MANSTON - 2
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Join Date: Dec 2000
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I've just been looking through the CAA figures for May and June.
MSE - Faro May 150 pax: only one flight, so 83% LF. Call it 80% to allow for media people on first flight.
MSE - Faro June 1,275 pax: 10 flights, so 71% LF
MSE - BCN May 116 pax, so 64% LF.
MSE - BCN June 661 pax, so 37% LF.
Not quite the basket case that some people are alleging. Both routes now run to and from PIK, so overall yield is up, although, of course, BCN will not run next year, but will be replaced by Alicante and Palma.
Not bad for a fixed weekly programme that was announced as late as Feb 1st.
MSE - Faro May 150 pax: only one flight, so 83% LF. Call it 80% to allow for media people on first flight.
MSE - Faro June 1,275 pax: 10 flights, so 71% LF
MSE - BCN May 116 pax, so 64% LF.
MSE - BCN June 661 pax, so 37% LF.
Not quite the basket case that some people are alleging. Both routes now run to and from PIK, so overall yield is up, although, of course, BCN will not run next year, but will be replaced by Alicante and Palma.
Not bad for a fixed weekly programme that was announced as late as Feb 1st.
Buzz off with BAF!!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by Frankfurt_Cowboy
Seriously, just how "Walter Mitty" is this thread becoming!!!!!!
I guess there's not much else to do on warm summer nights in East Kent
apart from drinking Miller Lite, and marrying your first cousin!! A bit like Southend!!
Good on ya Manston, it won't be for the want of faithful followers!
Rooting for you really!
Join Date: May 2006
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You want to know how Walter Mitty things are in Thanet? For years just about everyone in a position of authority has proclaimed that the airport will regenerate the area. Many of them seem to have genuinely believed the guff they were spouting. In truth the airport has cost the taxpayer millions. The EUjet fiasco left thousands stranded abroad, many of whom had to pay through the nose to get home. What you have is a situation where everyone whose been elected says that the airport is a good thing, but in reality it has just been a financial millstone. I know this site is frequented by people who earn their living from aviation, but you can't justify keeping an airport going with public subsidies.
It isn't just the airport they do it with. They wanted to build an art gallery in the sea, off Margate. The unwashed masses protested. "It will get washed away", they said. The great and the good pressed ahead. They weren't going to listen to silly little people, even if those people were being asked to pay for the folly. Last year they erected a test structure in the sea off Margate. It was washed away within 24 hours. The project was shelved. Unfortunately, by the time they shelved it they'd already spent 7 million pounds of taxpayers' money.
I'm all for business which makes commercial sense and has a real prospect of giving the area a lift. But what we have here is a situation where the political elite is using taxpayers' money to promote schemes that aren't viable. Manston's commercial history is one of over-optimism and failures. Rising oil prices, interest rates and vigorous competition will ensure that this continues.
It isn't just the airport they do it with. They wanted to build an art gallery in the sea, off Margate. The unwashed masses protested. "It will get washed away", they said. The great and the good pressed ahead. They weren't going to listen to silly little people, even if those people were being asked to pay for the folly. Last year they erected a test structure in the sea off Margate. It was washed away within 24 hours. The project was shelved. Unfortunately, by the time they shelved it they'd already spent 7 million pounds of taxpayers' money.
I'm all for business which makes commercial sense and has a real prospect of giving the area a lift. But what we have here is a situation where the political elite is using taxpayers' money to promote schemes that aren't viable. Manston's commercial history is one of over-optimism and failures. Rising oil prices, interest rates and vigorous competition will ensure that this continues.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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It's just not true that tax payer money is keeping the Airport going.
The owners are, and investing in it.
It's not getting any public subsidies.
I think that Thanet is a very up and coming place, a property HOT SPOT.
I see investment going on all over the area, in new roads, shops and property , I am sure the Airport will do well in time.
Turner will do wonders for Margate.
I made an investment in Thanet and so are lots of others.
..
Times change and Manston and Thanet will also, let's talk about Planes ,news
not all this doom and gloom move on .
The owners are, and investing in it.
It's not getting any public subsidies.
I think that Thanet is a very up and coming place, a property HOT SPOT.
I see investment going on all over the area, in new roads, shops and property , I am sure the Airport will do well in time.
Turner will do wonders for Margate.
I made an investment in Thanet and so are lots of others.
..
Times change and Manston and Thanet will also, let's talk about Planes ,news
not all this doom and gloom move on .
Join Date: May 2006
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"It's not getting any public subsidies."
Check your facts. Local Councils, SEEDA and KCC have all invested in the project to initiate direct flights from Manston to Virginia. Indeed, some former directors of the Wiggins group have been engaged as paid consultants to get this off the ground.
Check your facts. Local Councils, SEEDA and KCC have all invested in the project to initiate direct flights from Manston to Virginia. Indeed, some former directors of the Wiggins group have been engaged as paid consultants to get this off the ground.
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Infratil's July report for Manston-
July was KIA's strongest month since acquisition with good specialised passenger traffic and strong freight movements.
Passenger numbers for July totalled 6,417. The World Airways flight series to and from the US accounts for roughly two thirds of the total, adding to the Kent Escapes
program.
The new security measures apply equally at KIA, but have been easily applied given the low passenger throughput.
Total freight volume for July was 1,526,843kg - the airport's best performance since the seasonally high months
of October and November last year. The 13 scheduled MK flights had seasonally reduced loads (strong growing season
in the UK reduces import demand). DAS Air had 8 movements, four of which carried freight, with the others positioning for minor maintenance. EgyptAir Cargo has also now started using the Airport with single flights in the first two weeks of August.
July was KIA's strongest month since acquisition with good specialised passenger traffic and strong freight movements.
Passenger numbers for July totalled 6,417. The World Airways flight series to and from the US accounts for roughly two thirds of the total, adding to the Kent Escapes
program.
The new security measures apply equally at KIA, but have been easily applied given the low passenger throughput.
Total freight volume for July was 1,526,843kg - the airport's best performance since the seasonally high months
of October and November last year. The 13 scheduled MK flights had seasonally reduced loads (strong growing season
in the UK reduces import demand). DAS Air had 8 movements, four of which carried freight, with the others positioning for minor maintenance. EgyptAir Cargo has also now started using the Airport with single flights in the first two weeks of August.
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Somebody's wrong.
The CAA figures are
Bergerac......7....charter
Grenoble......7....charter
Rome CIA..170....FR diversion!
Verona......359...IT
Faro.........477....if this is for 8 flights Gawd help us
BCN...........86....ditto
Zurich.......105....BA diversion!
Cairo.........146....??
USA.............0....completely wrong
The CAA figures are
Bergerac......7....charter
Grenoble......7....charter
Rome CIA..170....FR diversion!
Verona......359...IT
Faro.........477....if this is for 8 flights Gawd help us
BCN...........86....ditto
Zurich.......105....BA diversion!
Cairo.........146....??
USA.............0....completely wrong
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The Cairo pax was an Army B-757 troop charter.
Looks as if the CAA have not counted the World USA flights. Rough maths calculate the difference in figures would be the USA flights. I.e 2/3rd of the total missing.
Looks as if the CAA have not counted the World USA flights. Rough maths calculate the difference in figures would be the USA flights. I.e 2/3rd of the total missing.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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jes-
where do you get these detailed provisional stats ?
They are very useful.
I fear Faro and BCN may be fairly correct. As I said before, this would correspond with my brief eyeball obs.
where do you get these detailed provisional stats ?
They are very useful.
I fear Faro and BCN may be fairly correct. As I said before, this would correspond with my brief eyeball obs.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Lets turn MSE into houses! An average mid density housing estate has 5 or 6 houses per acre- think abou how many houses that means for Thanet and that should increase the likelyhood of the government investing in the infrastructure of the area- while also providing valuable construction jobs! But then the yocals are giving out about the proposed ongoing development at Westwood Cross, so cannot see MSE housing happening.
If MSE was a no goer as an airport the government would have rezoned it as a housing area- but MSE has the potential to opperate as a regional airport, along with being an airport that could service Pax flights from countries that don't really need to fly into the over priced landing areas of STN, LGW or more importantly LHR. It also has good Cargo facilities to service the South East, the time you waste on driving from Thanet, is about the same length of time it takes to get anything out of cargo at LHR.
As I said I hope Esperia learns from mistakes that have been made in the past, by me included, which dictates what needs to be done from MSE!
BTW no airlines have been approached with real intent by Infraril, that includes FR- who have looked at MSE as a serious business in a few years time- and I am sure when Infrtril feel that the time is right for pax growth it will happen.
If MSE was a no goer as an airport the government would have rezoned it as a housing area- but MSE has the potential to opperate as a regional airport, along with being an airport that could service Pax flights from countries that don't really need to fly into the over priced landing areas of STN, LGW or more importantly LHR. It also has good Cargo facilities to service the South East, the time you waste on driving from Thanet, is about the same length of time it takes to get anything out of cargo at LHR.
As I said I hope Esperia learns from mistakes that have been made in the past, by me included, which dictates what needs to be done from MSE!
BTW no airlines have been approached with real intent by Infraril, that includes FR- who have looked at MSE as a serious business in a few years time- and I am sure when Infrtril feel that the time is right for pax growth it will happen.
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"If MSE was a no goer as an airport the government would have rezoned it as a housing area."
This is twaddle. The government doesn't own Manston. They did when it was an MoD base, and they had the option of designating it for alternative uses when the MoD sold it (in 1997). But the great and the good who live in the area around the airport decided that it would make a fabulous engine for economic regeneration of the area. Needless to say, they didn't bother checking whether this was commercially viable. When you are spending the taxpayers' dollar you don't need to bother with such piffling concerns. The government went along with it and you are now looking at the results of that decision.
Infratil can do what they like with the airport. After years of failure, nobody could argue that they have to keep it for aviation. They can simply close it down and apply for planning permission to do what they want. If the planning permission is refused they just do what all the other developers do; make a few changes and put it in again. In the end local Councils can't hold out against a determined developer because they can't afford the court costs involved.
This is twaddle. The government doesn't own Manston. They did when it was an MoD base, and they had the option of designating it for alternative uses when the MoD sold it (in 1997). But the great and the good who live in the area around the airport decided that it would make a fabulous engine for economic regeneration of the area. Needless to say, they didn't bother checking whether this was commercially viable. When you are spending the taxpayers' dollar you don't need to bother with such piffling concerns. The government went along with it and you are now looking at the results of that decision.
Infratil can do what they like with the airport. After years of failure, nobody could argue that they have to keep it for aviation. They can simply close it down and apply for planning permission to do what they want. If the planning permission is refused they just do what all the other developers do; make a few changes and put it in again. In the end local Councils can't hold out against a determined developer because they can't afford the court costs involved.
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There appears to be some big problems with PIK management at the moment including a lack of willingness to work with airlines and tour operators to secure new services. Hope this doesn't spread to MSE
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Don't forget the appalling looking figures for BCN and FAO were on split load flights with PIK, set up with rather short notice. Next year I notice that PIK will have a based AEU aircraft operating the Seguro flights, leaving MSE able to have an entire aircraft dedicated to them. They should drop the BCN though - too much competition and 86 pax is truly woeful.
As I stated before a slow steady increase seems to be the way to go, forget all your Esperia massive expansion and your FR dreams (if I were an airport operator I would try and avoid them until another carrier was set up anyway) and concentrate on a small steady charter programme for Summer 2007. After all that is how PIK restarted in the 1990s.
XSB
As I stated before a slow steady increase seems to be the way to go, forget all your Esperia massive expansion and your FR dreams (if I were an airport operator I would try and avoid them until another carrier was set up anyway) and concentrate on a small steady charter programme for Summer 2007. After all that is how PIK restarted in the 1990s.
XSB
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In a 2 seater Cessna surely one of them has to fly it!!! Thats a bit harsh, even for MSE!
Point is, having a dedicated aircraft to operate 2 charter flights p/w for example would be more beneficial for MSE in that pax would rather fly direct to and from FAO or wherever rather than go via Scotland! And given that Kent Escapes / Seguro have more time to sell seats for a peak summer programme for S07 they have more chance of filling the flights, as opposed to them being the understudy in someone else's show. You have to admit the 2006 situation is purely an Infratil political move, using their influence with Seguro to give MSE some (albeit small) pax numbers.
XSB
Point is, having a dedicated aircraft to operate 2 charter flights p/w for example would be more beneficial for MSE in that pax would rather fly direct to and from FAO or wherever rather than go via Scotland! And given that Kent Escapes / Seguro have more time to sell seats for a peak summer programme for S07 they have more chance of filling the flights, as opposed to them being the understudy in someone else's show. You have to admit the 2006 situation is purely an Infratil political move, using their influence with Seguro to give MSE some (albeit small) pax numbers.
XSB
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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Catflaps- It is called rezoning and is done in many fast growing economies all over the EU every year- case in point being Dublin where large areas of former 'farm' land, also local playing fields, parks etc etc. are being rezoned by the government to allow housing developments! Similiar things are being done in the Uk, especially now with the fast growth of the population, especially in London which will increase dramatically in terms of Eastern European construction workers coming up to 2012. It is not twaddle and just because the government doesn't own the land does not mean that they cannot rezone it for housing!! In fact Thanet is a good case for land rezoning with its road and rail links to London, good but not perfect, and also its close distance to ferry terminals etc! We are talking about two different governments- local and national! This country is filled with Governments of sorts- Local Councils, Parish councils etc etc. This can be made a national issue when it comes to rezoning land not just a local one!
Of course I am sure those of you in MAG would have a problem with that also
MSE does have the possibility to be used as an airport, if done correctly as I always state.
Infratril will develop MSE but there is no rush at the moment!
Of course I am sure those of you in MAG would have a problem with that also
MSE does have the possibility to be used as an airport, if done correctly as I always state.
Infratril will develop MSE but there is no rush at the moment!