CORK - 5
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They'd want to be very careful with the legalities of it.
As a public body, if they were to offer lower fees to Ryanair than to other airlines, they could find themselves in trouble.
Also, no point in pissing off Aer Lingus or Aer Arann. Fair enough if the new routes are genuinely new routes, but if it turns out to be Edinburgh and Paris, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot.
As a public body, if they were to offer lower fees to Ryanair than to other airlines, they could find themselves in trouble.
Also, no point in pissing off Aer Lingus or Aer Arann. Fair enough if the new routes are genuinely new routes, but if it turns out to be Edinburgh and Paris, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot.
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To be honesed im dissapointed with EI on its desision to let MAN & BHX goto RE, remember this time last year there was over 320 seats a day (WW & EI) on those routes... EMA needs to be re-added i mean it had well in excess of 70% loads in 08' , PIK i dont think so EDI is FR's main priority but who noes, FR have suspended EDI-SNN this winter. Competition at ORK never hurt anyone, EI & FR have had strong loads this summer from ORK due to discounts & more pax from SNN, WAT etc...
Remember too EI forced baby away also, maybe they need a taste of their own medicine. Although EI have always been good to ORK. BFS has 3 airlines facing competition and EI & FR are up for a good fight in Summer 2011.
Remember too EI forced baby away also, maybe they need a taste of their own medicine. Although EI have always been good to ORK. BFS has 3 airlines facing competition and EI & FR are up for a good fight in Summer 2011.
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I know EI have been predatory over the years. They moved on bmibaby, Jetmagic, Czech Airlines etc., but they always did it using the same charging structure that the airport was applying to every airline.
If a perception arises that the airport will give a deal to Ryanair that will undermine other carriers by giving them lower prices, then it would be a case of kissing goodbye to any future expansion by any other airline.
If a perception arises that the airport will give a deal to Ryanair that will undermine other carriers by giving them lower prices, then it would be a case of kissing goodbye to any future expansion by any other airline.
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I do no that EI have recieved discounts on BCN this summer due to an extra flight they applied but i think overall the CAA has been disapointed with EI this winter GVA was nearly to capacity During December-February last year it should have become year-round, or at least increased flights during the winter, but EI decided to reduce this to once per week.
If the CAA are going to launch this expansion it should be on routes we acctually need this winter with FR e.g. SXF, BGY, CIA, MAD etc... even polish routes as Wizz Air are supposed to be in dier trouble.
If the CAA are going to launch this expansion it should be on routes we acctually need this winter with FR e.g. SXF, BGY, CIA, MAD etc... even polish routes as Wizz Air are supposed to be in dier trouble.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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...Ryanair "close to a major deal"?
...it's just their way of putting pressure on the relevant airport authority, in order to get what they want.
(and blame the €10 tax, while they apply all sorts of facetious "service charges" if one has to travel with them).
There's a dogfight looming in Cork, between EI and FR.
The Airport Authority would do well not to take sides in this battle.
However, it is common knowledge that CAA management, who can see the damage that over reliance on one carrier (heaven forbid if that were ever to be FR), can do to an airport.
One only has to look at the state of short haul operation ex-shannon(before EI reinstated many of the routes FR abandoned), to see the long term peril of such over reliance.
The board of the CAA contains many unadulterated free marketeers, who cannot see beyond short-term figures.
The conflict between the two, is set to determine the fate of the airport on the hill.
Interestingly, the FR public relations contract is up for grabs at the moment €7,500 a month, is available, for those brave enough!
...it's just their way of putting pressure on the relevant airport authority, in order to get what they want.
(and blame the €10 tax, while they apply all sorts of facetious "service charges" if one has to travel with them).
There's a dogfight looming in Cork, between EI and FR.
The Airport Authority would do well not to take sides in this battle.
However, it is common knowledge that CAA management, who can see the damage that over reliance on one carrier (heaven forbid if that were ever to be FR), can do to an airport.
One only has to look at the state of short haul operation ex-shannon(before EI reinstated many of the routes FR abandoned), to see the long term peril of such over reliance.
The board of the CAA contains many unadulterated free marketeers, who cannot see beyond short-term figures.
The conflict between the two, is set to determine the fate of the airport on the hill.
Interestingly, the FR public relations contract is up for grabs at the moment €7,500 a month, is available, for those brave enough!
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EI
Was there any reason why Berlin-Schönefeld was dropped in Mach 2010.
Aer Lingus also served Madrid, Prague and Warsaw from ORK. They should restart Warsaw when W6 end the route.
Aer Lingus also served Madrid, Prague and Warsaw from ORK. They should restart Warsaw when W6 end the route.
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To upgrade MAN & BHX to daily which they will be soon dropping to RE! 
Jamie2k9 - You see re-adding MAD, PRG & WAW with EI would invlove returing the 4th a/c but EI are too stubern to develop their services at ORK the last new routes we've seen introduced was 08' LIS (Survived), RNS (dropped), JER (dropped). Fair enough the A320 maybe too big for these routes, but instead of giving a lousey once per week service to GVA give it too say a new Salzburg route, and increase GVA from ORK using ORK based a/c !
Jamie2k9 - You see re-adding MAD, PRG & WAW with EI would invlove returing the 4th a/c but EI are too stubern to develop their services at ORK the last new routes we've seen introduced was 08' LIS (Survived), RNS (dropped), JER (dropped). Fair enough the A320 maybe too big for these routes, but instead of giving a lousey once per week service to GVA give it too say a new Salzburg route, and increase GVA from ORK using ORK based a/c !
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To upgrade MAN & BHX to daily which they will be soon dropping to RE!
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Ryanair and Cork
I'm surprised to read that Ryanair received any discounts for their new summer routes from Cork. All of them apart from La Rochelle and Bordeaux are already operated by Aerlingus so my understanding is that they do not qualify for new route support.
I'd say the same will apply to any existing routes that Ryanair might choose to compete on for the winter.
Certainly any move by them to move in to the UK provincial airports from Cork will put the fledgling Aer Arann/ Aerlingus alliance under massive pressure.
I think management at Cork have a delicate balancing here. On the one hand they need to keep Aerlingus on board. However the decision by them to withdraw the 4th plane for the winter coupled with their lack of expansion at Cork since 2006 must be making them wonder if Ryanair offer the only chance of any serious growth.
Aerlingus went head to head with CSA on Prague, BMI Baby on Manchester and Birmingham and having driven out the competition then withdrew from the routes.
Furthermore there has been a number of subtle changes to their route network since 2006 which have seen them withdraw from Cities such as Warsaw, Prague, Berlin and Madrid in favour of bucket and shovel routes to Spain and Portugal which were already being well served by Charter operators.
This has greatly impacted on the I.T. charters at Cork. All of this is perfectly legitimate but the challenge for the CAA is to grow the traffic and Ryanair might just be the best option for doing that.
I'd say the same will apply to any existing routes that Ryanair might choose to compete on for the winter.
Certainly any move by them to move in to the UK provincial airports from Cork will put the fledgling Aer Arann/ Aerlingus alliance under massive pressure.
I think management at Cork have a delicate balancing here. On the one hand they need to keep Aerlingus on board. However the decision by them to withdraw the 4th plane for the winter coupled with their lack of expansion at Cork since 2006 must be making them wonder if Ryanair offer the only chance of any serious growth.
Aerlingus went head to head with CSA on Prague, BMI Baby on Manchester and Birmingham and having driven out the competition then withdrew from the routes.
Furthermore there has been a number of subtle changes to their route network since 2006 which have seen them withdraw from Cities such as Warsaw, Prague, Berlin and Madrid in favour of bucket and shovel routes to Spain and Portugal which were already being well served by Charter operators.
This has greatly impacted on the I.T. charters at Cork. All of this is perfectly legitimate but the challenge for the CAA is to grow the traffic and Ryanair might just be the best option for doing that.
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Originally Posted by ryan2000
However the decision by them to withdraw the 4th plane for the winter coupled with their lack of expansion at Cork since 2006 must be making them wonder if Ryanair offer the only chance of any serious growth.
Originally Posted by ryan2000
Aerlingus went head to head with CSA on Prague, BMI Baby on Manchester and Birmingham and having driven out the competition then withdrew from the routes.
In fact they'll be going double daily on MAN and BHX under Aer Lingus Regional soon.
Originally Posted by ryan2000
Furthermore there has been a number of subtle changes to their route network since 2006 which have seen them withdraw from Cities such as Warsaw, Prague, Berlin and Madrid in favour of bucket and shovel routes to Spain and Portugal which were already being well served by Charter operators.
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Aerlingus Regional is nothing more than a marketing name for Aer Arann. My point is that Aerlingus has gone for consolidation rather than growth at Cork since 2006.
Ryanair may be more capable of delivering real growth. I agree that any deal has to be sustainable for both the airport and Ryanair.
Cork is where the majority of people in the South of the Country live and it may just about be able to sustain a 2 to 3 aircraft base by Ryanair as well as the existing Aerlingus route network.
The main losers if this scenario unfolds could be what's left of the tour operators and Aer Arann if Ryanair target their UK provincial routes.
I don't see Ryanair going head to head with Wizz as they generally avoid each other.
Ryanair may be more capable of delivering real growth. I agree that any deal has to be sustainable for both the airport and Ryanair.
Cork is where the majority of people in the South of the Country live and it may just about be able to sustain a 2 to 3 aircraft base by Ryanair as well as the existing Aerlingus route network.
The main losers if this scenario unfolds could be what's left of the tour operators and Aer Arann if Ryanair target their UK provincial routes.
I don't see Ryanair going head to head with Wizz as they generally avoid each other.
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Ryanair won't expand to the UK from Cork as they had East-Midlands & Glasgow PIK and they didn't do well. BmiBaby East-Midlands route was very poor also.
Cork has the main UK routes covered:
Glasgow - EI
Edinburgh - EI
Liverpool - FR
Manchester - EI
Newcastle - LS
Birmingham - EI
Cardiff - EI
Bristol - EI
London H - EI
London S - FR
London G - EI & FR
If RYR were to expand into the UK some of the routes wouldn't be operated daily as there a/c are to big to serve some of the routes and they wouldn't provide the flights at good times like EI are doing with MAN and BHX from Oct.
Its mainly people who live in Co. Cork who use the UK routes as Waterford has BHX, MAN and LTN. Kerry has LTN, L.STN & MAN as well as UK routes from SNN.
Cork - Prague was served by EI and CSA so that route won't return as FR are leaving Prague.
Malév Hungarian Airlines served Budapest and it was dropped and FR are leaving Budapest.
If you look at RYR routes from Madrid you see that they mainly operate to the capitial city of a country and some major cities eg. London, Dublin, Oslo, Paris, Rome, Brussles, Frankfurt, Milan, Venice & Malta etc.
Berlin would do well if RYR had it and the only route to Poland would be Krakow but W6 would have to end Katowice before that would happon. Milan BGY and Venice Treviso would do well as they did in SNN but they would only be seasonal.
Cork has the main UK routes covered:
Glasgow - EI
Edinburgh - EI
Liverpool - FR
Manchester - EI
Newcastle - LS
Birmingham - EI
Cardiff - EI
Bristol - EI
London H - EI
London S - FR
London G - EI & FR
If RYR were to expand into the UK some of the routes wouldn't be operated daily as there a/c are to big to serve some of the routes and they wouldn't provide the flights at good times like EI are doing with MAN and BHX from Oct.
Its mainly people who live in Co. Cork who use the UK routes as Waterford has BHX, MAN and LTN. Kerry has LTN, L.STN & MAN as well as UK routes from SNN.
Cork - Prague was served by EI and CSA so that route won't return as FR are leaving Prague.
Malév Hungarian Airlines served Budapest and it was dropped and FR are leaving Budapest.
If you look at RYR routes from Madrid you see that they mainly operate to the capitial city of a country and some major cities eg. London, Dublin, Oslo, Paris, Rome, Brussles, Frankfurt, Milan, Venice & Malta etc.
Berlin would do well if RYR had it and the only route to Poland would be Krakow but W6 would have to end Katowice before that would happon. Milan BGY and Venice Treviso would do well as they did in SNN but they would only be seasonal.
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Ryanair expansion at ORK
Is this actually true? would be a very welcome boost to the city and county..like at DUB EI have had their day and their chance to do something with ORK and they failed in doing it. FR can generate significant traffic and bring in tourists..I believe this would be a great move for the CAA. Let FR develop new routes..business is business, an opportunity like this should be capaitalised on if it is true
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Originally Posted by ryan2000
Aerlingus Regional is nothing more than a marketing name for Aer Arann.
Originally Posted by ryan2000
My point is that Aerlingus has gone for consolidation rather than growth at Cork since 2006.
I know Aer Lingus have reduced capacity at Cork, but they've also reduced capacity at all their other bases too, so don't be goin on as if Cork is the only airport to suffer from consolidation. At least you can credit Aer Lingus and Aer Arann with actually growing their network out of Cork at a time when the CAA have been shafting airlines with stupidly high charges. Ryanair on the other hand have done nothing for Cork, and the only time they actually increased capacity was to drive Aer Arann off the Dublin route, and what do yeh know - they succeeded.
Originally Posted by ryan2000
Ryanair may be more capable of delivering real growth.
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At last, worthy debate on the subject of Cork Airport.
So, in line with the size of aircraft debate, that runs through the few previous posts, would it not be reasonable to consider one of the new generation regional jets?
Bombardier did not make Dublin one of their stops on their recent European sales tour, for nothing.
They'd love to sell it to EI or FR.
The EMB 170-195 family(look at the recent flybe order for 100+)
The Sukhoi RRJ..(huge long shot........)
Mitsubishi's upcoming offering..
My main point is that would these aircrafts' economics not ideally suit Cork, with it's many "thin" routes?
I reckon so.
So, in line with the size of aircraft debate, that runs through the few previous posts, would it not be reasonable to consider one of the new generation regional jets?
Bombardier did not make Dublin one of their stops on their recent European sales tour, for nothing.
They'd love to sell it to EI or FR.
The EMB 170-195 family(look at the recent flybe order for 100+)
The Sukhoi RRJ..(huge long shot........)
Mitsubishi's upcoming offering..
My main point is that would these aircrafts' economics not ideally suit Cork, with it's many "thin" routes?
I reckon so.
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Originally Posted by peacock1
Bombardier did not make Dublin one of their stops on their recent European sales tour, for nothing.
They'd love to sell it to EI or FR.
They'd love to sell it to EI or FR.
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The first delivery of the Bombardier C series aircraft is not until 2013 at the earliest. The aviation business will be well on the rebound by then..Now is the time to get a great deal from Bombardier if Aer Arann has the courage and foresight. Also they should take a look at the new Sukhoi and forthcoming Mitsubishi regional jets.
All 3 aircraft makers desperately need to make a success of their new regional jets.
Not ruling out Embraer either, look at FlyBe, apparently they got a great deal for their Embraer 170 regional jets.
All 3 aircraft makers desperately need to make a success of their new regional jets.
Not ruling out Embraer either, look at FlyBe, apparently they got a great deal for their Embraer 170 regional jets.
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CAA & DAA meeting on Monday morning. Outcome expected sometime in the afternoon. Also Aer Lingus have confirmed they will be returing 4 a/c for Summer 11 to be announced November 2010.
Also FR routes to FAO will continue to recieve discounts during winter as it was usually suspended by EI these months and classified as ''seasonal'' but ACE & AGP will not as they will be charged the exact amount as EI. CAA gave 0% charges for all FR sun routes (7) for June to August only, and gave discounts to EI also including Barcelona, London-Gatwick & Tenerife.
Will have to see what new routes FR will add if approved on Monday. But i think FAO, ACE & AGP are going ahead anyway.
Also FR routes to FAO will continue to recieve discounts during winter as it was usually suspended by EI these months and classified as ''seasonal'' but ACE & AGP will not as they will be charged the exact amount as EI. CAA gave 0% charges for all FR sun routes (7) for June to August only, and gave discounts to EI also including Barcelona, London-Gatwick & Tenerife.
Will have to see what new routes FR will add if approved on Monday. But i think FAO, ACE & AGP are going ahead anyway.