MANSTON - 2
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I am convinced there is a disease called "Manstonitis"......
Any senior management who works there catches it, and loses the ability to tell the truth within 6 months.
August was not a "record" month for freight tonnage, as anybody who looks back over the CAA records will tell you.
Manston freight is way past its peak, and a little under 2000 metric tonnes is hardly impressive after eight f***ing years.
I also notice their "report" makes no mention of the lousy pax figures.
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Incidentally.......
I am willing to believe there are delays offloading cargo at major airports, although I suspect it is often overstated, as are LHR passenger delays.
However...
I am constrained to point out that the big airports have cargo managers who will get sacked if they lose business to places like MSE.
LHR, LGW, and STN are superbly located airports, and all they have to do to cure delays is hire a few more staff and fork lifts.
Manston, on the other hand, can do nothing to cure it's edge-of-the-world location.
I am willing to believe there are delays offloading cargo at major airports, although I suspect it is often overstated, as are LHR passenger delays.
However...
I am constrained to point out that the big airports have cargo managers who will get sacked if they lose business to places like MSE.
LHR, LGW, and STN are superbly located airports, and all they have to do to cure delays is hire a few more staff and fork lifts.
Manston, on the other hand, can do nothing to cure it's edge-of-the-world location.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
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Saying off Santa is there flights to lapland this year?
BTW Dave CAA are not always right
And Dave Im going to call you Victor as you always say Manston is a bad airport and can never work etc which is complete b*llocks James
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The major factor operating cargo flights into major airports like Lhr/Lgw is the high Landing/handling fees, so therefore much better buisness sense to utilise smaller regional airports such as East Midlands.
Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.
Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Runway Length
quote
(Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.)
What length should a runway be for decent load ?
(Manston is ok for inbound cargo loads, but runway too short for decent outbound revenue loads, so major operators will steer clear.)
What length should a runway be for decent load ?
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Undiemole-
East Midlands - yes - superb location and huge population centres.
But Manston??????
James -
As a veteran of bulletin boards I have noticed there is a certain class of member who, in the absence of facts or a decent hypothesis to back up their position, resorts to personal attacks.
You would appear to be such a person.
Disappointing.
East Midlands - yes - superb location and huge population centres.
But Manston??????
James -
As a veteran of bulletin boards I have noticed there is a certain class of member who, in the absence of facts or a decent hypothesis to back up their position, resorts to personal attacks.
You would appear to be such a person.
Disappointing.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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quote ddave
James -
As a veteran of bulletin boards I have noticed there is a certain class of member who, in the absence of facts or a decent hypothesis to back up their position, resorts to personal attacks.
You would appear to be such a person.
Disappointing.
DDAVE
I find some of the words you use pretty bad such as words starting with F and S
this is not the sort of venue for words like.
I joined this thinking I could read info about what going on at airports ect. which
is not the case, as you and others just want the airport closed.
maybe it will or maybe not, but perhaps you should find some other venue to fight your cause, and let see posting about Airports and goings on at Manston.
James -
As a veteran of bulletin boards I have noticed there is a certain class of member who, in the absence of facts or a decent hypothesis to back up their position, resorts to personal attacks.
You would appear to be such a person.
Disappointing.
DDAVE
I find some of the words you use pretty bad such as words starting with F and S
this is not the sort of venue for words like.
I joined this thinking I could read info about what going on at airports ect. which
is not the case, as you and others just want the airport closed.
maybe it will or maybe not, but perhaps you should find some other venue to fight your cause, and let see posting about Airports and goings on at Manston.
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Herne Bay-
It is fairly common practice on pprune to allude to bad language to emphasise a point, without actually using it.
Similar techniques are used in most daily papers.
I am sure that open swearing would not be allowed on pprune, and therefore people use asterisks, myself included.
I am afraid this is the everyday language of many people, and is Anglo Saxon in origin.
If you find "asterisk swearing" offensive, you must be a very sensitive soul indeed!!
Similarly, if you join a forum about a particular airport, you will find arguments on both sides, and they may not always be to your liking.
I can assure you that I personally will not stand by and allow the proliferation of innacuracies or blatant lies regarding Manston - the people of Thanet have had too much of that.
Perhaps you should form a new thread and call it-
"People saying lovely things about MSE"!!!
(incidentally, I don't recall using a rude word beginning with "s")
PS why didn't you tell James off for his "b" word?
It is fairly common practice on pprune to allude to bad language to emphasise a point, without actually using it.
Similar techniques are used in most daily papers.
I am sure that open swearing would not be allowed on pprune, and therefore people use asterisks, myself included.
I am afraid this is the everyday language of many people, and is Anglo Saxon in origin.
If you find "asterisk swearing" offensive, you must be a very sensitive soul indeed!!
Similarly, if you join a forum about a particular airport, you will find arguments on both sides, and they may not always be to your liking.
I can assure you that I personally will not stand by and allow the proliferation of innacuracies or blatant lies regarding Manston - the people of Thanet have had too much of that.
Perhaps you should form a new thread and call it-
"People saying lovely things about MSE"!!!
(incidentally, I don't recall using a rude word beginning with "s")
PS why didn't you tell James off for his "b" word?
Last edited by deedave; 28th Sep 2006 at 16:21. Reason: extra sentence
Join Date: May 2005
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calm down...
deedave
You need to calm down and let this thread return to discussion about the airport, whether for or against, as herne bay say's there is no need to start abusing other ppruners.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be free to voice it without being, shouted down by you.
Manston has it's supporters and haters and i believe you are the later.
But try to stick to the facts and not your own twisted view of them.
You mention the last 8 years, but in truth, Manston was actually taken over in September 1999, which by my crude maths, makes it 7 years.
Infratil (Infratil Airports Europe) have only been owners of the airport for just over a year and can't be blamed for what has happened in the past.
There are lots of reasons why it has failed before, which has been raked up time and time again through this forum.
Manston does have a future as a regional airport in the south east and that's not just my opinion, why else would a mulit million pound company buy it, run it and invest in it's future?
They are not the amatures of the past but a company with a proven track record in aviation globally.
I'm sure you will come back at me with some derisery comment, but i really don't care as fortunatley you don't control my life or the future business at Manston.
You need to calm down and let this thread return to discussion about the airport, whether for or against, as herne bay say's there is no need to start abusing other ppruners.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be free to voice it without being, shouted down by you.
Manston has it's supporters and haters and i believe you are the later.
But try to stick to the facts and not your own twisted view of them.
You mention the last 8 years, but in truth, Manston was actually taken over in September 1999, which by my crude maths, makes it 7 years.
Infratil (Infratil Airports Europe) have only been owners of the airport for just over a year and can't be blamed for what has happened in the past.
There are lots of reasons why it has failed before, which has been raked up time and time again through this forum.
Manston does have a future as a regional airport in the south east and that's not just my opinion, why else would a mulit million pound company buy it, run it and invest in it's future?
They are not the amatures of the past but a company with a proven track record in aviation globally.
I'm sure you will come back at me with some derisery comment, but i really don't care as fortunatley you don't control my life or the future business at Manston.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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To clarify forum policy, "asterisk swearing" is at best highly frowned upon. That sort of language is inappropriate in professional interaction.
The mods probably won't pull a poster up for a one-off but anyone who cannot seem to communicate without using them will find themselves unable to access the forum.
Bottom line, if you need to spill off some anger before posting go stand outside your home shouting obscenities, with asterisks if you prefer.
Cheers,
The Mods
The mods probably won't pull a poster up for a one-off but anyone who cannot seem to communicate without using them will find themselves unable to access the forum.
Bottom line, if you need to spill off some anger before posting go stand outside your home shouting obscenities, with asterisks if you prefer.
Cheers,
The Mods
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Mods-
Thank you for clarifying this.
blazing_air-
I have never "shouted down" other members of this board, nor have I made personal attacks.
My comments are based on facts, or viable hypotheses.
By contrast, anyone who cares to look back over this board will see that yourself, EUair and James have insulted me personally.
As it happens, I can handle any number of personal insults, but I draw attention to them because they often seem to be the last resort of the increasingly desperate "Manston fan club" when they have run out of facts to support the belief that this airport is viable.
Thank you for clarifying this.
blazing_air-
I have never "shouted down" other members of this board, nor have I made personal attacks.
My comments are based on facts, or viable hypotheses.
By contrast, anyone who cares to look back over this board will see that yourself, EUair and James have insulted me personally.
As it happens, I can handle any number of personal insults, but I draw attention to them because they often seem to be the last resort of the increasingly desperate "Manston fan club" when they have run out of facts to support the belief that this airport is viable.
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deedave's first posting on pp was on 24th July. Since then he has made 37, all on Manston - nothing else: a single issue sort of person!
He lost money on Wiggins. OK, but isn't it time to move on?
This is an aviation rumour board, not a knock your local airport one.
A few facts:
Faro flight yesterday disgorged 100+ at Manston. Three Seguro routes will run next year and are selling now.
Freight is running at 20,000 tons p.a. on a three monthly moving average
Major works are in progress to upgrade taxiway lighting and the radar
Cosmos is putting a major effort into the Norfolk flights
The airport is unwilling to take on some traffic before the infrastructure is improved: this is a 3-4 year turn-round, so there are 2-3 years left to get it making a profit
DAS has renovated the old MJSC hangar, and is awaiting CAA approval: a lot of investment there for a temporary move! All of the stores are moving down from Gatwick. Many of their flights now carry cargo, in and out. With 7 aircraft they were handling 60,000 tons a year at Gatwick. There will obviously be quite a bit of traffic for Manston with the four remaining aircraft.
Rumours
2 more freight carriers by Christmas
2 airlines to run scheduled flights next year
Esperia still unclear
New tower to be built next year
Extra hangar for TG
He lost money on Wiggins. OK, but isn't it time to move on?
This is an aviation rumour board, not a knock your local airport one.
A few facts:
Faro flight yesterday disgorged 100+ at Manston. Three Seguro routes will run next year and are selling now.
Freight is running at 20,000 tons p.a. on a three monthly moving average
Major works are in progress to upgrade taxiway lighting and the radar
Cosmos is putting a major effort into the Norfolk flights
The airport is unwilling to take on some traffic before the infrastructure is improved: this is a 3-4 year turn-round, so there are 2-3 years left to get it making a profit
DAS has renovated the old MJSC hangar, and is awaiting CAA approval: a lot of investment there for a temporary move! All of the stores are moving down from Gatwick. Many of their flights now carry cargo, in and out. With 7 aircraft they were handling 60,000 tons a year at Gatwick. There will obviously be quite a bit of traffic for Manston with the four remaining aircraft.
Rumours
2 more freight carriers by Christmas
2 airlines to run scheduled flights next year
Esperia still unclear
New tower to be built next year
Extra hangar for TG
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Frankly Jes, your reply is very welcome.
Makes a change to get some proper, detailed facts from the "fan club"
As I said before, I know nothing about freight and I look forward to checking out your information.
As for pax, based on Manston's history and my own considerable experience as a business flyer, I remain unconvinced that any future plans will succeed.
Makes a change to get some proper, detailed facts from the "fan club"
As I said before, I know nothing about freight and I look forward to checking out your information.
As for pax, based on Manston's history and my own considerable experience as a business flyer, I remain unconvinced that any future plans will succeed.
Join Date: May 2006
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You don't have to swap spit with each other to have a decent debate.
Here's how to analyze the situation. Infratil took over a year ago. Fitzgerald said that he wouldn't be surprised if it was as big as Prestwick within 5 years. A year on and how have they done? Are they on target ? What were their targets? The truth is that they didn't go public with any targets and so, you can't accuse them of failing. All you can do is look at the pathetic levels of current business and speculate about how rapid the growth is going to need to be in future years to bring them up to the size of Prestwick.
As the years go by with nothing happening we will all be able to see how unrealistic the original statements were. So it was with Wiggins and so it is with Infratil.
As for the line about wanting to get the infrastrucure in place before pursuing new business, I don't buy it. If they could get any new business they would. In any case, I can't see and new infrastructure being put in place. Same old terminal, same old runway, same old control tower.
No doubt some bright spark will pop up and tell me that great things are going to happen next year. To that I say, wake up and smell the coffee. People are booking their holidays now. If the new flights aren't being advertized they are missing the boat. Anyone who was seriously thinking of making money next year would, by now have their plans in place.
Here's how to analyze the situation. Infratil took over a year ago. Fitzgerald said that he wouldn't be surprised if it was as big as Prestwick within 5 years. A year on and how have they done? Are they on target ? What were their targets? The truth is that they didn't go public with any targets and so, you can't accuse them of failing. All you can do is look at the pathetic levels of current business and speculate about how rapid the growth is going to need to be in future years to bring them up to the size of Prestwick.
As the years go by with nothing happening we will all be able to see how unrealistic the original statements were. So it was with Wiggins and so it is with Infratil.
As for the line about wanting to get the infrastrucure in place before pursuing new business, I don't buy it. If they could get any new business they would. In any case, I can't see and new infrastructure being put in place. Same old terminal, same old runway, same old control tower.
No doubt some bright spark will pop up and tell me that great things are going to happen next year. To that I say, wake up and smell the coffee. People are booking their holidays now. If the new flights aren't being advertized they are missing the boat. Anyone who was seriously thinking of making money next year would, by now have their plans in place.
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Mmmmmmm.......................
Pathetic levels of business???
I can’t remember the last day of work that I haven’t busted a gut with all the cargo coming in.
Or do we only bother ourselves with the walking cargo??
Pathetic levels of business???
I can’t remember the last day of work that I haven’t busted a gut with all the cargo coming in.
Or do we only bother ourselves with the walking cargo??
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You say you're busting a gut with all the cargo you have coming in. As I understand it the cargo is currently running at 20,000 tonnes per annum. By my calculations that makes about 60 tonnes a day. It barely equates to one plane per day. What are you doing to be busting a gut; unloading it by hand? And what do you do for the rest of the day?
If you're feeling stressed with this pathetic amount of cargo you aren't really geared up to handle cargo, are you?
If you're feeling stressed with this pathetic amount of cargo you aren't really geared up to handle cargo, are you?
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catflaps
Sounds like you are the one busting a gut.......chill
I for one am extremley grateful for being in full employment at Manston, Infratil are in it for the long run, no one is going to wave a magic wand so it turns into Stanstead overnight, I appreciate that it's a complex matter and will take time, occaisionally I'll have a have a whinge about staffing levels and conditions, but I prefer to be an optimist and think of the future.
When the airport expands there will be a lot more residents of Thanet grateful for the employment directly and indirectly and the opportunity to travel from an airport on their doorstep.
At there moment in Thanet, there is more apathy than hostility to the airport, but again when it expands a lot of people will be more interested in looking for a job than worrying whether KCC has put any money in to it.......or what has happened in the past.
I for one am extremley grateful for being in full employment at Manston, Infratil are in it for the long run, no one is going to wave a magic wand so it turns into Stanstead overnight, I appreciate that it's a complex matter and will take time, occaisionally I'll have a have a whinge about staffing levels and conditions, but I prefer to be an optimist and think of the future.
When the airport expands there will be a lot more residents of Thanet grateful for the employment directly and indirectly and the opportunity to travel from an airport on their doorstep.
At there moment in Thanet, there is more apathy than hostility to the airport, but again when it expands a lot of people will be more interested in looking for a job than worrying whether KCC has put any money in to it.......or what has happened in the past.