BOURNEMOUTH - 2
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaza, thanks. I'm glad that they don't reveal load factor info. FYI it was the ERJ-195 that i was booking though, not the Q400 on this particular sector.
Everyone on here is saying that flight timings from BOH Scotland are critical to demand. But what times are ideal? If an airline wants to offer a twice daily service then what is the ideal timing? If it means not leaving BOH till 08:00 to please the leisure traveller or older community then airlines wont get the best out of their aircraft for utilisation. How can Exeter, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff make it work? BOH has a bigger population than Exeter for sure and not too far off SOU so i really dont get why timing is so ultra critical at BOH. If the fare is right surely that is enough?
please comment...
Everyone on here is saying that flight timings from BOH Scotland are critical to demand. But what times are ideal? If an airline wants to offer a twice daily service then what is the ideal timing? If it means not leaving BOH till 08:00 to please the leisure traveller or older community then airlines wont get the best out of their aircraft for utilisation. How can Exeter, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff make it work? BOH has a bigger population than Exeter for sure and not too far off SOU so i really dont get why timing is so ultra critical at BOH. If the fare is right surely that is enough?
please comment...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hungerford, Berks.
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaza, thanks. I'm glad that they don't reveal load factor info. FYI it was the ERJ-195 that i was booking though, not the Q400 on this particular sector.
Everyone on here is saying that flight timings from BOH Scotland are critical to demand. But what times are ideal? If an airline wants to offer a twice daily service then what is the ideal timing? If it means not leaving BOH till 08:00 to please the leisure traveller or older community then airlines wont get the best out of their aircraft for utilisation. How can Exeter, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff make it work? BOH has a bigger population than Exeter for sure and not too far off SOU so i really dont get why timing is so ultra critical at BOH. If the fare is right surely that is enough?
please comment...
I see you are up early (4.48am) like myself! I am up and down regularly to Edinburgh from Bournemouth and the timing is irrelevant - what matters to me is the cost.
Everyone on here is saying that flight timings from BOH Scotland are critical to demand. But what times are ideal? If an airline wants to offer a twice daily service then what is the ideal timing? If it means not leaving BOH till 08:00 to please the leisure traveller or older community then airlines wont get the best out of their aircraft for utilisation. How can Exeter, Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff make it work? BOH has a bigger population than Exeter for sure and not too far off SOU so i really dont get why timing is so ultra critical at BOH. If the fare is right surely that is enough?
please comment...
I see you are up early (4.48am) like myself! I am up and down regularly to Edinburgh from Bournemouth and the timing is irrelevant - what matters to me is the cost.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Age: 40
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd like to make use of the BOH-Scotland route with Ryanair - for me the timings aren't suitable since the flight on Friday, Saturday and Sunday is first thing in the morning. It isn't that I don't want to get up early, it's just that I'd like a whole weekend in Scotland.
With Ryanair, I'd have to fly up on a Saturday am and back Sunday am, with FlyBe from SOU, I can go Fri night after work and home on Sunday night.
With Ryanair, I'd have to fly up on a Saturday am and back Sunday am, with FlyBe from SOU, I can go Fri night after work and home on Sunday night.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 44
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When the FR EDI/BOH was 2x daily operated by EDI machines the flights were busy from the BOH end (eg BOH-EDI AM was busy and EDI-BOH PM was busy) does this mean people from BOH want to go to EDI but people from EDI don't want to go to BOH? I travelled on the early EDI-BOH and late BOH-EDI quite a few times and sometimes there were only 14 people on board, 6 of these being crew and flight deck. The return flight in the evening was busier than this but I never saw it over 70 pax.
I can remember sitting one morning in EDI waiting for the BOH to be called and the early SOU was called before us and there was 60 pax got on the Q400 and only 18 got on the 738. Is it that BE have the right machines for the sector? Supply and demand etc? Or does everyone just want to go to SOU rather than BOH? Does the railway station on the doorstep really make the difference at SOU for onward connections?
I can remember sitting one morning in EDI waiting for the BOH to be called and the early SOU was called before us and there was 60 pax got on the Q400 and only 18 got on the 738. Is it that BE have the right machines for the sector? Supply and demand etc? Or does everyone just want to go to SOU rather than BOH? Does the railway station on the doorstep really make the difference at SOU for onward connections?
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: an expensive mansion
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair is appealing to the price sensitive traveller, those sick and tired of Flybe's poor on time performance and catering to some flexible business demand. There is simply not the demand to fill two B738's daily to either PIK or EDI whatever the time of day.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brighton uk
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new terminal is to start being fitted out next month , looking more impressive each day
Good front areal view of the new terminal if you go to
Bournemouth Airport Travel Trade - Home and click on news !
Does anyone know if there is going to be an upstairs level in the new area it certainly looks large enough to have second level
Good front areal view of the new terminal if you go to
Bournemouth Airport Travel Trade - Home and click on news !
Does anyone know if there is going to be an upstairs level in the new area it certainly looks large enough to have second level
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 46
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
86,685 pax in Sep 09
Year to date 942,167
Interestingly passengers during the month were down 16.3% but flights were down by 22.6% either indicating that load factor was improving or that aircraft size was increasing. Could be caused by the lack of Blue Island flights.
The Edinburgh route carried 7,256 passengers which seems acceptable but not particularly strong given its September. If this route drops in weak months like November and February then dont count on any increased frequency any time soon.
Interestingly passengers during the month were down 16.3% but flights were down by 22.6% either indicating that load factor was improving or that aircraft size was increasing. Could be caused by the lack of Blue Island flights.
The Edinburgh route carried 7,256 passengers which seems acceptable but not particularly strong given its September. If this route drops in weak months like November and February then dont count on any increased frequency any time soon.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brighton uk
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Top performing routes in September were the usual Spanish destinations
1 ) Palma 10, 333
2 ) Gerona 9261
3 ) Malaga 7419
4 ) Edinburgh 7256
5 ) Murcia / Alicante 5500
Also performing well were Cyprus , Rhodes , Monastir and Turkey all of which will see a larger aircraft next summer when the Thomsonair 737 800 is based here
Palmair continued to do well despite the competition and seem to be holding there own , there summer 2010 brochure should be released next week so may be a few new destinations but knowing Palmair they will probably play it safe and stick with what they know are good sellers
1 ) Palma 10, 333
2 ) Gerona 9261
3 ) Malaga 7419
4 ) Edinburgh 7256
5 ) Murcia / Alicante 5500
Also performing well were Cyprus , Rhodes , Monastir and Turkey all of which will see a larger aircraft next summer when the Thomsonair 737 800 is based here
Palmair continued to do well despite the competition and seem to be holding there own , there summer 2010 brochure should be released next week so may be a few new destinations but knowing Palmair they will probably play it safe and stick with what they know are good sellers
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the foot of the Lammermuirs
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaza, thanks. I'm glad that they don't reveal load factor info. FYI it was the ERJ-195 that i was booking though, not the Q400 on this particular sector.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: At the foot of the Lammermuirs
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When the FR EDI/BOH was 2x daily operated by EDI machines the flights were busy from the BOH end (eg BOH-EDI AM was busy and EDI-BOH PM was busy) does this mean people from BOH want to go to EDI but people from EDI don't want to go to BOH? I travelled on the early EDI-BOH and late BOH-EDI quite a few times and sometimes there were only 14 people on board, 6 of these being crew and flight deck. The return flight in the evening was busier than this but I never saw it over 70 pax.
I can remember sitting one morning in EDI waiting for the BOH to be called and the early SOU was called before us and there was 60 pax got on the Q400 and only 18 got on the 738. Is it that BE have the right machines for the sector? Supply and demand etc? Or does everyone just want to go to SOU rather than BOH? Does the railway station on the doorstep really make the difference at SOU for onward connections?
I can remember sitting one morning in EDI waiting for the BOH to be called and the early SOU was called before us and there was 60 pax got on the Q400 and only 18 got on the 738. Is it that BE have the right machines for the sector? Supply and demand etc? Or does everyone just want to go to SOU rather than BOH? Does the railway station on the doorstep really make the difference at SOU for onward connections?
I think FRs biggest issue is the 738. It is just too big for internal routes. BE have an advantage in that they can run 4, 4 or 6 x daily and offer a good spread of flights. Yes, they are much more expensive but in general business travellers need the flexibility.
SOU is also much better situated for business traffic having a catchement area of Southampton, Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Winchester, Basingstoke and as far north as Newbury. There is simply not the same business catchment for BOH.
And yes, the railway does make a big difference. 40 minutes to central Bouremouth, 10 minutes to Winchester, 25 to Basingstoke.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what are we saying here? That BOH is destined to not have a service to Scotland because the only airline that will do it has B738's?
I think BOH needs easyJet to do daily GLA with a 156 seat A319. Ryanair MUST be able to make a daily EDI work with right timings. Problem is with these two carriers, BOH will never have more than a daily to each destination because of the arguments made on this thread. Ideally Flybe from BOH would be great at double daily DH8-400's; we all know they wont do that though with their main hub at SOU.
So whats the likelihood of a new start up doing something from BOH that will provide the right capacity, the right frequency, the right fares, the right timings?????
I think BOH needs easyJet to do daily GLA with a 156 seat A319. Ryanair MUST be able to make a daily EDI work with right timings. Problem is with these two carriers, BOH will never have more than a daily to each destination because of the arguments made on this thread. Ideally Flybe from BOH would be great at double daily DH8-400's; we all know they wont do that though with their main hub at SOU.
So whats the likelihood of a new start up doing something from BOH that will provide the right capacity, the right frequency, the right fares, the right timings?????
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Domestic Flights
Both EZY and RYR have bigger fish to fry than worry about domestic flights from UK regions, both carriers operate aircraft that are too large to schedule effectively for the market. We've seen endless debates on this, BOH is lucky to have what it does today.
Clearly the strategy for both carriers is leisure destinations from BOH, and I think the airport supports that view. I'm certain we'll see more growth in that direction especially from RYR.
It is also extremely unlikely that Flybe will dilute their neaby hub at SOU, by operating from BOH too, unless they run into runway slot restrictions at SOU (not impossible in peak hours)
What is much more likely in my view is that the increasing dominance of FlyBe in the UK domestic market will be more robustly challenged, mainly because their fares, punctuality, and flight cancellation record is pretty woeful, especially when set against RYR/EZY. Although Flybe does compare with Eastern.
So what will that mean...?
1/Eastern just might bite the bullet and fight back against FlyBe more aggressively, I would not rule them out of a double daily BOH-MAN-NCL-ABZ-NCL-MAN-BOH bus service type operation , especially once the new terminal opens next year. Eastern management likes the oil business, which is behind their ABZ expansion and might just convince them that BOH has something to offer (BP in Dorset).
2/Southwest may also step in on a double daily BOH-MAN, just to grow their business. It makes sense that they would see this as a positive step.
3/Finally, whatever arises from the ashes (or bloodbath if you prefer) of BMI and BMI regional next year could also be a surprise player. Unless rumours of a FlyBe takeover of regional are to be believed. If the latter happens though I see #1 and #2 as even more likely.
4/I don't see any start-ups entering the market out of BOH or any where else in the UK any time soon.
FF
Clearly the strategy for both carriers is leisure destinations from BOH, and I think the airport supports that view. I'm certain we'll see more growth in that direction especially from RYR.
It is also extremely unlikely that Flybe will dilute their neaby hub at SOU, by operating from BOH too, unless they run into runway slot restrictions at SOU (not impossible in peak hours)
What is much more likely in my view is that the increasing dominance of FlyBe in the UK domestic market will be more robustly challenged, mainly because their fares, punctuality, and flight cancellation record is pretty woeful, especially when set against RYR/EZY. Although Flybe does compare with Eastern.
So what will that mean...?
1/Eastern just might bite the bullet and fight back against FlyBe more aggressively, I would not rule them out of a double daily BOH-MAN-NCL-ABZ-NCL-MAN-BOH bus service type operation , especially once the new terminal opens next year. Eastern management likes the oil business, which is behind their ABZ expansion and might just convince them that BOH has something to offer (BP in Dorset).
2/Southwest may also step in on a double daily BOH-MAN, just to grow their business. It makes sense that they would see this as a positive step.
3/Finally, whatever arises from the ashes (or bloodbath if you prefer) of BMI and BMI regional next year could also be a surprise player. Unless rumours of a FlyBe takeover of regional are to be believed. If the latter happens though I see #1 and #2 as even more likely.
4/I don't see any start-ups entering the market out of BOH or any where else in the UK any time soon.
FF
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The glasshouse, a stone's throw from you
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure that if anyone was to fly from BOH to MAN (or EMA/HUY) would get some advantageous landing/passenger fees at both ends.
It must really hurt the senior management to have to fly to SOU from MAN to get to BOH!
It must really hurt the senior management to have to fly to SOU from MAN to get to BOH!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 46
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flitefone
Excellent post, and very robust arguments behind each scenario.
My concern is BOH's track record where turboprop/regional operators have tried and failed because the fares/frequencies were inferior to that at Southampton; and also possibly because of the wrong aircraft type - in Euro Direct's case it was either 18 seater J31's or 64 seater ATP's! The only reason the low cost carriers work at BOH is because they can attract a larger catchment and distract people from SOU with a superior service in terms of fares, brand [pull factor], reliability, aircraft type [larger], marketing/promotional power
I anticipate that if Eastern or Southwest were to start we would see a trickle of passengers but the market would be cannibalized slightly at SOU; only in a years time for those airlines to either pull out or see more sense in flying from SOU [like Blue Islands has done]. We all know that low cost carriers can stimulate or grow the pie rather than cannibalize it, thus making BOH sustainable for LCC's instead of the regional carriers.
I am ready and willing to be proved wrong though and would very much like to see Eastern or Southwest succeed on routes from BOH. I do believe that there is a market from BOH to MAN, NCL, BHD/BFS, CDG, AMS, FRA, ZCH etc etc but what is the right aircraft and the right approach? This is yet to be proven.
My concern is BOH's track record where turboprop/regional operators have tried and failed because the fares/frequencies were inferior to that at Southampton; and also possibly because of the wrong aircraft type - in Euro Direct's case it was either 18 seater J31's or 64 seater ATP's! The only reason the low cost carriers work at BOH is because they can attract a larger catchment and distract people from SOU with a superior service in terms of fares, brand [pull factor], reliability, aircraft type [larger], marketing/promotional power
I anticipate that if Eastern or Southwest were to start we would see a trickle of passengers but the market would be cannibalized slightly at SOU; only in a years time for those airlines to either pull out or see more sense in flying from SOU [like Blue Islands has done]. We all know that low cost carriers can stimulate or grow the pie rather than cannibalize it, thus making BOH sustainable for LCC's instead of the regional carriers.
I am ready and willing to be proved wrong though and would very much like to see Eastern or Southwest succeed on routes from BOH. I do believe that there is a market from BOH to MAN, NCL, BHD/BFS, CDG, AMS, FRA, ZCH etc etc but what is the right aircraft and the right approach? This is yet to be proven.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is much more likely in my view is that the increasing dominance of FlyBe in the UK domestic market will be more robustly challenged, mainly because their fares, punctuality, and flight cancellation record is pretty woeful, especially when set against RYR/EZY.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Jobsagoodun, I was almost going to post back exactly what you have said. Sadly people do look at biggest bases and the odd cancellation and then make a poor judgement - this usually results in a completely unfactual statement.
I would have to say that realistically it is highly unlikely that any regional airline will start new operations from Bournemouth. I would expect Jet2 to, at some stage, look at routes but these are probably going to be Spain and other routes which could be part scheduled, part charter.
Air Southwest would not look at Bournemouth nor would Eastern. BOH would have to do a lot of work to encourage regular and frequent flights domestically other than maybe a weekly holiday service bringing for example Scots down to Bournemouth for stag and hen weekends.
I would have to say that realistically it is highly unlikely that any regional airline will start new operations from Bournemouth. I would expect Jet2 to, at some stage, look at routes but these are probably going to be Spain and other routes which could be part scheduled, part charter.
Air Southwest would not look at Bournemouth nor would Eastern. BOH would have to do a lot of work to encourage regular and frequent flights domestically other than maybe a weekly holiday service bringing for example Scots down to Bournemouth for stag and hen weekends.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Waters edge
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe
My remarks on Flybe are based solely on experience, not stats. Flybe have let me and my colleagues down rather more than they should have done re on time performance and cancelled flights. Always been the Dash 8 flights that have been problematic. Never had a problem with the Embraers, nor lost bags on Flybe either.
Once again and as I said, I think growth at BOH will be leisure destinations not domestic.
2010 will be an interesting year.
FF
Once again and as I said, I think growth at BOH will be leisure destinations not domestic.
2010 will be an interesting year.
FF
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: bournemouth
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boh Terminal
Sparkynufc, Thanks for Pics of Terminal, Looking Pretty Good, I have been working overseas for a Long time Now and Don,t get back much to keep up with the Progress,
Hope it Attracts more Routes and LCC's to the Airport that i Have worked at for 30 years,
Keep Posting mate, Cheers
Hope it Attracts more Routes and LCC's to the Airport that i Have worked at for 30 years,
Keep Posting mate, Cheers