BOURNEMOUTH - 2
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hants
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Ok teleparty how do you reach the conclusion that the Paderborn route 'was more successful at Southampton'? Based on the monthly passenger figures published by the CAA, which is the only indicator I have to go on, the service was far more successful from Bournemouth.
Jan SOU 05 1405 BOH 06 1508 +7.3% BOH 07 1359 -3.3% (compared with 2005)
Feb SOU 05 1422 BOH 06 1581 +11.2% BOH 07 1655 +16.4% (compared with 2005)
Mar SOU 05 1930 BOH 06 2015 +4.4% BOH 07 1943 +0.7% (compared with 2005)
Apr SOU 05 2004 BOH 06 3194 +59.4% BOH 07 2695 +34.5% (compared with 2005)
May SOU 05 2445 BOH 06 2946 +20.5% BOH 07 2611 +6.8% (compared with 2005)
Jun SOU 05 2186 BOH 06 3178 +45.4% BOH 07 2800 +28.1% (compared with 2005)
July SOU 05 2794 BOH 06 3658 +30.9% BOH 07 3921 +40.3% (compared with 2005)
Aug SOU 05 3129 BOH 06 3572 +14.2% BOH 07 3502 +11.9% (compared with 2005)
Sep SOU 05 2130 BOH 06 3045 +43.0% BOH 07 3325 +56.1% (compared with 2005)
Oct SOU 05 2565 BOH 06 3550 +38.4% BOH 07 3227 +25.8% (compared with 2005)
Nov SOU 04 1988 BOH 06 1601 (compared with 2004) -19.5%
Dec SOU 04 2288 BOH 06 2674 (compared with 2004) +16.9%
In the two years the service operated from BOH every month apart from two (Nov 06 and Jan 07) saw a higher number of passengers from BOH than for the equivalent month in the one year it was operated from SOU.
The annual total for SOU (November 2004 - October 2005) was 26286
The annual total for BOH (January - December 2006) was 32522
The SOU total for the first 10 months of 2005 was 22010 (service ceased Oct 05)
The BOH total for the first 10 months of 2006 was 28247
The BOH total for the first 10 months of 2007 was 27038 (service ceased Oct 07)
Passenger numbers were holding up well in the 4 months before the service was chopped at the end of October 2007, with July 2007 having the highest total of any month.
LT
Jan SOU 05 1405 BOH 06 1508 +7.3% BOH 07 1359 -3.3% (compared with 2005)
Feb SOU 05 1422 BOH 06 1581 +11.2% BOH 07 1655 +16.4% (compared with 2005)
Mar SOU 05 1930 BOH 06 2015 +4.4% BOH 07 1943 +0.7% (compared with 2005)
Apr SOU 05 2004 BOH 06 3194 +59.4% BOH 07 2695 +34.5% (compared with 2005)
May SOU 05 2445 BOH 06 2946 +20.5% BOH 07 2611 +6.8% (compared with 2005)
Jun SOU 05 2186 BOH 06 3178 +45.4% BOH 07 2800 +28.1% (compared with 2005)
July SOU 05 2794 BOH 06 3658 +30.9% BOH 07 3921 +40.3% (compared with 2005)
Aug SOU 05 3129 BOH 06 3572 +14.2% BOH 07 3502 +11.9% (compared with 2005)
Sep SOU 05 2130 BOH 06 3045 +43.0% BOH 07 3325 +56.1% (compared with 2005)
Oct SOU 05 2565 BOH 06 3550 +38.4% BOH 07 3227 +25.8% (compared with 2005)
Nov SOU 04 1988 BOH 06 1601 (compared with 2004) -19.5%
Dec SOU 04 2288 BOH 06 2674 (compared with 2004) +16.9%
In the two years the service operated from BOH every month apart from two (Nov 06 and Jan 07) saw a higher number of passengers from BOH than for the equivalent month in the one year it was operated from SOU.
The annual total for SOU (November 2004 - October 2005) was 26286
The annual total for BOH (January - December 2006) was 32522
The SOU total for the first 10 months of 2005 was 22010 (service ceased Oct 05)
The BOH total for the first 10 months of 2006 was 28247
The BOH total for the first 10 months of 2007 was 27038 (service ceased Oct 07)
Passenger numbers were holding up well in the 4 months before the service was chopped at the end of October 2007, with July 2007 having the highest total of any month.
LT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germany
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I used to use the Hahn route on a regular basis , I cannot recall being on a low passenger number flight .
And I still cannot work out why they pulled that route. From the people I spoke to there was a large number of banking people working in Lux and Frankfurt but living in Dorset that made the trip on a regular basis.
And of course the inbound language students
And I still cannot work out why they pulled that route. From the people I spoke to there was a large number of banking people working in Lux and Frankfurt but living in Dorset that made the trip on a regular basis.
And of course the inbound language students
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southampton
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Were the frequencies the same? Pretty sure Southampton also has restrictions in relation to its short runway so doubt the plane could operate at full capacity. Either way Southampton now sustains 3 routes to Germany that operate every day and have quite impressive figures considering they are only one rotation.
Thread Starter
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Le Tirer - you should be working at BOH. help them!!!
Weekly frequencies were the same, the only change was to the days of operation i believe.
The aircraft was not payload restricted as the range didnt require max fuel loads from SOU-PAD. But on wet rainy days it had to divert to BOH/STN.
The daily services from SOU to Germany are poor in passenger volume compared to the one daily flight from BOH to HHN. Thats what i meant when i said BOH has more potential to carry more volume than SOU. I think the yield was the issue. a lot of passengers were language students in the summer and leisure travellers/VFR in the winter. I think in total SOU-3 germany routes carry around c7,000 per month. BOH-HHN single daily carried 8-9k (10k in August) per month.
The one daily B738 was basically like operating 3 Dash 8-Q400's a day.
INcidentally why is the SOU-Hannover route the most popular of the three? I'm surprised. I would have thought Frankfurt or Dusseldorf would be stronger. I do believe SOU/BOH-Berlin would be a strong market.
The aircraft was not payload restricted as the range didnt require max fuel loads from SOU-PAD. But on wet rainy days it had to divert to BOH/STN.
The daily services from SOU to Germany are poor in passenger volume compared to the one daily flight from BOH to HHN. Thats what i meant when i said BOH has more potential to carry more volume than SOU. I think the yield was the issue. a lot of passengers were language students in the summer and leisure travellers/VFR in the winter. I think in total SOU-3 germany routes carry around c7,000 per month. BOH-HHN single daily carried 8-9k (10k in August) per month.
The one daily B738 was basically like operating 3 Dash 8-Q400's a day.
INcidentally why is the SOU-Hannover route the most popular of the three? I'm surprised. I would have thought Frankfurt or Dusseldorf would be stronger. I do believe SOU/BOH-Berlin would be a strong market.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southampton
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Well as you correctly point out Shamrock its the yeild that is important. Lets face it, all the people on the hahn route would of been paying penuts where as the Southampton routes would be paying 50 quid minimum as flybe is not the low cost carrier it makes out! However still plenty of people willing to pay it and at one rotation a day on an eighty something seater I wouldn't be surprised if they go out nearly full most days.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Mines bigger than yours!
I dont support the endless "mine's bigger than yours" debates on this thread - but Flybe fares are an interesting item for comment.
I travel for business every week and use Flybe perhaps 4-5 times/month on average.
Flybe fares are def in the "rip off " category in most cases.
I pay an average 130 pounds each way on the SOU -AMS which is usually about 70% full, just today bought a one way Flybe SOU - GLA for next week for 110 pounds.
Flew LGW-AMS earlier this week on BA, 69 pounds all in, including two bags, free food and drink on board. Flybe charge 130 quid and then some for the food drink, bags etc.
Last time into BOH was a month ago one way DUB-BOH 64 euros (full aircraft)
Similar trip with Flybe DUB-SOU three months back was 140 pounds.
Ryanair needs to up its average fares which is one reason why its retrenching to major airports (eg. Barcelona base opened this week Gerona worried)
BOH will be fine. It has runway capacity which is a rare commodity in southern England and in need..
And it has a rich catchment albeit not enough inbound traffic. But thats not really an airport marketing problem, thats a visit britain issue.
FF
I travel for business every week and use Flybe perhaps 4-5 times/month on average.
Flybe fares are def in the "rip off " category in most cases.
I pay an average 130 pounds each way on the SOU -AMS which is usually about 70% full, just today bought a one way Flybe SOU - GLA for next week for 110 pounds.
Flew LGW-AMS earlier this week on BA, 69 pounds all in, including two bags, free food and drink on board. Flybe charge 130 quid and then some for the food drink, bags etc.
Last time into BOH was a month ago one way DUB-BOH 64 euros (full aircraft)
Similar trip with Flybe DUB-SOU three months back was 140 pounds.
Ryanair needs to up its average fares which is one reason why its retrenching to major airports (eg. Barcelona base opened this week Gerona worried)
BOH will be fine. It has runway capacity which is a rare commodity in southern England and in need..
And it has a rich catchment albeit not enough inbound traffic. But thats not really an airport marketing problem, thats a visit britain issue.
FF
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: southampton
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A very well ballanced post flitefone. I dont want the thread to be drawn into a debate of that nature as there is no competition anyway. It is interesting to here about your experiances with flybe, one thing I have found is that if you book way in advance the tickets can be as little as 30 quid which is not bad.
I hate ryanair with a passion and wish it only but bad luck. Its no better than tesco but at least they are good at what they do.
There were a lot of posters a while back who couldnt understand why bournemouth didnt have regional routes and I felt like some reality needed to be brought to this thread. Unfortunatelty Bournemouth is one of the dud airports scattered around this country and personally can only see it ending up like Coventry. Obviously hope not, never nice to see people lose their jobs and maybe if they focus on bucket and spade routes through charter companies it may not close.
I hate ryanair with a passion and wish it only but bad luck. Its no better than tesco but at least they are good at what they do.
There were a lot of posters a while back who couldnt understand why bournemouth didnt have regional routes and I felt like some reality needed to be brought to this thread. Unfortunatelty Bournemouth is one of the dud airports scattered around this country and personally can only see it ending up like Coventry. Obviously hope not, never nice to see people lose their jobs and maybe if they focus on bucket and spade routes through charter companies it may not close.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well it was meant as in their attitude and way of doing buiness not the demise of their company full stop. They go around screwing everyone, bullying and throwing their toys out of the pram but get away with it as they can afford to charge so little and therefore will always have a customer base.
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Unfortunatelty Bournemouth is one of the dud airports scattered around this country
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Point take IJM. I am from Southampton yes but that is not the main reason why I am all doom and gloom about Bournemouth. I think easy jet, ryanair or even bmi baby would of created a base by now if it made financial sense.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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No disrespect teleparty but you are showing your age. A debate must be well balanced and rational.
Ryanair already base at BOH (despite their 3 month pause). Palmair also (same 3 month pause). Thomson also. easyJet already fly from here. Flybe already fly from here. Soon Thomas Cook will also be flying. We have around 6 to 12 flights a year to the caribbean for very high yielding cruise holidays and this is far from having its potential realised.
The demand is what it is. It may be finite in the winter, but there is demand there and on a large scale in the summer months. Most of BOH's business is from Aircraft Re-spray, MRO, Flight refueling, Cobham - Next year 11 A330's are being renovated for the MOD. There are around 10 Falcon jets & D228's based. We have a based 747SP for private operations. Honeywell, European Citation centre, flying clubs and major cargo operations (10,000 tonnes a year) and other companies are based here. CEGA have a medical response fleet of Beechcraft King Air aircraft. Not to mention the large private jet traffic.
The scheduled passenger business probably only accounts for 5% (if that) of total airport revenue.
Over 1,500 employees, 80,000 aircraft movements, 10,000 tonnes of cargo and between 750,000 to 1m passengers a year (almost 1.1m at its peak in 07) this is significant and cannot be discounted especially when compared with other UK regional airports.
Ryanair already base at BOH (despite their 3 month pause). Palmair also (same 3 month pause). Thomson also. easyJet already fly from here. Flybe already fly from here. Soon Thomas Cook will also be flying. We have around 6 to 12 flights a year to the caribbean for very high yielding cruise holidays and this is far from having its potential realised.
The demand is what it is. It may be finite in the winter, but there is demand there and on a large scale in the summer months. Most of BOH's business is from Aircraft Re-spray, MRO, Flight refueling, Cobham - Next year 11 A330's are being renovated for the MOD. There are around 10 Falcon jets & D228's based. We have a based 747SP for private operations. Honeywell, European Citation centre, flying clubs and major cargo operations (10,000 tonnes a year) and other companies are based here. CEGA have a medical response fleet of Beechcraft King Air aircraft. Not to mention the large private jet traffic.
The scheduled passenger business probably only accounts for 5% (if that) of total airport revenue.
Over 1,500 employees, 80,000 aircraft movements, 10,000 tonnes of cargo and between 750,000 to 1m passengers a year (almost 1.1m at its peak in 07) this is significant and cannot be discounted especially when compared with other UK regional airports.
Last edited by Nakata77; 4th Sep 2010 at 04:46.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well to address your first paragraph maybe your showing you age as it is disillusioned beyond believe. How many of those flights you have listed are based? 1 Ryanair is the answer, which is likely to have only ever been based there to anoy flybe. They have moved into to numerous airports all round there country yet still are yet to comit to Bournemouth. They never will.
To address the rest of your post I agree its not impossible for Bournemouth to survive with this sort of business but it only exists as a result of the lack of real traffic. Look at Norwich and Southend as examples.
To address the rest of your post I agree its not impossible for Bournemouth to survive with this sort of business but it only exists as a result of the lack of real traffic. Look at Norwich and Southend as examples.
teleparty
You do go on don't you?
I would say that NWI has until quite recently enjoyed the level of traffic that its catchment would naturally support. It's largely the imposition of an Airport Development Fee there that has brought about the recent decline and upset Flybe. Regional airports will only really thrive when the market is booming and those days are certainly gone - at least for the next few years. You can't realistically bring SEN into the discussion with its current very short runway. Let's see what happens when their runway extension and new terminal with co-located train station are up and running next autumn and see what effect that has on traffic.
You talk only of the Ryanair aircraft being based there, but surely Palmair effectively have a BOH based 737 don't they? OK, they have decided to suspend ops this winter but that's only due to the current uncertainty in the whole marketplace as to what this winter will bring. They are probably wise to be cautious as I doubt they have the resources to sustain great losses so they've decided to live to fight another day.
As far as SOU is concerned take away Flybe and what do you have left? Certainly much less than BOH has in terms of other commercial activity as Nakata77 correctly pointed out. Flybe thrive there largely because your runway declared distances are too marginal for the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair and they are thus safe from route predation. Air Berlin pulled out and transferred to BOH for that very reason didn't they?
I should enjoy it while you can and hope that the CAA don't look too closely at the length of the RESA between your runway end and the M27 and spoil the party.
To sum up I don't think you're taking into account the realities of today's passenger market when you make your points, but perhaps with a few more years experience under your belt realism will dawn.
I have no interest in the relative success of BOH vs SOU and I hope both continue to provide stable employment for those working there while realising their true potential within the limits that their natural catchments impose as far as pax services are concerned.
You do go on don't you?
I would say that NWI has until quite recently enjoyed the level of traffic that its catchment would naturally support. It's largely the imposition of an Airport Development Fee there that has brought about the recent decline and upset Flybe. Regional airports will only really thrive when the market is booming and those days are certainly gone - at least for the next few years. You can't realistically bring SEN into the discussion with its current very short runway. Let's see what happens when their runway extension and new terminal with co-located train station are up and running next autumn and see what effect that has on traffic.
You talk only of the Ryanair aircraft being based there, but surely Palmair effectively have a BOH based 737 don't they? OK, they have decided to suspend ops this winter but that's only due to the current uncertainty in the whole marketplace as to what this winter will bring. They are probably wise to be cautious as I doubt they have the resources to sustain great losses so they've decided to live to fight another day.
As far as SOU is concerned take away Flybe and what do you have left? Certainly much less than BOH has in terms of other commercial activity as Nakata77 correctly pointed out. Flybe thrive there largely because your runway declared distances are too marginal for the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair and they are thus safe from route predation. Air Berlin pulled out and transferred to BOH for that very reason didn't they?
I should enjoy it while you can and hope that the CAA don't look too closely at the length of the RESA between your runway end and the M27 and spoil the party.
To sum up I don't think you're taking into account the realities of today's passenger market when you make your points, but perhaps with a few more years experience under your belt realism will dawn.
I have no interest in the relative success of BOH vs SOU and I hope both continue to provide stable employment for those working there while realising their true potential within the limits that their natural catchments impose as far as pax services are concerned.
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Teleparty
Nakata clearly stated which airlines are based and which others fly into and out of Bournemouth. He/She also stated a list of other airport users. Given that, just what is it you have against the airport?
What does 'it only exists as a result of the lack of real traffic' mean? Do you mean the other stuff is only there because there are not many commercial flights?
It is true that several airlines have tried routes and subsequently pulled out and, of course, it's disappointing that Ryanair and Palmair are stopping for the winter but the airport does have other business.
It's passenger projections were wrecked by the recession, ash, fuel prices etc but it will pick up business as the economy returns to health.
Nakata clearly stated which airlines are based and which others fly into and out of Bournemouth. He/She also stated a list of other airport users. Given that, just what is it you have against the airport?
What does 'it only exists as a result of the lack of real traffic' mean? Do you mean the other stuff is only there because there are not many commercial flights?
It is true that several airlines have tried routes and subsequently pulled out and, of course, it's disappointing that Ryanair and Palmair are stopping for the winter but the airport does have other business.
It's passenger projections were wrecked by the recession, ash, fuel prices etc but it will pick up business as the economy returns to health.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Expressflight - Norfolk is never going to need a thriving airport. Your more likely to see flights to the moon then southend becoming a contender. There are 4 airports in London which I think we can safely say have the market covered!
Palmair does count, and they exploit Bournemouth's market - the grey market.
Southampton is regional airport that can't facilitate more than a few 737's/a319's. Name another regional airline in the UK other than flybe that could bring something to Southampton? Rest my case.
possibleconsequences - Don't have anything against the airport, as I said there were many answers being asked and I decided to give my opinion on them.
That means that freight, charter, painting etc seems to thrive at the quiet airports as they are not resticted. They wouldnt work at airports like Birmingham, Bristol, Southampton but do at Southend, Bournemouth, Lasham etc.
I dont want to be all doom and gloom but Bournemoth airport needs to be put in prospective and classed with the likewise airports.
Palmair does count, and they exploit Bournemouth's market - the grey market.
Southampton is regional airport that can't facilitate more than a few 737's/a319's. Name another regional airline in the UK other than flybe that could bring something to Southampton? Rest my case.
possibleconsequences - Don't have anything against the airport, as I said there were many answers being asked and I decided to give my opinion on them.
That means that freight, charter, painting etc seems to thrive at the quiet airports as they are not resticted. They wouldnt work at airports like Birmingham, Bristol, Southampton but do at Southend, Bournemouth, Lasham etc.
I dont want to be all doom and gloom but Bournemoth airport needs to be put in prospective and classed with the likewise airports.
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BOH has a fan
I was at the hairdresser today and had the misfortune to read , if read is the right word, the Sun.
It appears Jeremy Clarkson flew from Bournemouth with Palmair for his summer holidays and loved the experience and the airport.
So well done BOH on that one
It appears Jeremy Clarkson flew from Bournemouth with Palmair for his summer holidays and loved the experience and the airport.
So well done BOH on that one