LONDON CITY - 2

[WHBM]

The circling aircraft was actually holding on the NDB which is on the field at London City. Alkin is out in North Kent, and as suggested above was likely already full.

Back to the fate of certain 146s, supposedly more my area of knowledge. Of the four Air Malta aircraft one is now operated for SAS by Transwede and can be seen at LCY daily on the Stockholm flight, another got fitted out for VIP work in the Middle East, and the two that passed through Euromanx's hands (and on one of which I once enjoyed a shambolic journey from LCY to the Isle of Man) continue to have bad luck as they were taken by an Italian independent which more recently has ceased operating so they are once more laid up, at Exeter, and thus presumably up for grabs.

But an RJ70 is such a small, niche market aircraft. Helsinki (speaking as one who has been there and finds it has a nice airport but is otherwise a rather simplistic little city) is not THAT strong a financial business market so you would need business in the Y cabin as well. And just because the RJ70 could do Malta to Dusseldorf, both with 10,000 foot runways, wouldn't necessarily mean it could lift out of LCY the same.

[virginblue]

I agree with your comment re the viability of a HEL route but as they are now giving OSL a try, it might work.

As for the Air Malta RJ70s, DUS was probably a bad example. The RJ70s were purchased by Air Malta to provide services from smaller regional airports inaccessible for larger aircraft, thus making Malta an anttractice holiday destination for the local folks. For example, in Germany airports such as BWE, KSF and HOQ were served, all with 1.500m runways. BWE-MLA, for example, is 1152mi, KSF-MLA 1.103mi. Not sure how much the difference in runway length will eat up from that perimeter, but it might be partially offset by the fact that, for example, KSF has a field elevation of 977ft. I would certainly be interested to find out what the max range of the RJ70"ER" with a sensible load out of LCY is, particularly as two appear to be up for grabs.


I just had a look into the RJ70 issue - 12 have been built, one has since crashed (1254, 1258, 1260 and 1267 are of the ER subtype)

1223 SE-DJX Transwede opf AirOne
1224 SE-DJY Transwede
1225 SE-DJZ Transwede opf AirOne
1228 VH-NJT National Jets
1229 G-BUFI MDLR Airlines (but apparently stored in the UK)
1230 VT-MDM MDLR Airlines
1252 available *ex Turkish
1254 EI-COQ Transwede opf SAS
1258 available *ex Euromanx
1260 available *ex Euromanx
1267 A6-RJK Royal Jet

Not sure about SEDJY. As the GOA TRN flights appear to have fallen through, it should be available for SAS.

[WHBM]

Just having a look at the new schedules for the summer, I hadn't quite appreciated the extent of the new based operators. Quite apart from the other airlines there are 8 British Airways and 7 Cityjet/Air France 146/RJ jets now assigned all day to LCY schedules. For an airport which hitherto had little in the way of based operators this seems a notable change. Presumably from next week, when the full new Cityjet schedules start, there will be pressures like we have not seen before.

Wondering how much will last though. With three major carriers on Zurich, where until recently there was only one, it's all a big change.

From 0700 to 0859 there are 64 movements scheduled, 32 per hour; apart from squeezing the exec jets at these times it seems very much on the limits both for runway and stand capacity. Does this put LCY in the top half dozen airports in the UK for peak hour movements ?

[virginblue]

By the way, I note that Helsinki is now in the poll section on LCY's website. So obviously a service could be operated from LCY's runway (assuming that the marketing folks have consulted withsome ops people).

Still in the poll section VIE, BCN and EXT. I would expect VIE und BCN to be BA Cityflyer's prime targets for new routes. Not sure if *A would react with a VIE service if this should happen.

As for BA Cityflyer, are all those 8 RJ100s busy from morning to evening or do they sit idle on the ground somewhere on the continent for longer periods of time? Even though their schedule is quite decent, I have difficulties seeing them operating 40 or so flights a day from LCY.

P.S.: Is there a complete schedule for LCY available on the net? This route-by-route menu at LCY#s website is a real pain.

[towser]

All Cityflyer aircraft work all day with no long stopovers elsewhere.

[Skipness One Echo]

Not that true. They tend to have rather long stopovers in Madrid and if I want to get from Zurich to London and back the timings with Swiss are way better. BA's last flight to ZRH is 1610 !
As for as aircraft are concerned the nightstoppers are :
EDI 2
GLA 2
LCY 2 ( 1 each EDI and ZRH early )
FRA 1
MAD 1
So 8 dedicated aircraft to London City but only really 2 based as it were. I believe the whole lot was crewed from Edinburgh but this is changing?
Anyone have an official date from when the callsign became "Cityflyer"?

[WHBM]

BA operations at LCY :

1 LCY 0700 0945 Zurich
1 Zurich 1025 1105 LCY 1340 1515 Glasgow
1 Glasgow 1550 1725 LCY 1800 1935 Glasgow

2 LCY 0705 0835 Edinburgh
2 Edinburgh 0720 0855 LCY 0930 1240 Milan MXP
2 Milan MXP 1420 1525 LCY 1610 1850 Zurich
2 Zurich 1930 2010 LCY

3 Frankfurt 0650 0725 LCY 0800 1030 Frankfurt
3 Frankfurt 1145 1225 LCY 1435 1710 Frankfurt
3 Frankfurt 1805 1845 LCY 1920 2155 Frankfurt

4 Edinburgh 0630 0810 LCY 0845 1010 Edinburgh
4 Edinburgh 1145 1315 LCY 1350 1520 Edinburgh
4 Edinburgh 1555 1730 LCY 1805 1940 Edinburgh

5 Glasgow 0700 0840 LCY 0915 1050 Glasgow
5 Glasgow 1225 1400 LCY 1435 1720 Zurich
5 Zurich 1800 1845 LCY 1920 2055 Glasgow

6 Madrid 0740 0920 LCY 0955 1335 Madrid
6 Madrid 1630 1810 LCY 1845 2225 Madrid

7 Glasgow 0830 1005 LCY 1040 1315 Zurich
7 Zurich 1540 1625 LCY 1700 1835 Edinburgh
7 Edinburgh 1910 2040 LCY

8 Edinburgh 0915 1050 LCY 1140 1315 Edinburgh
8 Edinburgh 1350 1525 LCY 1600 1730 Edinburgh
8 Edinburgh 1805 1940 LCY 2015 2140 Edinburgh

Sorry about the format best I can do quickly.

[WHBM]

And here's Air France / Cityjet if interested :

1 LCY 0700 0820 Edinburgh
1 Edinburgh 0855 1020 LCY 1050 1335 Zurich
1 Zurich 1420 1510 LCY 1540 1700 Dublin
1 Dublin 1800 1915 LCY 1945 2230 Geneva

2 Paris ORY 0700 0700 LCY 0730 0855 Dublin
2 Dublin 1535 1650 LCY 1720 1840 Dublin

3 Zurich 0640 0730 LCY 0800 1025 Paris ORY
3 Paris ORY 1100 1115 LCY 1145 1405 Paris ORY
3 Paris ORY 1450 1455 LCY 1525 1810 Zurich
3 Zurich 1905 1955 LCY 2025 2145 Dublin

4 Dublin 0645 0805 LCY 0835 0955 Dublin
4 Dublin 1220 1345 LCY 1415 1730 Nice
4 Nice 1815 1925 LCY 1955 2240 Zurich

5 Paris ORY 0825 0835 LCY 0905 1125 Paris ORY
5 Paris ORY 1255 1320 LCY 1350 1635 Geneva
5 Geneva 1715 1800 LCY 1830 2055 Paris ORY

6 Geneva 0755 0840 LCY 0910 1155 Geneva
6 Geneva 1315 1400 LCY 1430 1820 Madrid
6 Madrid 1910 2050 LCY

7 Dublin 0730 0900 LCY 0930 1320 Madrid
7 Madrid 1410 1545 LCY 1615 1830 Paris ORY
7 Paris ORY 1905 1925 LCY 1955 2220 Paris ORY

[virginblue]

Hmmm, not exactly brilliant aircraft utilisation, me thinks. What is the situation with aircraft #9 and #10 ? Ops reserve and maintenance?

[Tandemrotor]

What aircraft 9 and 10?

[virginblue]

jethro's fleet listings says that they have ten aircraft:

GBXAR BAe RJ100 E3289 Union Flag
GBXAS BAe RJ100 E3301 Union Flag
GBZAT BAe RJ100 E3320 Union Flag
GBZAU BAe RJ100 E3229 Union Flag
GBZAV BAe RJ100 E3331 Union Flag
GBZAW BAe RJ100 E3354 Union Flag
GBZAX BAe RJ100 E3356 Union Flag
GBZAY BAe RJ100 E3368 Union Flag
GBZAZ BAe RJ100 E3369 Union Flag
GCFAA BAe RJ100 E3373 Union Flag

[towser]

G-BXAR been returned.

[4468]

virginblue

Do you believe everything you read?

[Manston Airport]

Cityflyer have 10 BAe RJ 1000:

ARJ100G-BXAR
ARJ100 G-BXAS
ARJ100 G-BZAT
ARJ100 G-BZAU
ARJ100 G-BZAV
ARJ100 G-BZAW
ARJ100 G-BZAX
ARJ100 G-BZAY
ARJ100 G-BZAZ
ARJ100 G-CFAA



Wonder what Aircraft could do LCY-HEL,Could the ARJ100 do it or maybe a EMB 170 LR?

Regards
James

[Tandemrotor]

Cityflyer have 10 BAe RJ 1000:

(What is an RJ 1000??)

As you have already been told.

No they don't.

[virginblue]

Well, all I can say that three independent fleet listings - that tend to be rather reliable - report ten aircraft with BA Cityflyer. If this inaccurate, I wold be interested to hear what aircraft other than those that have been with Swiss for quite some time now have left the fleet and where they currently are.

This, by the way, is an ad placed by BA Cityflyer last Tuesday:

BA CityFlyer
OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE CONTROLLERS placed on: 03/04/2007
...
This is an exciting opportunity to join the operations team at BA CityFlyer working to deliver undisputable operational excellence. BA CityFlyer is a new subsidiary of BA Plc and will operate a fleet of 10 RJ100 aircraft out of London City Airport flying to domestic and European destinations....

[Skipness One Echo]

They used to have 16 RJ100s and 4 BAe146s, 13 J41s, 10+ Dash 8s, 30+ ERJ145s, several ATR42s / 72s and a single SF340. Put that lot together and you get = 10 RJ100s of which you will fly 8.

[towser]

At the moment its only 9 RJ100's . 1 is going back in around 6 months and 2 smaller ones in the pipeline to arrive about then so eventually fleet will be 10.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by virginblue

Hmmm, not exactly brilliant aircraft utilisation, me thinks.

Anyone operating at LCY will tell you that you cover all your overheads and hopefully make some money with an aircraft there on one morning rotation and one evening rotation. If the route is short you can maybe get two worthwhile evening round trips.

The rest of the day you will hope to cover your direct costs if you can. 11 am is normally dead time financially. So it's not like the LCCs down the road at Stansted at all. It can be most cost effective to stand the aircraft down during the day.

You will notice there are not that many factory-new aircraft in use, where the need to recover high time-based leasing costs are paramount. VLM are the past masters at managing the cost balance here.

[virginblue]

I see your point and agree with your rule of thumb, but don't think that BA will be fine just filling their not exactly inexpensive to operate RJ100s on two daily flights (morning in, evening out). The assumption would be that indeed those two flights are a gold-mine. On routes with competition and excess capacity (ZRH, GVA, MIL, FRA, EDI etc. etc.) I tend to believe that it is difficult for BA to make the rule of thumb work. I regularly check the fares on the FRA-LCY route, for example, and BA's fares are quite reasonable, indicating that BA is not able to syphon off just the cream.
I guess it pretty much depends on individual routes. VLM and EAE pulled the DUS/MGL route because they could only operate two daily flights (morning in, evening out) with decent loads. The same was true for most of the EW routes to Germany. VLM tried to trigger demand by selling cheaper tickets on their late morning and early afternoon flight without lasting success (despite operating LH code-shares, offering Miles&More and having a monopoly on that route). Then they cut back to thrice daily (like LPL now....) and struggled on for a while before eventually scrapping the route because they simply had not enough aircraft utilisation (so they told me). The problem was that they had no chance to make use of the aircraft when it did not make money to/from LCY because they had no network at the other end.