ISLE OF MAN
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Nov 08 pax stats
Bad numbers always take longer to add up......
And DoT PR will be spending time composing the spin that will go with them. Expect to see phrases like "world recession", "very much better then we expected" etc.
And DoT PR will be spending time composing the spin that will go with them. Expect to see phrases like "world recession", "very much better then we expected" etc.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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In response to £200 return LPL-IOM,I compared Flybe flights on his route ex LPL 15/12 return 16/12 £220 rtn against similar flights, similar times EZY on LPL-BFS which came out at £110 rtn, seems as though Flybe are really hiking late bookings on this route.
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seems as though Flybe are really hiking late bookings on this route - known in the english speeking world as 'Rip Off' fella and what happens when theres a monieopoloy which is what the flybees have now, yessir
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So vinnym - once you have paid your £110 to easy to get from LPL to BFS how much does it then cost you to get from BFS to IOM which is where the original poster wanted to get to/from. Just my opinion but you can't compare prices to a different destination
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You simply cannot compare like for like on this.
A Dash 8Q400 has 78 seats, compared to 150 or so on an Easy A319. or 189 on a 737-800 with a Harp on the tail.
There are about 8 per day to BFS or BHD from both Easy and Ryanair, plus loads of NI flights from Manchester too.
Thus on any day, there's an awful lot of seats to fill. 15/16 December is a Monday out, Tuesday back, which is a quiet time of week, certainly on the return.
Compared to this, the 78 seats 4 times a day and that flybe often have 70+ on board at this time of year, Midweek included, means that you would be better comparing Friday Evening costs from LPL to BFS, which would probably yield differnt figures I'm sure!
When you look at a Dash with your £200 ticket, remember there's folk sat near you who paid less than £70 all in, and plenty who paid under £100 all in too, All in including all the hidden moans, probably half the plane actually.
Late bookers obviously get hit with higher fares, but remember, Ryan and Easy require a pretty much full aircraft to break even, the costs of those shiny new Airbus or Boeings is a lot higher, as is the fuel and other costs.
Thus they'll reduce fares as required to ensure they fill seats.
Flybe fly thinner routes and operate smaller regional planes that don't need to be full. They know that for part of the year, a place like the Island will NEVER fill it's aircraft. There just isn't enough people who want to travel. So, they operate smaller kit with more rotations to minimise losses on those quiet days.
On really quiet times, they drop rotations to stop flying empty. This saves a fortune. On other days, they can aim to break even on far to middling loads, and profit on busy days. Some of those Belfast-Liverpool flights go with loads as low as 40 and that is creating HUGE losses for Ryan and Easy. You get cheap fares now, but for how much longer?
With Flybe, you can pay a bit more, but they will still be here this time next year, and hopefully the next few years after as well. You can probably guess my mortgage depends on that!
However much we imagine the importance of our lovely Isle, it's a small catchment and not busy enough for a major player. However it is too busy for a little outfit that can't invest in big enough kit.
Quite frankly, the Q400 is the perfect size for the Island's trunk routes. The answer to LGW on Fridays is another rotation, or for the next year or so, overspill onto RE's LCY-IOM. They'll have plenty of seats spare anyway....
A Dash 8Q400 has 78 seats, compared to 150 or so on an Easy A319. or 189 on a 737-800 with a Harp on the tail.
There are about 8 per day to BFS or BHD from both Easy and Ryanair, plus loads of NI flights from Manchester too.
Thus on any day, there's an awful lot of seats to fill. 15/16 December is a Monday out, Tuesday back, which is a quiet time of week, certainly on the return.
Compared to this, the 78 seats 4 times a day and that flybe often have 70+ on board at this time of year, Midweek included, means that you would be better comparing Friday Evening costs from LPL to BFS, which would probably yield differnt figures I'm sure!
When you look at a Dash with your £200 ticket, remember there's folk sat near you who paid less than £70 all in, and plenty who paid under £100 all in too, All in including all the hidden moans, probably half the plane actually.
Late bookers obviously get hit with higher fares, but remember, Ryan and Easy require a pretty much full aircraft to break even, the costs of those shiny new Airbus or Boeings is a lot higher, as is the fuel and other costs.
Thus they'll reduce fares as required to ensure they fill seats.
Flybe fly thinner routes and operate smaller regional planes that don't need to be full. They know that for part of the year, a place like the Island will NEVER fill it's aircraft. There just isn't enough people who want to travel. So, they operate smaller kit with more rotations to minimise losses on those quiet days.
On really quiet times, they drop rotations to stop flying empty. This saves a fortune. On other days, they can aim to break even on far to middling loads, and profit on busy days. Some of those Belfast-Liverpool flights go with loads as low as 40 and that is creating HUGE losses for Ryan and Easy. You get cheap fares now, but for how much longer?
With Flybe, you can pay a bit more, but they will still be here this time next year, and hopefully the next few years after as well. You can probably guess my mortgage depends on that!
However much we imagine the importance of our lovely Isle, it's a small catchment and not busy enough for a major player. However it is too busy for a little outfit that can't invest in big enough kit.
Quite frankly, the Q400 is the perfect size for the Island's trunk routes. The answer to LGW on Fridays is another rotation, or for the next year or so, overspill onto RE's LCY-IOM. They'll have plenty of seats spare anyway....
Join Date: May 2007
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and once the runway extension (sorry safety) project is completed the Ronaldsway orange carpet will be laid down for bigEasy. Then BE will know what its really like to be pushed round by a bigger operator
. What goes around comes around.
. What goes around comes around.
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LGW
RE's Overflow from LGW Dash, wow the route doesnt sound too promising, all those business men and Bankers having to travel all the way from the Docklands to Gatwick to find out that there FlyBe dash is full.Only to have to head back into London to travel with Aer Arann, Poor fella's. Taking a look with Aer Arann to Dublin last minute might be a more accurate account of a route. £150 was the most expensive I could source. I bet the landing fee's in Dublin are alot more expensive than liverpool too.
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Before anyone comes shouting back.....remember this is a question which does not neccesarily require an answer.
Should islanders not be grateful for Flybe's service? Afterall when BA Connect was taken over, they carried on with the routes. They could have dropped them all together but that would have been wrong so they stayed around.
EMX then went down the pan and this too was Flybe's fault. But despite all the agro they recieved they maintained their routes and whilst frequencies may have been adjusted key routes are still available for those that need them.
Dont get me wrong if I could persuade Flybe to pull out of the IOM tomorrow I would, as I have yet to meet or speak to one single IOM resident which would entice me to visit and I think the aircraft are completely wasted there. (Such a shame as I expect the island itself is nice) But rather than slagging them off all the time could you not, for the love of god, just be happy you have air routes to the mainland?
Some airports have no commercial routes anymore, and some are going on with one or two such as Manston and Coventry. Imagine IOM without a frequent air service to LGW. If BE were not there another airline would be with fares just as high - in fact if we monitor Aer Arrans I am sure they will go up.
Should islanders not be grateful for Flybe's service? Afterall when BA Connect was taken over, they carried on with the routes. They could have dropped them all together but that would have been wrong so they stayed around.
EMX then went down the pan and this too was Flybe's fault. But despite all the agro they recieved they maintained their routes and whilst frequencies may have been adjusted key routes are still available for those that need them.
Dont get me wrong if I could persuade Flybe to pull out of the IOM tomorrow I would, as I have yet to meet or speak to one single IOM resident which would entice me to visit and I think the aircraft are completely wasted there. (Such a shame as I expect the island itself is nice) But rather than slagging them off all the time could you not, for the love of god, just be happy you have air routes to the mainland?
Some airports have no commercial routes anymore, and some are going on with one or two such as Manston and Coventry. Imagine IOM without a frequent air service to LGW. If BE were not there another airline would be with fares just as high - in fact if we monitor Aer Arrans I am sure they will go up.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Flybe.. Pricing...
Reading some of these posts One could be led to believe that it is unusual that Flybe have expensive last minute fares. Any time that I check Flybe I often see cheap lead in fares eg £1.50 or £6.50 etc but when I click it, that little dot on the chosen flight leads to a price seldom less than £50 one all in!
I personally think (correct me if necessary) that Flybe is the most expensive flight around these islands. And what's even more irritating about it is that they shout about low prices! The mind boggles!!!"
IOM have little options left Flybe run the show and even if the runway is extended EZY will not offer more than a daily rotation(assuming that they do go to IOM someday!) as the market is too tight so Flybe will continue to be the business mans choice from IOM.
Lets hope that Manx2 have a clear run without FLybe getting onto there key markets. Once upon a time we had JEA on BHD/IOM and IOM/BLK with SH6s and they packed it in. Lets hope they leave it packed in.
EI-BUD
I personally think (correct me if necessary) that Flybe is the most expensive flight around these islands. And what's even more irritating about it is that they shout about low prices! The mind boggles!!!"
IOM have little options left Flybe run the show and even if the runway is extended EZY will not offer more than a daily rotation(assuming that they do go to IOM someday!) as the market is too tight so Flybe will continue to be the business mans choice from IOM.
Lets hope that Manx2 have a clear run without FLybe getting onto there key markets. Once upon a time we had JEA on BHD/IOM and IOM/BLK with SH6s and they packed it in. Lets hope they leave it packed in.
EI-BUD
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Good call Cloud1... the basic problem goes back to summer 07 when things were very bad!! (as they were across the network). Flybe do a lot in IOM in the community (Flybe pride of Mann awards) and with their current punctuality figures improving all the time, it's about time people realised this and gave credit where it's due. For example this morning Manx2 had a 2 hour delay.... I am not trying to have a go at them but it happens to every airline...
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BE certainly had a good November according to AD. SHARP DECREASE IN PASSENGERS - BUT AHEAD OF EXPECTATION - Isle of Man Airport Website
Passenger numbers were down but load factors up niceley.
When even the minister comments on good load factors in november "........the load factors being achieved are generally very satisfactory...." there must be a big smile in Exeter
Passenger numbers were down but load factors up niceley.
When even the minister comments on good load factors in november "........the load factors being achieved are generally very satisfactory...." there must be a big smile in Exeter
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A couple of observations, based on my own experiences, on topics which still seem to be 'hot' on this thread despite being debated 'ad nauseum'.
I've flown 40+ FlyBe sectors this year, for both leisure and business, all but two involving the IOM. The only significant delay I've had was 3 hours coming back from MAN when they cancelled the penultimate flight of the day and sent the aircraft to BHD and back, before it took me home on the last flight. Otherwise, every other flight has been more or less on time. Indeed, the last three inbound sectors I've flown from LGW, LTN and BHX have all arrived over 20 minutes early (yes I know the schedules are generous). I haven't just been lucky - checking the airport website shows that this is a general trend over the last few months.
Flybe are trying to raise their profile and have started to put their name and presumably some money into the local community, but perhaps they need to be publishing and explaining these punctuality numbers more widely to try to shake off the legacy 'FlyMayBe' tag.
On the thorny question of fares, I've been to London and back over ten times this year. I've travelled via LGW, LTN and LCY and I've never paid over £100 for the round trip. Sometimes I buy singles and go to/from different airports. Often, the cost has been significantly under £100. I usually book around 6 or 7 weeks in advance, and look at different options or permutations of fares, before I press the 'confirm' button. In the early part of the year, I used VLM quite a bit, but they've lost their way completely, and I've been dependent on FlyBe, but my £100 benchmark is still achievable.
I know I'm quite lucky to be able to plan ahead and I do avoid half term, TT Week and other hot spots. I'm fortunate that I've never had an emergency where I've needed to buy a flight at really short notice, but I can't accept that the norm. to LPL is £200 or LGW is £300 and that FlyBe's adverts and lead-in prices are misleading - they are all out there, if you look and plan.
Despite the tricky economic situation, we have brand new aircraft to travel on, much of the time - not 20 year old 146's so I am one Manxie who does recognise and appreciate that Flybe are doing and pretty good job overall. Others will have bad experiences of fares, punctuality and other factors, and I sympathise, but I also want to redress the balance a little.
Overall, you'd struggle to pin point an earlier period where IOM enjoyed materially better service and frequencies on the core routes, a fares mix to suit most pockets and circumstances, within what seems to be a sustainable framework and model.
And as we say in the IOM, if you don't like it..........there's always (well when it's not too windy) a boat in the morning!
I've flown 40+ FlyBe sectors this year, for both leisure and business, all but two involving the IOM. The only significant delay I've had was 3 hours coming back from MAN when they cancelled the penultimate flight of the day and sent the aircraft to BHD and back, before it took me home on the last flight. Otherwise, every other flight has been more or less on time. Indeed, the last three inbound sectors I've flown from LGW, LTN and BHX have all arrived over 20 minutes early (yes I know the schedules are generous). I haven't just been lucky - checking the airport website shows that this is a general trend over the last few months.
Flybe are trying to raise their profile and have started to put their name and presumably some money into the local community, but perhaps they need to be publishing and explaining these punctuality numbers more widely to try to shake off the legacy 'FlyMayBe' tag.
On the thorny question of fares, I've been to London and back over ten times this year. I've travelled via LGW, LTN and LCY and I've never paid over £100 for the round trip. Sometimes I buy singles and go to/from different airports. Often, the cost has been significantly under £100. I usually book around 6 or 7 weeks in advance, and look at different options or permutations of fares, before I press the 'confirm' button. In the early part of the year, I used VLM quite a bit, but they've lost their way completely, and I've been dependent on FlyBe, but my £100 benchmark is still achievable.
I know I'm quite lucky to be able to plan ahead and I do avoid half term, TT Week and other hot spots. I'm fortunate that I've never had an emergency where I've needed to buy a flight at really short notice, but I can't accept that the norm. to LPL is £200 or LGW is £300 and that FlyBe's adverts and lead-in prices are misleading - they are all out there, if you look and plan.
Despite the tricky economic situation, we have brand new aircraft to travel on, much of the time - not 20 year old 146's so I am one Manxie who does recognise and appreciate that Flybe are doing and pretty good job overall. Others will have bad experiences of fares, punctuality and other factors, and I sympathise, but I also want to redress the balance a little.
Overall, you'd struggle to pin point an earlier period where IOM enjoyed materially better service and frequencies on the core routes, a fares mix to suit most pockets and circumstances, within what seems to be a sustainable framework and model.
And as we say in the IOM, if you don't like it..........there's always (well when it's not too windy) a boat in the morning!
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BE shoot themsevles in the foot with the way they show taxes and charges. 
If you book a £0 fare IOM LPL the taxes are £40.59. If you book an £8.89 fare the charges are £42.70 .
Coming LPL IOM the same price fares have T&C of £15.39 and £17.50.
so two £0 fares become £55+. Now theres no disputin that a return fare across for £55 is decent value -but with £16 bags and £6 card charge the cheapest inclusive ticket is now £77 but why try to bamboozul as all with T&C which are all over the place. Anyway, good to see high loads continuing
it what we need.
If you book a £0 fare IOM LPL the taxes are £40.59. If you book an £8.89 fare the charges are £42.70 .Coming LPL IOM the same price fares have T&C of £15.39 and £17.50.
so two £0 fares become £55+.
Now theres no disputin that a return fare across for £55 is decent value -but with £16 bags and £6 card charge the cheapest inclusive ticket is now £77 but why try to bamboozul as all with T&C which are all over the place. Anyway, good to see high loads continuing it what we need.
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IOM - SOU direct starts again at the start of the S09 Schedule MON, WED and FRI using an IOM based Q400 . Then a SAT service from mid May
Last edited by EMX81L; 18th Dec 2008 at 22:05. Reason: Spelling