LONDON CITY - 2
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Apologies BALaddy!
I actually tried to book on ba.com for dates in late April and early May and the only weekday offering was a connection over Europe, can't remember where, possibly Brussels. It was also showing as blank on London City Airport : Homepage and having checked ACARS database search - acarsd ACARS Decoder for Linux and Windows there were no movements after March.
Was it suspended at all? There do seem to be clear periods when it just doesn't operate. Certainly the Sunday service was very random.
It started twice daily for the business market then the morning flight was removed from all bar Monday.
I actually tried to book on ba.com for dates in late April and early May and the only weekday offering was a connection over Europe, can't remember where, possibly Brussels. It was also showing as blank on London City Airport : Homepage and having checked ACARS database search - acarsd ACARS Decoder for Linux and Windows there were no movements after March.
Was it suspended at all? There do seem to be clear periods when it just doesn't operate. Certainly the Sunday service was very random.
Interesting to see that Sunair's morning flight operates only MTuWed. At "normal" airports, Tu & Wed tend to be the weakest days of the week. This makes me wondering how the situation at LCY is - is the number passengers more evenly balanced than at other airports? Or are passengers numbers even higher on those days that are weak at other airports?
Thread Starter
At "normal" airports, Tu & Wed tend to be the weakest days of the week. This makes me wondering how the situation at LCY is
Those who have travelled out for the whole working week are laid on top of this, and will return on Friday (or often on Thursday instead, to have the Friday at their own office), but will typically return on the evening flights, so the demand for the morning flights drops off as the week progresses.
Weekend and other "leisure" traffic is laid on top of this again, there didn't used to be a great amount of this at LCY but it appears to be an increasing proportion. This tends to be an outward on Friday evening (not morning) demand, returning Sunday evening or Monday morning.
The upshot of all this is that demand for morning LCY flights tends to drop as the working week progresses, while demand for evening flights increases. So "busy days" have to be considered with different fluctuating demands within the day. There are other combinations. Friday evening may be the passenger peak of the week, but demand for business/first class on short haul flights at that time is actually quite low.
Thread Starter
Quite different topic, but just back from a few days in Barcelona (by BA from LCY), and being over the extended hols, and by the seaside (that should be “seaside”), Mrs WHBM 
came along for the trip.
Always good to get comments from less-regular City Airport users, but Mrs W said that LCY is steadily losing its feel of an easy to use terminal, and I see the point. But when she says “and becoming downmarket”, it makes you think. Her first time through the new round-the houses security arrangements, and we both commented that we remember when LCY used to try and have professional-calibre personnel here. Not sure if the security staff have now been outsourced to the lowest bidder, but the queue marshalling announcer was unable to speak English clearly, which we thought might have been a requisite for the job, while the door checker was like someone rejected from the Little Britain cast for being just too stereotypically jobsworth, dour-faced, and desperate to give as many passengers as possible a bollocking. How did our so-called premium business airport come down to this ?
The old security entrance is now disappearing, and currently presents a mass of half-finished blockwork, scattered mortar, and suchlike, right alongside the security queue. Shops doing alterations on their trading floor know all about screening works from customers to continue to present a good image; presumably the small extra cost of doing this was rejected.
Some zealous salesman has however managed to sell the airport a set of self-operated Boarding Card bar-code reader entry gates to the security area, which don’t seem to achieve anything that the previous manual check didn’t, given that a checker is still required, and which the bulk of the passengers going through found counter intuitive and couldn’t immediately understand how to use them, so they caused a backup in their own right. Because of the press of passengers waiting to use them it is not until you get there that you find each person needs to process themselves individually, so groups with one person holding all the BCs took time to distribute these among themselves. Now in my day job I am meant to know a thing or two about bar code readers, and these seemed far too sensitive to precise handling, an issue which other manufacturers in the industry cracked long ago. But maybe they don’t have such zealous salesmen.
I’m not quite certain how it is that LCY continues to add security channels and queuing areas, the actual security check itself is no different, the passenger numbers have not exactly skyrocketed in recent years, and yet it still takes progressively longer and longer to get through. Is there any rationale behind this ?
The new security area exits in a strange way into the lounge at the back, and if you didn’t remember the old layout many might turn the wrong way. The nice extension to this area done a couple of years ago seems to have been lost, and I get the feeling that because the old days of the 10 minute check-in (remember those fondly) have gone, people now spend longer in the LCY lounge area. Despite which the refreshments offered somehow seem to miss the mark.
Does anyone ever eat at those restaurant tables, strangely set up in the corridor to gates 21-24 ? I’ve never seen anyone at them.
Departure from what I still call "new" Gate 22. Despite these being new facilities, the old London City issue of passengers having to queue at gates down the steep stairs, with the gate check directly at their foot, is still present, and we all have to stand unsteadily and hope that nobody behind us misses their footing as we shuffle downwards. How this continues to get past a meaningful Health & Safety review I cannot imagine.
By the way, notwithstanding APD, travelling at Easter, booking less than a week before, BA standard cabin service with hot meals and drinks, and everything else, it cost me less to fly London to Barcelona return than to take the train I am currently sat in from London Paddington to Newport, South Wales, sat in cattle class like something from Ryanair ! Yes, really. So well done aviation, on the commercial side.
came along for the trip.Always good to get comments from less-regular City Airport users, but Mrs W said that LCY is steadily losing its feel of an easy to use terminal, and I see the point. But when she says “and becoming downmarket”, it makes you think. Her first time through the new round-the houses security arrangements, and we both commented that we remember when LCY used to try and have professional-calibre personnel here. Not sure if the security staff have now been outsourced to the lowest bidder, but the queue marshalling announcer was unable to speak English clearly, which we thought might have been a requisite for the job, while the door checker was like someone rejected from the Little Britain cast for being just too stereotypically jobsworth, dour-faced, and desperate to give as many passengers as possible a bollocking. How did our so-called premium business airport come down to this ?
The old security entrance is now disappearing, and currently presents a mass of half-finished blockwork, scattered mortar, and suchlike, right alongside the security queue. Shops doing alterations on their trading floor know all about screening works from customers to continue to present a good image; presumably the small extra cost of doing this was rejected.
Some zealous salesman has however managed to sell the airport a set of self-operated Boarding Card bar-code reader entry gates to the security area, which don’t seem to achieve anything that the previous manual check didn’t, given that a checker is still required, and which the bulk of the passengers going through found counter intuitive and couldn’t immediately understand how to use them, so they caused a backup in their own right. Because of the press of passengers waiting to use them it is not until you get there that you find each person needs to process themselves individually, so groups with one person holding all the BCs took time to distribute these among themselves. Now in my day job I am meant to know a thing or two about bar code readers, and these seemed far too sensitive to precise handling, an issue which other manufacturers in the industry cracked long ago. But maybe they don’t have such zealous salesmen.
I’m not quite certain how it is that LCY continues to add security channels and queuing areas, the actual security check itself is no different, the passenger numbers have not exactly skyrocketed in recent years, and yet it still takes progressively longer and longer to get through. Is there any rationale behind this ?
The new security area exits in a strange way into the lounge at the back, and if you didn’t remember the old layout many might turn the wrong way. The nice extension to this area done a couple of years ago seems to have been lost, and I get the feeling that because the old days of the 10 minute check-in (remember those fondly) have gone, people now spend longer in the LCY lounge area. Despite which the refreshments offered somehow seem to miss the mark.
Does anyone ever eat at those restaurant tables, strangely set up in the corridor to gates 21-24 ? I’ve never seen anyone at them.
Departure from what I still call "new" Gate 22. Despite these being new facilities, the old London City issue of passengers having to queue at gates down the steep stairs, with the gate check directly at their foot, is still present, and we all have to stand unsteadily and hope that nobody behind us misses their footing as we shuffle downwards. How this continues to get past a meaningful Health & Safety review I cannot imagine.
By the way, notwithstanding APD, travelling at Easter, booking less than a week before, BA standard cabin service with hot meals and drinks, and everything else, it cost me less to fly London to Barcelona return than to take the train I am currently sat in from London Paddington to Newport, South Wales, sat in cattle class like something from Ryanair ! Yes, really. So well done aviation, on the commercial side.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Bombadier C series for LCY ?
Bombardier's predicted CSeries order momentum is continuing after the airframer secured a firm order for three CS100 aircraft from an unnamed customer.
Bombardier stated based on list prices for the CS100, the order is valued at $186 million, and if the unnamed customer exercises options it has taken for three additional aircraft, the total value of the agreement could reach $385 million. Deliveries to the carrier are scheduled to begin in 2014. While Bombardier said the carrier requested to remain unidentified, the airframer assured the customer was a "well-established airline".
BA LCY to New York, options for LCY to Dubai anyone ?
I know that there's a lot of traffic between London and Dubai, but I'm not sure I see a compelling advantage in flights from LCY to Dubai / Abu Dhabi.
For all the noise it makes, Dubai as a financial centre is not considered yet to be in a the global top tier.
Yes, a route from LCY to the UAE does give easy access to all the people in Canary Wharf, but the time saving involved on a route from London to Tokyo, HK or Singapore would presumably be quite limited, compared to a direct flight from Heathrow
Is the business case really there ?
For all the noise it makes, Dubai as a financial centre is not considered yet to be in a the global top tier.
Yes, a route from LCY to the UAE does give easy access to all the people in Canary Wharf, but the time saving involved on a route from London to Tokyo, HK or Singapore would presumably be quite limited, compared to a direct flight from Heathrow
Is the business case really there ?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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Cityjet to begin replacing the Avro146
If they do decide to change the choices will obviously be limited to those aircraft certified or likely to be certified to land at LCY. Would assume another jet type.
-Embraer 190, 170
-Airbus 318 (I think most unlikely due to higher op costs)
-C Series (if certified)
-Dash 8 Q400 for F50s?
-ATR 72 for F50s?
Can't think of any other types. Would like to see C Series getting an order, but the type would need to be tested and it is not even flying yet.
C Series is expected to do 1st flight late 2012, a bit of way to go yet!
EI-BUD
Thread Starter
Like a large number of operators, Cityjet has never bought a new aircraft before, so there's no compelling reason why they should do so now. They have not long ago finished rolling over their jet fleet from a motley collection of older 146s from different sources for a nicely consistent fleet of more recent Avro RJs, which can last them for the next 10 years or so, by which time types such as the Embraer 170 should start to appear on the secondhand market.
For the prop types the F50s will probably come to the end of their time a bit sooner. There are a range of types that could replace those, I do feel the Q400 is a bit large, even secondhand, if you look at their average load factors on their prop routes.
For the prop types the F50s will probably come to the end of their time a bit sooner. There are a range of types that could replace those, I do feel the Q400 is a bit large, even secondhand, if you look at their average load factors on their prop routes.
Thread Starter
In case people had missed it, the City Airport airshow/funday is back this year, a week tomorrow on Saturday July 2.
London City Airport : News release
Not quite certain if it's like previous years as the publicity says it's in the Royals Business Park, opposite the airport (across the dock) - does that mean the airport is not part of it unlike previous airshow years (I know there was no airshow at all last year).
London City Airport : News release
Not quite certain if it's like previous years as the publicity says it's in the Royals Business Park, opposite the airport (across the dock) - does that mean the airport is not part of it unlike previous airshow years (I know there was no airshow at all last year).
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Coventry
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Olympic cable car 'at risk from City Airport planes'
Sorry if this is old for some, but I thought it was so outrageous I had to mention it. If anything in this article were remotely true, it should read 'City Airport planes at risk from Olympic cable car!'I thought FoE's job was to look after the environment, since when have they been appointed as guardians of public safety? And speaking of which, shouldn't they be pointing out that the whole Olympic games concept is an enourmous wastage of steel & concrete for just 2 weeks' usage!
Much as though I love cable cars, they tend to be most useful where there is a gradient to climb - creating a huge tensile structure to go over flat docks is highly inefficient - don't FoE have engineers to tell them this.
So I think that's a big shut up to FoE on 3 counts. Oh and the whole tax the crap out of everyone without building the high speed rail infrastructure first, then complain that a double hit of APD on domestic flights is STILL not enought - think that makes 4!
Not that FoE will have many supporters on these forums but the rant was needed anyway!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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New security search area
First trip via City and the new security search area... they have got rid of that overpriced bar at the top of the escalators. Well impressive and spacious and hardly any queues and on a Friday afternoon too.... good stuff. .
Thread Starter
I've just noticed, on passing, that the Jet Centre, which I believe was LCY-owned, has been completely resigned and badged as NetJets. Has it been sold ? When did this happenn ?
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I note that LCY is asking for feedback on its website about possible flights to DUS, HAM, BUD, VIE, FCO and OPO. IIRC, with the exception of OPO and BUD, all have been served in the past.
Maybe some hope for new routes (provided that the rioters do not flatten LCY tonight....
) Realistically, only BA would make sense on them after Star Alliance failed on DUS, HAM and VIE.
Maybe some hope for new routes (provided that the rioters do not flatten LCY tonight....
) Realistically, only BA would make sense on them after Star Alliance failed on DUS, HAM and VIE.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Dose anyone know if Eastern Airways own slots at London City?
I know they use to operate there own service from Newcastle in the past plus Air Southwest use to fly the Newquay/Plymouth route as well.
I know they use to operate there own service from Newcastle in the past plus Air Southwest use to fly the Newquay/Plymouth route as well.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
WHBM, no, LCY hasn't been sold. NetJets decided to be "bold" in some key locations. EGLC is one of those places.