MANSTON - 2
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The major factor operating cargo flights into major airports like Lhr/Lgw is the high Landing/handling fees, so therefore much better buisness sense to utilise smaller regional airports such as East Midlands.
Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.
Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.
Another thing is Daily papers just talk trash they make half of the stories up 
There was a BA A319 in MSE today due to bad weather at LHR the crew were very happy with the service given to them. Thank you Jes thats brilliant news made my day 
hope the 2 airlines do turn up? As Esperia have gone quietJames
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Manston Airport
James
The runway length is 2752 metres, and it's not a bad thing that Esperia have gone quiet, in my opinion, as i have said before, the last thing kia needs right now is another start-up airline.
It's going just fine at the moment with a slow and steady increase in freight services and a few more destinations next year from seguro.
Yes it would be nice for a major loco to sign, but that will come i'm sure of it and if there's one thing i've learn't in the aviation world is the time it takes for these things to happen.
Infratil are investing into some major infrastrucure at the moment, which can only be a good thing.
catflaps and deedave thrive on pouring scorn on anything and everyone involved with the airport, but take what they say with a pinch of salt, they don't work in aviation and would rather see a housing estate out there.
James
The runway length is 2752 metres, and it's not a bad thing that Esperia have gone quiet, in my opinion, as i have said before, the last thing kia needs right now is another start-up airline.
It's going just fine at the moment with a slow and steady increase in freight services and a few more destinations next year from seguro.
Yes it would be nice for a major loco to sign, but that will come i'm sure of it and if there's one thing i've learn't in the aviation world is the time it takes for these things to happen.
Infratil are investing into some major infrastrucure at the moment, which can only be a good thing.
catflaps and deedave thrive on pouring scorn on anything and everyone involved with the airport, but take what they say with a pinch of salt, they don't work in aviation and would rather see a housing estate out there.
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blazing_air
Which is 9,029FT longer then Bristol ,Birmingham International Airport, Leeds Bradford International Airport and Newcastle
I want Esperia to work cant wait to see MD-83 at MSE just its gone quiet at moment thats all
James
Which is 9,029FT longer then Bristol ,Birmingham International Airport, Leeds Bradford International Airport and Newcastle
I want Esperia to work cant wait to see MD-83 at MSE just its gone quiet at moment thats all James
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Evileyes-
Thank you for your intervention.
While I do not have a problem with personal jibes, they are interfering with intelligent debate.
Also, starting each post with "calm down" or "chill" is becoming a bit of tired gag.
Thank you for your intervention.
While I do not have a problem with personal jibes, they are interfering with intelligent debate.
Also, starting each post with "calm down" or "chill" is becoming a bit of tired gag.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Air Travel
When you start to thing about the long term future of Airports, Rail travel will have a major inpact on short haul with the high speed lines being built over Europe. A lot of this traffic will move to rail over the next 5 to 20 years I am sure as air travel will be more expensive and higher taxed.
As for Manston it's not all about catchment area, Passengers travel 100's of miles to get to Heathrow, Gatwick to get the flight to the place they want .
I find Heathrow is a nightmare to get to, to get in, to get out.
Stanstead and Luton made it work by offering the right product.
Stanstead had a rail link built.
Manston needs to offer the right product and service at the right price, for passenger or freight. Being a small airport overheads are a lot less and a better service can be offered.
I live close to the flight path for runway 10 and noticed a lot more large jets landing in the last few weeks.
I think the new owners are in it to make money, and they are investing in the airports infrastucture.
We will have to wait and see, past performance is not a guide to the future as any investor knows.
As for Manston it's not all about catchment area, Passengers travel 100's of miles to get to Heathrow, Gatwick to get the flight to the place they want .
I find Heathrow is a nightmare to get to, to get in, to get out.
Stanstead and Luton made it work by offering the right product.
Stanstead had a rail link built.
Manston needs to offer the right product and service at the right price, for passenger or freight. Being a small airport overheads are a lot less and a better service can be offered.
I live close to the flight path for runway 10 and noticed a lot more large jets landing in the last few weeks.
I think the new owners are in it to make money, and they are investing in the airports infrastucture.
We will have to wait and see, past performance is not a guide to the future as any investor knows.
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At the end of the day, with the right routes and the right marketing. There is no reason why manston can't operate successfully with pax. I have talked about the lack of catchment on this thread before, but I think Herne Bay has a point.
I don't believe Manston will ever compete with the larger London airports, but with the right management it will probably have a future.
Maybe the management should look at trying to woe the A380 cargo operators that won't be able to use EGSS in the future!
I don't believe Manston will ever compete with the larger London airports, but with the right management it will probably have a future.
Maybe the management should look at trying to woe the A380 cargo operators that won't be able to use EGSS in the future!
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New Topic
OK-
No-one knows the future, nothing is impossible and MSE might survive.
But it probably won't.
With that in mind I would like to introduce a NEW TOPIC!!!
"MANSTON'S IMPACT ON GENERAL AVIATION"
Environmental issues are high profile at the moment. Aviation is right at the centre of the debate, and is being closely scrutinised.
For those of us who rely on a credible air travel sector for our livelihoods, it is essential that aviation runs a tight ship (if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor)
Politicians, journalists, and schoolchildren are all talking about "saving the planet". Schoolchildren in particular have more environmental awareness in their short lives, than I have ever had in my 50 plus years - and children are the potential aviation customers of the future.
It is essential that aviation acts responsibly, and does not develop a negative public image.
So where does an airport like Manston fit in?
Not very well I'm afraid.
Airlines and aiports will need to demontrate that they are self-supporting and necessary, and that there is a realistic demand for their services.
An airport such as STN obviously has that credibility - it is bursting at the seams and needs to expand.
Manston, on the other hand is wasting a huge amount of private and public money trying, and failing, to create a demand where none exists. There is only a skeleton demand for freight, and the pax demographic is too fragmented to be viable. The environmental PR error is compounded by the suggestion that people and freight should travel hundreds of miles by road to reach MSE. In doing these things, Manston could threaten the reputation of the whole industry. This is not the carefree 1980's - and I do not believe aviation's reputation can afford a "wayward child" like MSE in 2006.
Imagine a company and a local coucil persuading people to use their cars for extra journeys they were not interested in making - and financing it as well! The media outcry would be colossal, yet this is essentially what goes on at MSE.
Politicians are extremely media concious, and it only takes a handful of journalists to put the microscope on such goings-on to cause the usual Westminster over-reaction - Draconian laws and restrictions threatening huge numbers of aviation careers.
Unfortunately, the competitive market economy works against the industry in this situation, because the most intelligent approach would be for companies to co-operate in working out which airports are go, and which are no-go.
Once LYX gets going (a more credible pax airport), the mixture of over-capacity in this region and bad PR could be a nightmare, and could have far reaching consequences.
There IS scope for expansion in aviation, but reckless over-expansion could be a disaster. These are uncertain times, and the industry needs to be careful.
Manston is already a joke among business travellers.
If people are not careful, it could turn out to be aviation's Nemesis.
No-one knows the future, nothing is impossible and MSE might survive.
But it probably won't.
With that in mind I would like to introduce a NEW TOPIC!!!
"MANSTON'S IMPACT ON GENERAL AVIATION"
Environmental issues are high profile at the moment. Aviation is right at the centre of the debate, and is being closely scrutinised.
For those of us who rely on a credible air travel sector for our livelihoods, it is essential that aviation runs a tight ship (if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor)
Politicians, journalists, and schoolchildren are all talking about "saving the planet". Schoolchildren in particular have more environmental awareness in their short lives, than I have ever had in my 50 plus years - and children are the potential aviation customers of the future.
It is essential that aviation acts responsibly, and does not develop a negative public image.
So where does an airport like Manston fit in?
Not very well I'm afraid.
Airlines and aiports will need to demontrate that they are self-supporting and necessary, and that there is a realistic demand for their services.
An airport such as STN obviously has that credibility - it is bursting at the seams and needs to expand.
Manston, on the other hand is wasting a huge amount of private and public money trying, and failing, to create a demand where none exists. There is only a skeleton demand for freight, and the pax demographic is too fragmented to be viable. The environmental PR error is compounded by the suggestion that people and freight should travel hundreds of miles by road to reach MSE. In doing these things, Manston could threaten the reputation of the whole industry. This is not the carefree 1980's - and I do not believe aviation's reputation can afford a "wayward child" like MSE in 2006.
Imagine a company and a local coucil persuading people to use their cars for extra journeys they were not interested in making - and financing it as well! The media outcry would be colossal, yet this is essentially what goes on at MSE.
Politicians are extremely media concious, and it only takes a handful of journalists to put the microscope on such goings-on to cause the usual Westminster over-reaction - Draconian laws and restrictions threatening huge numbers of aviation careers.
Unfortunately, the competitive market economy works against the industry in this situation, because the most intelligent approach would be for companies to co-operate in working out which airports are go, and which are no-go.
Once LYX gets going (a more credible pax airport), the mixture of over-capacity in this region and bad PR could be a nightmare, and could have far reaching consequences.
There IS scope for expansion in aviation, but reckless over-expansion could be a disaster. These are uncertain times, and the industry needs to be careful.
Manston is already a joke among business travellers.
If people are not careful, it could turn out to be aviation's Nemesis.
Last edited by deedave; 2nd Oct 2006 at 22:03. Reason: typos
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nemesis
[nem-uh-sis]
1. something that a person cannot conquer, achieve, etc.: The performance test proved to be my nemesis.
2. an opponent or rival whom a person cannot best or overcome.
3. (initial capital letter) Classical Mythology. the goddess of divine retribution.
4. an agent or act of retribution or punishment.
—Synonyms 1. Waterloo. 4. downfall, undoing, ruin, Waterloo.
I'm sure that deedave isn't referring to 1, 2 or 3 (despite the capital letter), but 4 and its synonyms.
So the truth is out....Manston is going to bring down aviation in Britain.
Just wait for the announcements............
[nem-uh-sis]
1. something that a person cannot conquer, achieve, etc.: The performance test proved to be my nemesis.
2. an opponent or rival whom a person cannot best or overcome.
3. (initial capital letter) Classical Mythology. the goddess of divine retribution.
4. an agent or act of retribution or punishment.
—Synonyms 1. Waterloo. 4. downfall, undoing, ruin, Waterloo.
I'm sure that deedave isn't referring to 1, 2 or 3 (despite the capital letter), but 4 and its synonyms.
So the truth is out....Manston is going to bring down aviation in Britain.
Just wait for the announcements............
Last edited by Jes; 2nd Oct 2006 at 21:56. Reason: tidying up
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Lydd's Runway: 1505m / 4936ft Manston's Runway: 2751m / 9025ft
On May 16th 2003 the Queen of Denmark visited Lydd to inspect troops. She had to fly into Manston (in a Challenger) because Lydd is not an approved airport for RDAF use.
I'm sure the locals will enthusiastically support the extension of Lydd's runway, as we seem to have all the oppositionists living in Thanet.
On May 16th 2003 the Queen of Denmark visited Lydd to inspect troops. She had to fly into Manston (in a Challenger) because Lydd is not an approved airport for RDAF use.
I'm sure the locals will enthusiastically support the extension of Lydd's runway, as we seem to have all the oppositionists living in Thanet.
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Deedave,
You proclaim your love of intelligent debate, and then produce a post so far removed from facts and reality as to be preposterous. So, in the interests of the informed argument which you crave, a few points...
Let us not forget that Stansted was, for many years, a vastly underused airport. It was well planned in that it offered capacity for a predicted growth in air traffic. Manston is currently also vastly underused, but where as you see the "bursting at the seams" of the London airports as an argument against Manston, I see it as an argument for it. The increased use of Manston will become a necessity in years to come.
To my knowledge, only the Eujet failure and the flights to Norfolk Virginia were / are funded by KCC. These are specific airline / operator ventures from the airport, and not subsidies for the airport itself. Your claim is not justified.
Much of the freight that MSE attracts would otherwise be flown to Ostend, and then driven to the UK. This represents an environmental advantage. Furthermore, for many of the citizens of Kent, driving to Manston is a shorter journey than driving to a London airport.
As I have demonstrated above, this is untrue
What over-capacity? There is currently only ONE daily flight serving Kent, which has a population of 1,600,000 people, the Lyddair service to Le Touquet. Compared to almost every other region in the country, there is a phenomenal lack of provision for passenger flights leaving Kent. In time, I am sure that MSE will attract the standard Ryanair flights to Dublin / Derry etc. and grow from there, and its capacity will become important. We may see more and more freight flights flying into Manston in order free up slots for passenger traffic elsewhere.
Jes has already pointed out your interesting use of the word "Nemesis." I believe that rising fuel costs and taxation, increased awareness of the impact on the environment on cheap flights, and, above all, congestion will prove to be aviation's nemeses. Manston can ease the latter of these factors, and could prove to be an important link in the aviation growth we will see in the next ten years.
Rupert
You proclaim your love of intelligent debate, and then produce a post so far removed from facts and reality as to be preposterous. So, in the interests of the informed argument which you crave, a few points...
So where does an airport like Manston fit in?
Not very well I'm afraid.
Airlines and aiports will need to demontrate that they are self-supporting and necessary, and that there is a realistic demand for their services.
An airport such as STN obviously has that credibility - it is bursting at the seams and needs to expand.
Not very well I'm afraid.
Airlines and aiports will need to demontrate that they are self-supporting and necessary, and that there is a realistic demand for their services.
An airport such as STN obviously has that credibility - it is bursting at the seams and needs to expand.
Jes has already pointed out your interesting use of the word "Nemesis." I believe that rising fuel costs and taxation, increased awareness of the impact on the environment on cheap flights, and, above all, congestion will prove to be aviation's nemeses. Manston can ease the latter of these factors, and could prove to be an important link in the aviation growth we will see in the next ten years.
Rupert
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Who said this?
"What are the short term financial prospects for KIA?
Because of KIA's administration, it has no current freight or passenger business. It will take some time for these markets to be developed. Infratil has a long term view on KIA and is prepared to absorb operating losses for 3 to 4 years."
Infratil, in August 2005.
Let's just leave them to get on with it. Rumours and news are fine, but I'm really tired of the same old stuff being constantly trotted out.
Because of KIA's administration, it has no current freight or passenger business. It will take some time for these markets to be developed. Infratil has a long term view on KIA and is prepared to absorb operating losses for 3 to 4 years."
Infratil, in August 2005.
Let's just leave them to get on with it. Rumours and news are fine, but I'm really tired of the same old stuff being constantly trotted out.
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OK-
Once LYX gets going (a more credible pax airport), the mixture of over-capacity in this region and bad PR could be a nightmare, and could have far reaching consequences.
There IS scope for expansion in aviation, but reckless over-expansion could be a disaster. These are uncertain times, and the industry needs to be careful.
Manston is already a joke among business travellers.
If people are not careful, it could turn out to be aviation's Nemesis.
Once LYX gets going (a more credible pax airport), the mixture of over-capacity in this region and bad PR could be a nightmare, and could have far reaching consequences.
There IS scope for expansion in aviation, but reckless over-expansion could be a disaster. These are uncertain times, and the industry needs to be careful.
Manston is already a joke among business travellers.
If people are not careful, it could turn out to be aviation's Nemesis.
You talking about Lydd airport lol
how can that be a pax airport and what with birds from the brilliant marsh's? Good to have DAS Air Cargo back at Manston James
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Manston Airport
It can be a pax airport very easily. It has daily passenger flights and although only a small operation seems to do well. And this isn't a MSE-bashing comment but it does have more passenger flights than MSE
It can be a pax airport very easily. It has daily passenger flights and although only a small operation seems to do well. And this isn't a MSE-bashing comment but it does have more passenger flights than MSE
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I find this forum has posts from people who clearly don't want an Airport at Manston, And suporters of an Airport. and some make post about whats going on at Manston.
But is this the right forum for a close Manston down forum, is this not a rumour network ?.
If you think that the place should be closed so be it, but perhaps your case which is your right to make, Would be better vented elsewere.
As I causes bad feeling as has been shown in the replys.
I joined to know whats going on.
But is this the right forum for a close Manston down forum, is this not a rumour network ?.
If you think that the place should be closed so be it, but perhaps your case which is your right to make, Would be better vented elsewere.
As I causes bad feeling as has been shown in the replys.
I joined to know whats going on.
Last edited by Herne Bay; 5th Oct 2006 at 09:38. Reason: noticed poor grammer ?
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"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions."
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Well said, HB. I am an avid reader of this forum, and make contributions to some threads. The Manston ones seem to be unique in that there is always a group of posters whose aim is to undermine the financial basis of the airport; they are constantly telling us how it is going to fail. No other airport gets this treatment, and I don't see why we should put up with it.
I suggest that any posting exhibiting these characteristics be ignored - completely. MAG is a spent force in Thanet, so let's not give it any credence here.
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Well said, HB. I am an avid reader of this forum, and make contributions to some threads. The Manston ones seem to be unique in that there is always a group of posters whose aim is to undermine the financial basis of the airport; they are constantly telling us how it is going to fail. No other airport gets this treatment, and I don't see why we should put up with it.
I suggest that any posting exhibiting these characteristics be ignored - completely. MAG is a spent force in Thanet, so let's not give it any credence here.
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The Manston ones seem to be unique in that there is always a group of posters whose aim is to undermine the financial basis of the airport; they are constantly telling us how it is going to fail. No other airport gets this treatment, and I don't see why we should put up with it.
I suggest that any posting exhibiting these characteristics be ignored - completely.
I suggest that any posting exhibiting these characteristics be ignored - completely.