BOURNEMOUTH - 2
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why are we even discussing the popularity of a thread!? in the hope that somehow a popular thread means that all is not lost, the airport is viable and the routes can be profitable!?
back to topic!
BOH always performs well in august and september and october. (when all the hoteliers take their much derserved breaks)
the flybe manchester service was at 43% load factor. its slipping month on month - no surprise to us of course. its obviously not viable. stop flogging the dead horse and pull it. and before you say, dont write it off, give it more time, imagine what the load factors will be this winter! in november! december! january and worse, february!
We at FR are getting to the point where we now believe that bournemouth is only destined for a finite (spanish) holiday market and nothing more. the town is too transient to attract a large VFR market for any length of time, it has a 'temporary' very low yielding student population both foriegn in the summer and british in the winter. the old folks are finite - they are the ones with the dosh. but they dont like us and prefer the rip off merchants - palmair. suit yourselves!
back to topic!
BOH always performs well in august and september and october. (when all the hoteliers take their much derserved breaks)
the flybe manchester service was at 43% load factor. its slipping month on month - no surprise to us of course. its obviously not viable. stop flogging the dead horse and pull it. and before you say, dont write it off, give it more time, imagine what the load factors will be this winter! in november! december! january and worse, february!
We at FR are getting to the point where we now believe that bournemouth is only destined for a finite (spanish) holiday market and nothing more. the town is too transient to attract a large VFR market for any length of time, it has a 'temporary' very low yielding student population both foriegn in the summer and british in the winter. the old folks are finite - they are the ones with the dosh. but they dont like us and prefer the rip off merchants - palmair. suit yourselves!
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Ryanair1
i am one if your "oldies" in Bournemouth,and all i can say is, if Ryanair was the only choice from BOH,then i would stay at home,with your attitude its no wonder we dont "like you"
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What the airport needs is someone who can pull in the high margin 'oldies' who want the extra legroom, meals and service. It's not just 'oldies' (not my expression btw), but also high income earners of all ages.
This is the exact opposite of Ryanair of course but sometimes a low volume of flights at higher margins is better for an airline and the long-term interests of the paying public. Palmair have done a credible job in the past but I think their choice of aircraft was a mistake and they can't hope to make money out of an aircraft that size. If I was Palmair I would ditch their own aircraft and collaborate with the likes of Thomson, Thomas Cook, Jet 2 or Astraeus. Buying space on a fully written-down B757 flying a mix of medium-long haul leisure destinations and day-trip charters is a better strategy IMHO.
My gut feeling is that Bournemouths future is pretty much centered around what its always done. i.e. a mix of industrial and various aviation businesses, a mix of freight/post routes and a limited but useful core of scheduled and charter flights. Whether MAG can make it pay is anyone's guess but I'd buy the airport if I had the money! The difference being my expectations of profit would be lower than a truly commercial outfit like MAG, BAA etc.
Just my six-pence worth on a quiet Saturday afternoon.
airsmiles
This is the exact opposite of Ryanair of course but sometimes a low volume of flights at higher margins is better for an airline and the long-term interests of the paying public. Palmair have done a credible job in the past but I think their choice of aircraft was a mistake and they can't hope to make money out of an aircraft that size. If I was Palmair I would ditch their own aircraft and collaborate with the likes of Thomson, Thomas Cook, Jet 2 or Astraeus. Buying space on a fully written-down B757 flying a mix of medium-long haul leisure destinations and day-trip charters is a better strategy IMHO.
My gut feeling is that Bournemouths future is pretty much centered around what its always done. i.e. a mix of industrial and various aviation businesses, a mix of freight/post routes and a limited but useful core of scheduled and charter flights. Whether MAG can make it pay is anyone's guess but I'd buy the airport if I had the money! The difference being my expectations of profit would be lower than a truly commercial outfit like MAG, BAA etc.
Just my six-pence worth on a quiet Saturday afternoon.
airsmiles
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If I was Palmair I would ditch their own aircraft and collaborate with the likes of Thomson, Thomas Cook, Jet 2 or Astraeus
Last edited by Badgermanuk; 25th Sep 2010 at 18:21. Reason: spelling correction
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Planenut321 is correct. Astraeus are only the latest operator to work with Palmair who really are a virtual airline in most respects. (albeit a decent one).
I'm not sure how the Astreaus tie-up came about as they had to buy the B737-500 especially and they're not too big in the leisure business. May be they thought they could lease out the plane when Palmair didn't need it but I haven't seen much evidence of that.
I'd really like to see Bournemouth and Palmair survive in the long-term but the formula for both would have to change. Given the continuing Thomson presence at Bournemouth over the winter, they could be a good place to start but Thomas Cook might take up the reins if they decide to give Bournemouth a chance.
I'm not sure how the Astreaus tie-up came about as they had to buy the B737-500 especially and they're not too big in the leisure business. May be they thought they could lease out the plane when Palmair didn't need it but I haven't seen much evidence of that.
I'd really like to see Bournemouth and Palmair survive in the long-term but the formula for both would have to change. Given the continuing Thomson presence at Bournemouth over the winter, they could be a good place to start but Thomas Cook might take up the reins if they decide to give Bournemouth a chance.
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I don't think I said Palmair was owned by Astraeus - just that they owned the Plane used by Palmair.
The tie up came about when European Aviation went bust, Jet2 were used for the following winter season, and I think Viking might have been involved for a short period between the Jet 2 and Astraeus Contracts.
The tie up came about when European Aviation went bust, Jet2 were used for the following winter season, and I think Viking might have been involved for a short period between the Jet 2 and Astraeus Contracts.
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Yep, you're right Badgermanuk. I should have read your post more thoroughly!
The B735 was previously shown as 'for disposal' in Jethros website so may be Palmair are going to try a new approach when they restart.
The B735 was previously shown as 'for disposal' in Jethros website so may be Palmair are going to try a new approach when they restart.
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This thread has deteriorated in the last few weeks. lets try to get back to sensible comment
Some points worth making:
1/ Airport owners are essentially landlords, they make money by using their asset - the airport in whatever way generates income. The passenger activity is only part of the story.
BOH is a very large airport in terms of land and revenue sources, it has more based aircraft (250+) than almsot anywehere else south of the M4 (excluding LHR and LGW obviously), it also has an extremely diverse industrial and aviation operation. It is a valuable asset for MAG.
2/ As regards passenger activity. the BOH catchment is full if international businesses, business travellers and a high proportion of well heeled retired. The kind of people that fly J class to Barbados on vacation. Ryanair1 is right, the market for FR products - pile em high sell em cheap - using a relatively large aircraft is limited. There is a market for low end bucket and spade, but nothing like as strong as Bristol for example, which is at the interesection of two well connected motorways M4/5. The BOH schedules are just not frequent enough for the business users who instead use LHR,LCY/LGW and SOU. BRS generally is just too hard to get to from the BOH area. A regular feeder to a European hub (PAR/AMS/FRA) would work, because the business users are there.
3/ Palmair is more interesting, in my view Palmair could do much better by buying seats on Thomsonfly for longer routes and leaning on Flybe to cycle an E190 through BOH every day, adding once or twice a week destinations like Venice, Rome, Nice, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam and back to Spain and Portugal. There's a deal to be done there which should be good for Flybe and Palmair. Even a similar deal with EZY might work, but Flybe is the obvious one.
\
Its too late for 2011 planning but now's the time to be thinking about 2012.
FF
Some points worth making:
1/ Airport owners are essentially landlords, they make money by using their asset - the airport in whatever way generates income. The passenger activity is only part of the story.
BOH is a very large airport in terms of land and revenue sources, it has more based aircraft (250+) than almsot anywehere else south of the M4 (excluding LHR and LGW obviously), it also has an extremely diverse industrial and aviation operation. It is a valuable asset for MAG.
2/ As regards passenger activity. the BOH catchment is full if international businesses, business travellers and a high proportion of well heeled retired. The kind of people that fly J class to Barbados on vacation. Ryanair1 is right, the market for FR products - pile em high sell em cheap - using a relatively large aircraft is limited. There is a market for low end bucket and spade, but nothing like as strong as Bristol for example, which is at the interesection of two well connected motorways M4/5. The BOH schedules are just not frequent enough for the business users who instead use LHR,LCY/LGW and SOU. BRS generally is just too hard to get to from the BOH area. A regular feeder to a European hub (PAR/AMS/FRA) would work, because the business users are there.
3/ Palmair is more interesting, in my view Palmair could do much better by buying seats on Thomsonfly for longer routes and leaning on Flybe to cycle an E190 through BOH every day, adding once or twice a week destinations like Venice, Rome, Nice, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam and back to Spain and Portugal. There's a deal to be done there which should be good for Flybe and Palmair. Even a similar deal with EZY might work, but Flybe is the obvious one.
\
Its too late for 2011 planning but now's the time to be thinking about 2012.
FF
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Agree with Flitefone about this thread going well off track recently !
Looks like Balkan Holidays are giving Bournemouth another try for next summer with holidays to Bourgas on a Sunday 0830 0930 using a BKH Airbus A320 from 24 July
The MAG sign is only down as part of the improved road works taking place in that area at moment
A good month in August saw Thomson flights going out 97 % full with flights to new destinations of Monastir , Sharm , Bodrum and Antalya all doing very well as already discussed Ryanair also had good loads on all of there routes but the Manchester route is still not looking very healthy !
Looks like Balkan Holidays are giving Bournemouth another try for next summer with holidays to Bourgas on a Sunday 0830 0930 using a BKH Airbus A320 from 24 July
The MAG sign is only down as part of the improved road works taking place in that area at moment
A good month in August saw Thomson flights going out 97 % full with flights to new destinations of Monastir , Sharm , Bodrum and Antalya all doing very well as already discussed Ryanair also had good loads on all of there routes but the Manchester route is still not looking very healthy !
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Second coming
Second coming, I can't stop laughing at your comment, almost as good as Bournemouth Air saying that Bournemouth are up for sale because they taken the signs down. 
To clarify: Palmair is a subsidiary 'virtual' airline, operated by Astraeus, but owned by Bath Travel. They haven't got the money to buy Bournemouth after last year's poor performance. MAG would want more than the cost of the recent upgrades.
Flitefone speaks sense, Bournemouth Airport isn't all about bums on seats/parked cars, there's training/aircraft engineering/bizjets/industrial park landlord/MOD stuff etc etc etc. . .
Maybe Palmair can buy Bournemouth. They seem to be the only company that can make any moeny out of it.
To clarify: Palmair is a subsidiary 'virtual' airline, operated by Astraeus, but owned by Bath Travel. They haven't got the money to buy Bournemouth after last year's poor performance. MAG would want more than the cost of the recent upgrades.
Flitefone speaks sense, Bournemouth Airport isn't all about bums on seats/parked cars, there's training/aircraft engineering/bizjets/industrial park landlord/MOD stuff etc etc etc. . .
To clarify: Palmair is a subsidiary 'virtual' airline, operated by Astraeus, but owned by Bath Travel.
Palmair is owned by Bath Travel. Their current aircraft is operated on their behalf by Astraeus and Astraeus supply the flight crew. However all the cabin crew are employed directly by Palmair. So Palmair are not completely "virtual".