlier on in the year between CAA and the Cork Chamber. Marseilles and Valencia and Madrid are other destinations which would do well from Cork, perhaps by a carrier like Jet2 or Ryanair or maybe British Midland. What is actually happening in the airport at the moment? I guess the debt situation is making the airport very uncompetitive. Now the old terminal is back in the rumours again with Rynair but the airport should actually watch out because if other carriers watch Ryanair getting a special deal from the CAA then the likes of Aer Lingus and Aer Arann and other carriers would want the same kind of deal. The new terminal is capable of handling 5million passengers or more and the place is empty half the time. Where are our local Ministers now hmmm exactly nowhere?
I am glad to hear about the recent survey carried out between Cork Airport and the Cork Chamber to assess demand for new destinations and also an increase in frequency of flights from Cork to the United Kingdom but also an increase in flights to many new European destinations particularly important German cities like Frankfurt, Cologne and Dusseldorf and Northern Italian cities like Milan, Venice, maybe Turin. An increase in flights to hubs like Paris and Amsterdam was also a key priority also a new flight to London City is another important route deemed necessary perfect for the likes of Air France to start flights to Amsterdam, Paris and London City. Hope that new flights to France, Belgium and Scandinavia were also demanded. A lot of company bosses also want to see direct all year round flights to key cities on the East Coast of America, the likes of Boston, Washington, New York, maybe Philadelphia again it shows what Cork Airport needs and the business community wants. How about Ryanair to base a 2nd aircraft to start flights to Milan, Valencia, Krakow, Venice and perhaps to somewhere like Marseilles or Biarritz. I would like to see Cork Airport attract the likes of Air France/City Jet base an aircraft start flights to Paris, London City, Bordeaux, Lyon and Cork should be aiming to double the amount of passengers to approx 6.5 to 7 million passengers within 5 years. A lot more new European destinations all year round and also long-haul flights to New York, Boston, Washington and perhaps Toronto in Canada.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Will they sell off some land – vital for its future if indeed it has one? How much land would be sold for what price
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The terminal does not have capacity for 5 million, it has the potential to be expanded to cater for that number.
Would the half the time that you say it's "empty" be between 11:00 and 16.00? That is a quiet time in any airport relative to the morning and evening rush...
Your suggestions are a scattergun approach that I don't believe would work at all. The focus needs to be:
Cork just doesn't have the passenger base to support everything you've suggested. The above approach is more sustainable IMO.
You're right on any Ryanair deal, the debt and the land. Selling the land would be incredibly short sighted, but unfortunately they haven't been left with a lot of room for manoeuvre.
Would the half the time that you say it's "empty" be between 11:00 and 16.00? That is a quiet time in any airport relative to the morning and evening rush...
Your suggestions are a scattergun approach that I don't believe would work at all. The focus needs to be:
- Retain all current routes
- Increase frequency on key existing routes
- Add new routes to the best 4/5 potential destinations
Cork just doesn't have the passenger base to support everything you've suggested. The above approach is more sustainable IMO.
You're right on any Ryanair deal, the debt and the land. Selling the land would be incredibly short sighted, but unfortunately they haven't been left with a lot of room for manoeuvre.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
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Servicing the debt isn't that much of a problem in its own right, so long as current services can be maintained (not guaranteed in the current aviation climate).
Where it is an issue is that the airport will not be able to borrow for any future expansion. And I think we're mostly aware that in the medium term there are a number of upgrades required - extended runway, parallel taxiway, increased apron space. So that kind of thing will be dependent on government funding rather than the airport's own ability to pay for it. I'm sure if any government funding does come along, we'll see all the local Fianna Failure TDs telling us how wonderful they are for Cork Airport.
Where it is an issue is that the airport will not be able to borrow for any future expansion. And I think we're mostly aware that in the medium term there are a number of upgrades required - extended runway, parallel taxiway, increased apron space. So that kind of thing will be dependent on government funding rather than the airport's own ability to pay for it. I'm sure if any government funding does come along, we'll see all the local Fianna Failure TDs telling us how wonderful they are for Cork Airport.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Government funding???
Assuming 'independence' for the Cork Airport Authority, there will be no more government funding. That doesn't yet seem to have sunk in with many people.....an independent Cork must stand on its own commercial feet. Yes, very scary in the present circumstances.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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There will be no ongoing government subsidy. The government will still have the ability to invest in infrastructural work, as with the money that is supposed to be going for upgrade in Waterford Airport.
The CAA's position will be no different from the DAA's position at present.
It would be better if the airport had been granted independence on terms that would allow for it's future development instead of being constantly dependent on central funds.
The CAA's position will be no different from the DAA's position at present.
It would be better if the airport had been granted independence on terms that would allow for it's future development instead of being constantly dependent on central funds.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
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Cork debt
It can manage the debt if it continues to make around 15million a year but that's a big if in the current climate. As for new routes I can't see any expansion in the current economic climate, keeping traffic above 3 million in 2009 could be challenging in itself.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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The whole ORK issue is ridiculous, and mirrors our national economy, over investing in facilities that were not needed, and poorly projected managed with huge overruns. 6-7 million pax is not achievable in the current/future climate. ORK has done well to be where it is today, considering the catchment area. There are cities in the UK with a bigger population than Ireland whose airports have poorer facilities and less routes. Marrying expecatation with reality in Cork is where the problem lies. All these routes are wanted but what about the volume and the yield? I do however admire Cork for having the ability to shout loud....and very often be heard!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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There are cities in the UK with a bigger population than Ireland whose airports have poorer facilities and less routes.
The London airports are also well connected to their large catchment areas, by road and rail. This helps to explain why BHX is small relative to the size of Birmingham itself.
Compare that to Cork, SNN is almost 3 hours, DUB 4 hours, train or bus travel are not really options, making driving the only option. Even today Irelands road network does not compare to that in the UK, never mind the continent.
Has ORK done well for itself over the past few years, undoubtedly yes. But sitting on its laurels, patting itself on the back will not do the airport any good. In the current climate it will be a struggle to maintain what ORK currently offers, but attempts must be made to keep the region accessible by air, its the only way to get in or out quickly.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cork
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Iwhak,
"I do however admire Cork for having the ability to shout loud....and very often be heard!"
I don't know where you are getting that from, as nothing could be further from the truth. We have the most gutless bunch of politicians that have been thrust upon the people of Cork. McGrath, Kelleher, O'Keefe and that clown Mickey Martin hung Cork Airport out to dry. If they are shouting loud, it is probably back up their own backsides !
The obvious answer is to
1) Flog the ENTIRE Cork Airport site.
2) CPO flat, fogless land between Carrigtohill and Midleton.
3) Build an economical airport that the DAA can't get their greasy paws on, next to the new railway line and a dual carriageway.
4) Job Done.
"I do however admire Cork for having the ability to shout loud....and very often be heard!"
I don't know where you are getting that from, as nothing could be further from the truth. We have the most gutless bunch of politicians that have been thrust upon the people of Cork. McGrath, Kelleher, O'Keefe and that clown Mickey Martin hung Cork Airport out to dry. If they are shouting loud, it is probably back up their own backsides !
The obvious answer is to
1) Flog the ENTIRE Cork Airport site.
2) CPO flat, fogless land between Carrigtohill and Midleton.
3) Build an economical airport that the DAA can't get their greasy paws on, next to the new railway line and a dual carriageway.
4) Job Done.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Blimey just as well we're not in a credit crunch with stock markets crumbling etc etc
Excuse me while I snap my fingers and whistle up a brand new airport and infrastructure. I say *ppft*to belt tightening now hold this bag of money whilst I throw notes randomly down the high street.......
Excuse me while I snap my fingers and whistle up a brand new airport and infrastructure. I say *ppft*to belt tightening now hold this bag of money whilst I throw notes randomly down the high street.......
