CORK - 5
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parking at Cork
That's fine if they're prepared to allow stands 15-19 be used by a multitude of business aircraft. I've never them it used in that way although I take your point. There's also the counter argument that the area should be kept free in the unlikely event that it's needed for a wide body.
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I've never them it used in that way although I take your point. There's also the counter argument that the area should be kept free in the unlikely event that it's needed for a wide body.
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Early indications are that Aer Arann are hoping to base a 3rd ATR at Cork next year. If EI or FR decide to put in an extra aircraft, things could get congested as far as overnight parking is concerned. Very few airports use their main apron for General Aviation. Cork has had plans for a special parking area for such aircraft since the late 1990's and it'd be great if they were finally implemented.
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Ryan really don't know why you're so focused on this, there's stands free every night since the 2005 expansion, I mean look at Luton where there's space for a BizJet its parked the same can be done at Cork, there's plenty of room for expansion - If anything, any new funding should be directed toward the extension of the runway or demolition of the old terminal with replacement administration offices - Money's tight and to provide new parking when the existing one isn't full to capacity is a bit idiotic.
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Luton manage to pack them in. Unfortunately there were numerous occasions in the 2005-8 period when jets carrying Company Executives, high spending tourists and potential investors were told that they'd have to reposition in Kerry or Shannon if they needed to overnight.
I know the situation has improved since then largely because of the fact that the 3 Freighters that used to park all day at Cork for DHL, UPS and TNT have gone. As long as Cork and the IAA stick to the one stand one aircraft policy there is a strong possibility of those days returning.
I hope I'm wrong but has anything changed in relation to parking policy since 2008?
I know the situation has improved since then largely because of the fact that the 3 Freighters that used to park all day at Cork for DHL, UPS and TNT have gone. As long as Cork and the IAA stick to the one stand one aircraft policy there is a strong possibility of those days returning.
I hope I'm wrong but has anything changed in relation to parking policy since 2008?
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As long as Cork and the IAA stick to the one stand one aircraft policy there is a strong possibility of those days returning.
I hope I'm wrong but has anything changed in relation to parking policy since 2008?
I hope I'm wrong but has anything changed in relation to parking policy since 2008?
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All of Cork stands with the exception of stand 1 are marked out for airliners of various sizes. I'm informed that only one aircraft is allowed park in each stand whether it's a 757 or a light business jet. Therefore you regularly have stands 1,2,3 and 4 occupied by business jets.
In airports throughout europe they manage to park them much closer together and save ramp space. If common sense prevailed it'd be possible to park two or 3 biz jets or biz props in a stand marked out for an A321 or B757 but it's one stand one aircraft in Cork and I'm told the IAA insist on this.
In airports throughout europe they manage to park them much closer together and save ramp space. If common sense prevailed it'd be possible to park two or 3 biz jets or biz props in a stand marked out for an A321 or B757 but it's one stand one aircraft in Cork and I'm told the IAA insist on this.
Cork Airport is owned by the DAA.
IAA has ZERO responsibility for parking of A/C
They merely relay stand 's allocated by the airport operator.
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...CK_24-2_en.pdf
From the AIP which gives the largest A/C which can use a given stand.
Stand design/layout and allocation will be influenced by what services will be needed and safety is paramount.
ICAO Annex 14 and all its subsidiary Doc's will lay down dimensions to be followed.
The airport operator will allocate stands based what services are to be provided and what other traffic is expected.
IAA has ZERO responsibility for parking of A/C
They merely relay stand 's allocated by the airport operator.
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...CK_24-2_en.pdf
From the AIP which gives the largest A/C which can use a given stand.
Stand design/layout and allocation will be influenced by what services will be needed and safety is paramount.
ICAO Annex 14 and all its subsidiary Doc's will lay down dimensions to be followed.
but it's one stand one aircraft in Cork and I'm told the IAA insist on this
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confused atco
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Good question. Time to bite the bullet lads and answer the query.
There are five bizjets on the ground at the moment. If I had the dough I would get a sixth in just to see what would happen!
There are five bizjets on the ground at the moment. If I had the dough I would get a sixth in just to see what would happen!
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Has discretion ever been use to park more than 1 biz jet in any marked out stand? Why not google earth overseas airport and see how many they fit In. Glad to hear that the IAA have nothing to do with stand allocation at Cork. So the next time Munster get to a Heineken Cup Final, it won't be down to them if only one widebody is allowed in at a time. I'm all for allowing duty staff in the OCC use their own discretion and common sense about these matters. It's crazy seeing a small Learjet occupying a stand marked out for an airliner and not allowing a second light jet park along side it.
While the IAA may not be responsible for the day to day management of stand allocation do they have any objection to more than one aircraft parking on a designated stand. That's the critical question as I see it.
While the IAA may not be responsible for the day to day management of stand allocation do they have any objection to more than one aircraft parking on a designated stand. That's the critical question as I see it.
Last edited by ryan2000; 18th Jun 2013 at 20:10.
[quote]While the IAA may not be responsible for the day to day management of stand allocation do they have any objection to more than one aircraft parking on a designated stand. That's the critical question as I see it. [QUOTE]
Why should IAA get involved in parking of A/C?
The DAA own the airport.
Not an ATC issue.
of course physically you can put something of the order of 10 C172 on a stand used by a A320/B737 but why would you do this?
Regarding Executive jets
Simple
If no stand allocated then A/C lands and is told to follow the marshal.
If no marshal then A/C holds on Taxiway until stand becomes available.
Once Taxiway is full the next A/C lands on the Runway and the Airport is closed.
In the real world executive jets do not "just turn up". Arrangements and handling are made before arrival is scheduled.
If the Airport cannot accommodate the flight then it simply has to agree a convenient arrival time with the DAA when it can be accommodated.
Please tell me how many wide body A/C Cork can accommodate?
Why should IAA get involved in parking of A/C?
The DAA own the airport.
For all the bluster, neither of you have said conclusively whether multiple GA/small aircraft can be parked on a single stand. Can this be done?
of course physically you can put something of the order of 10 C172 on a stand used by a A320/B737 but why would you do this?
Regarding Executive jets
Good question. Time to bite the bullet lads and answer the query.
There are five bizjets on the ground at the moment. If I had the dough I would get a sixth in just to see what would happen!
There are five bizjets on the ground at the moment. If I had the dough I would get a sixth in just to see what would happen!
If no stand allocated then A/C lands and is told to follow the marshal.
If no marshal then A/C holds on Taxiway until stand becomes available.
Once Taxiway is full the next A/C lands on the Runway and the Airport is closed.
In the real world executive jets do not "just turn up". Arrangements and handling are made before arrival is scheduled.
If the Airport cannot accommodate the flight then it simply has to agree a convenient arrival time with the DAA when it can be accommodated.
only one widebody is allowed in at a time
Last edited by confused atco; 18th Jun 2013 at 22:41.
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Yeah sorry lads, you still haven't answered the bloody question. Are Cork Airport (I don't care whether ATC, ops or the janitor) allowed to put more than one aircraft on a stand?
@catco you oddly asked why they would want to put more than one aircraft on a stand? Have you seen the previous posts?! You would do it to boost capacity. Do keep up.
@catco you oddly asked why they would want to put more than one aircraft on a stand? Have you seen the previous posts?! You would do it to boost capacity. Do keep up.
check the link to AIP Ireland posted earlier.
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...CK_24-2_en.pdf
This is the "declared" capacity for Cork in terms of what can be accommodated on each stand.
I would like to draw your attention to the notes 1 & 2 regarding responsibilities at the airport.
The markings are laid out so when the nose wheel is at the appropriate marking the wing tip clearance is within the required tolerance.
These markings should conform to international regulations.
Wishful thinking is not going to change it.
Potentially you can do anything you want until regulations are applied.
My car can potentially do 120kph but should I do that in a built up area?
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...CK_24-2_en.pdf
This is the "declared" capacity for Cork in terms of what can be accommodated on each stand.
I would like to draw your attention to the notes 1 & 2 regarding responsibilities at the airport.
The markings are laid out so when the nose wheel is at the appropriate marking the wing tip clearance is within the required tolerance.
These markings should conform to international regulations.
Wishful thinking is not going to change it.
Are Cork Airport (I don't care whether ATC, ops or the janitor) allowed to put more than one aircraft on a stand?
My car can potentially do 120kph but should I do that in a built up area?
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It has been an interesting topic and the debate has been lively too!
Well, the sixth bizjet aircraft did arrive last night too!
It has been a shame that the airport has not been able to attract a flying visit from all the Thomson Boeing 787 flying activity at snn - even if it was for as much as a simple low approach and go around and back to snn or wherever.
Great that the grass is being cut by the local farmers so that it may be used as fodder for the coming winter period. Nice to see yesterday.
Well, the sixth bizjet aircraft did arrive last night too!
It has been a shame that the airport has not been able to attract a flying visit from all the Thomson Boeing 787 flying activity at snn - even if it was for as much as a simple low approach and go around and back to snn or wherever.
Great that the grass is being cut by the local farmers so that it may be used as fodder for the coming winter period. Nice to see yesterday.
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@confusedatco
If I am interpreting your comments, none of which are explicit, you are saying that the airport cannot park more than one aircraft at a marked stand, yes or no?
No idea what you are talking about on regulations and cars...what I am asking is if Cork Airport can park more than one aircraft at one stand. Of course that is in accordance with the regulations. I'm not suggesting an approach which is in contravention with the regulations, I just want a straight answer.
ps those responsibilities marked on the chart relate to control of surface traffic and to integrity of data, so not sure what relevance they have here?
If I am interpreting your comments, none of which are explicit, you are saying that the airport cannot park more than one aircraft at a marked stand, yes or no?
No idea what you are talking about on regulations and cars...what I am asking is if Cork Airport can park more than one aircraft at one stand. Of course that is in accordance with the regulations. I'm not suggesting an approach which is in contravention with the regulations, I just want a straight answer.
ps those responsibilities marked on the chart relate to control of surface traffic and to integrity of data, so not sure what relevance they have here?
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Post deleted? I mean seriously?
I've answered that.
what I am asking is if Cork Airport can park more than one aircraft at one stand. Of course that is in accordance with the regulations. I'm not suggesting an approach which is in contravention with the regulations, I just want a straight answer.
marshaller parking on Stands 19 through to 15 for Medium to Small BizJet's which provides space more than 10 aircraft.
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Confused_atco I think your living up to your name. Regarding the IAA and Stand allocation that Ryan2000 is talking about. The IAA as id hope you are aware (if they are your employers!) do more than just ATC. To keep it simple, relevant and straight to the point, when the new stands were marked out at Cork airport they have to be certified by the IAA's Safety Regulation Division (SRD) more specifically the Aeronautical Services Dept (ASD) for compliance with ICAO recommendations. So the ASD sign off on the lovely new stands and everything is great. The Airport ask the ASD "To boost capacity if we're stuck can we park 2 or 3 learjets side on in that stand designed for a B757. The ASD might say "Yes..provided they are marshalled or towed into position and are fully contained within that stands dimensions so as not to infringe the vehicle access roads or the stands either side" or the might say "No..F**k off!"
Nothing to do with ATC but everything to do with the IAA.
I think what Ryan and Angry Rebel are asking is does anyone know which answer was given!
Of course regardless of what the ASD might have approved the Airport Authority will have their own parameters.
I believe Jack1985 is saying that up to 10 small to medium bizjets can be parked together on stands 15 to 19, (10 aircraft on stands designed for 5) the remaining stands only permit one aircraft per stand.
Nothing to do with ATC but everything to do with the IAA.
I think what Ryan and Angry Rebel are asking is does anyone know which answer was given!
Of course regardless of what the ASD might have approved the Airport Authority will have their own parameters.
I believe Jack1985 is saying that up to 10 small to medium bizjets can be parked together on stands 15 to 19, (10 aircraft on stands designed for 5) the remaining stands only permit one aircraft per stand.
Last edited by Sky Conductor; 20th Jun 2013 at 10:55.